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Lying on your cv?
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Original post by adam321
Can i lie on my cv? im just talking about pretending about having previous work experience
But your future employer may want a reference, you can lie about other things on your CV, as long as you don't get caught
Original post by PinkMobilePhone
stealing the job from a "better qualified person"? You do both realise that it doesn't actually mean that somebody with a piece of paper to wave around would be any better at the job than somebody with 14 years of practical experience? As I said, the person I am talking about has to train up the new recruits, who DO have qualifications. So I don't think it would be fair for somebody who is less skilled than him to have go the job over him in any case, even if they had that qualification.
In may aspects, actual practical experience trumps a qualification in terms of how good somebody is at something. It's just naive to assume otherwise.
In may aspects, actual practical experience trumps a qualification in terms of how good somebody is at something. It's just naive to assume otherwise.
Sorry, but based on your threads on this post I think you're missing the picture and being a bit naive.
You can't just gloss over regulatory requirements. They are there for a reason,and there are legal consequences when they are not followed. Legal consequences can mean huge financial losses for a company (with subsequent need to lay off of other workers) as well as criminal charges. If someone misrepresents themselves by claiming a qualification they don't have, and the company they work for loses money (and bear in mind, it might not be a faceless multinational corporation but a small business someone has worked for years to build up), is that fair on their employer?
You're also being very dismissive of people 'waving around bits of paper.' I personally agree with you that experience and skills count for more than qualifications- but you're doing a great disservice to those people who have taken the time, paid the money, and made the sacrifices needed to actually get those qualifications. They're not all going to be graduates funded up to the eyeballs by the bank of mum and dad. Some are going to have slaved away at night school earning those qualifications despite raising families and working a 9-5. Your friend, by claiming they have a qualification they actually don't have, is essentially cheating on those people. They are misrepresenting themselves which means that the hiring decision was made on the basis of false information- this is patently unfair. While I can understand the reasons for doing it (I have been unemployed myself), that doesn't mean I approve.
There is no automatic right to employment. Employers are able to hire whomever they like based on whatever criteria they like. If an employer specifies that they want someone with a degree over someone with 14 years experience, we might (rightly) think them foolish and disagree with their hiring policy- but it is not for us to decide what HR practices work best for them. The employer has the right to decide (within the law) who they want for the job and the least they can expect of candidates is to sell themselves honestly.
Again, it is fine to 'big up' certain achievements or draw a prospective employer's attention towards those aspects of your CV you want them to pay more notice to, but flat-out lying is dishonest and unfair on all those other candidates who are representing themselves fairly and in an honest way.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by PinkMobilePhone
stealing the job from a "better qualified person"? You do both realise that it doesn't actually mean that somebody with a piece of paper to wave around would be any better at the job than somebody with 14 years of practical experience? As I said, the person I am talking about has to train up the new recruits, who DO have qualifications. So I don't think it would be fair for somebody who is less skilled than him to have go the job over him in any case, even if they had that qualification.
In may aspects, actual practical experience trumps a qualification in terms of how good somebody is at something. It's just naive to assume otherwise.
In may aspects, actual practical experience trumps a qualification in terms of how good somebody is at something. It's just naive to assume otherwise.
What about the people that had plenty of experience and also took the time and effort to get the necessary qualifications too? How is that far to them? You are also totally ignoring us when we say that sometimes qualifications are a regulatory/legal necessity.
Also, consider the following scenario. This isn't made up, this used to happen every few months when I worked for a pharmaceutical company. The boss comes in, says to everyone "Hi all, we're updating our training matrices and records, can everyone please send me a photocopy of their XYZ certifications by the end of the week". What then? Do you lie further and forge a qualification? Or do you 'fess up? Either way, it's not going to go well for you. That will be instant dismissal, and career in tatters.
Original post by Revd. Mike
What about the people that had plenty of experience and also took the time and effort to get the necessary qualifications too? How is that far to them? You are also totally ignoring us when we say that sometimes qualifications are a regulatory/legal necessity.
Also, consider the following scenario. This isn't made up, this used to happen every few months when I worked for a pharmaceutical company. The boss comes in, says to everyone "Hi all, we're updating our training matrices and records, can everyone please send me a photocopy of their XYZ certifications by the end of the week". What then? Do you lie further and forge a qualification? Or do you 'fess up? Either way, it's not going to go well for you. That will be instant dismissal, and career in tatters.
Also, consider the following scenario. This isn't made up, this used to happen every few months when I worked for a pharmaceutical company. The boss comes in, says to everyone "Hi all, we're updating our training matrices and records, can everyone please send me a photocopy of their XYZ certifications by the end of the week". What then? Do you lie further and forge a qualification? Or do you 'fess up? Either way, it's not going to go well for you. That will be instant dismissal, and career in tatters.
working for a pharmaceutical company is a little different. Anything to do with medicines is pretty major stuff. As I said (several times now) I wouldn't advocate somebody claiming to be a doctor if they aren't. I would have thought that it was obvious then that I would class anything pharmaceutical to be relatively similar.
It entirely depends on the job.
Original post by PinkMobilePhone
Which would you say was preferable? Somebody being unable to find a job, and I do mean unable, as in they have been turned down for over 200 jobs, simply because they do not possess a piece of paper, therefore forcing them to stay on the dole claiming taxpayer's money...
...or somebody who has the necessary skillset to do a job, therefore states on their CV that they have a piece of paper which they do not actually possess (knowing full well that they have the actual skills to do the work), who then becomes a working tax paying member of the community?
Yes it might not be the best thing in the world, it's obviously far preferable to get a job without resorting to lying on a CV, but sometimes needs must.
...or somebody who has the necessary skillset to do a job, therefore states on their CV that they have a piece of paper which they do not actually possess (knowing full well that they have the actual skills to do the work), who then becomes a working tax paying member of the community?
Yes it might not be the best thing in the world, it's obviously far preferable to get a job without resorting to lying on a CV, but sometimes needs must.
the right thing to do would be to go and get the piece of paper which should be fairly easy for someone who already has the skills.
my dad for example is not technically qualified to do what he has been doing for the past 20 years so although hes fine working where he is he couldn't get the same type of job again somewhere else. (which is a big problem as the company is basically collapsing) hes never thought "I should just lie and say I have the degree" and noone has suggested he should instead he's going to get it starting in september.
Original post by PinkMobilePhone
working for a pharmaceutical company is a little different. Anything to do with medicines is pretty major stuff. As I said (several times now) I wouldn't advocate somebody claiming to be a doctor if they aren't. I would have thought that it was obvious then that I would class anything pharmaceutical to be relatively similar.
It entirely depends on the job.
It entirely depends on the job.
That was an example, but it's not confined to the pharma industry. A friend of mine is an IT/tech guy and has to provide evidence of his certifications yearly. Nice way to side step my point, by the way
Original post by Revd. Mike
That was an example, but it's not confined to the pharma industry. A friend of mine is an IT/tech guy and has to provide evidence of his certifications yearly. Nice way to side step my point, by the way
I didn't side-step anything.
I've honestly had enough of discussing this now, we're going round in circles. I get what you're saying, likewise you understand what I'm saying. I don't find it terribly objectionable, you evidently do, that's about the long and short of it really. Can we drop it now? I'm just constantly repeating myself, as are you.
Original post by boba
the right thing to do would be to go and get the piece of paper which should be fairly easy for someone who already has the skills.
my dad for example is not technically qualified to do what he has been doing for the past 20 years so although hes fine working where he is he couldn't get the same type of job again somewhere else. (which is a big problem as the company is basically collapsing) hes never thought "I should just lie and say I have the degree" and noone has suggested he should instead he's going to get it starting in september.
my dad for example is not technically qualified to do what he has been doing for the past 20 years so although hes fine working where he is he couldn't get the same type of job again somewhere else. (which is a big problem as the company is basically collapsing) hes never thought "I should just lie and say I have the degree" and noone has suggested he should instead he's going to get it starting in september.
I'm glad your dad has the funds necessary to complete the qualification. However many people who are unemployed would find it next to impossible to pay fees to be able to take the relevant course (in whichever field it happens to be in).
Original post by PinkMobilePhone
I'm glad your dad has the funds necessary to complete the qualification. However many people who are unemployed would find it next to impossible to pay fees to be able to take the relevant course (in whichever field it happens to be in).
my dad has no funds to complete a course and anyone who goes to uni would get a tuition loan. if it is not a uni course the person can apply for a career development loan. or if it is at a local college often the fee is waved for those on benefits.
my entire family would have to be living on what he collects in student finance unless my mum can find a job, which even if she can is likely to be minimum wage. which of course they couldn't do so would have to be living on credit and building up debt.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by PinkMobilePhone
I didn't side-step anything.
I've honestly had enough of discussing this now, we're going round in circles. I get what you're saying, likewise you understand what I'm saying. I don't find it terribly objectionable, you evidently do, that's about the long and short of it really. Can we drop it now? I'm just constantly repeating myself, as are you.
I've honestly had enough of discussing this now, we're going round in circles. I get what you're saying, likewise you understand what I'm saying. I don't find it terribly objectionable, you evidently do, that's about the long and short of it really. Can we drop it now? I'm just constantly repeating myself, as are you.
Well, you didn't address my point. What happens if/when the boss says he needs to see a copy of his certification (a realistic scenario, it happens in all industries often enough) and the person that lied on their CV can't produce it? They get instantly dismissed. Their future career is ruined because they'll never have a decent reference again.
Whether it's objectionable or not, it's clearly not a sensible thing to do.
Original post by Revd. Mike
Well, you didn't address my point. What happens if/when the boss says he needs to see a copy of his certification (a realistic scenario, it happens in all industries often enough) and the person that lied on their CV can't produce it? They get instantly dismissed. Their future career is ruined because they'll never have a decent reference again.
Whether it's objectionable or not, it's clearly not a sensible thing to do.
Whether it's objectionable or not, it's clearly not a sensible thing to do.
okay. Point taken. The OP shouldn't lie on his CV.
It's amazing some people think it is okay to lie on your CV....presumably these are the same kind of scumbags who would make a career out of benefit scrounging as well?
What many seem to miss, a CV doesn't get you a job, it nets you an interview.
Lying with regard to grades, there are 11 different services in UK alone at bare minimum to check whether or not you are fibbing on the academic part of your CV. Some even hold a record on whether you've submitted a CV before that is inconsistent with your academic record. It only cost an employer less than £10 to run a quick one on you.
With regards to your work experience, lying on it is a pointless exercise, it is even easier to check whether it's a fib or not and even easier still is to check the circumstances in which you quit from your last job.
Now it may be the case that they discover the fib after you've been hired and they may very well not do anything about it, sometimes they may even start looking into it after they find out that you are a crap employee, the consequences could be criminal prosecution, but more often than not you would find that in years to come any job you apply to would get binned as the employer may have reported it to one of the CV checking services and even if your current CVs are legit, it would still bear a mark that you've lied on a CV previously.
End of the day, why lie and make yourself something you're not, bull**** may get you a job but it certainly won't keep you there..... it is better to not have a job than to have one that you can't do and then be sacked from it.
What many seem to miss, a CV doesn't get you a job, it nets you an interview.
Lying with regard to grades, there are 11 different services in UK alone at bare minimum to check whether or not you are fibbing on the academic part of your CV. Some even hold a record on whether you've submitted a CV before that is inconsistent with your academic record. It only cost an employer less than £10 to run a quick one on you.
With regards to your work experience, lying on it is a pointless exercise, it is even easier to check whether it's a fib or not and even easier still is to check the circumstances in which you quit from your last job.
Now it may be the case that they discover the fib after you've been hired and they may very well not do anything about it, sometimes they may even start looking into it after they find out that you are a crap employee, the consequences could be criminal prosecution, but more often than not you would find that in years to come any job you apply to would get binned as the employer may have reported it to one of the CV checking services and even if your current CVs are legit, it would still bear a mark that you've lied on a CV previously.
End of the day, why lie and make yourself something you're not, bull**** may get you a job but it certainly won't keep you there..... it is better to not have a job than to have one that you can't do and then be sacked from it.
ive lied an made fake refrences tooo
Original post by umarrehman187
ive lied an made fake refrences tooo
SCUM! To the depths of hell with you!
Seriously though, hope your boss is a TSR regular
I know plenty of people who lied in their CV but got away with it...how you wonder? Basically their uncle had a business and they asked him to say that they worked there for 3 months. Then they just put Sales Assistant at his business for 3 months on the CV and they know they could get a reference because its their relative.
Original post by Revd. Mike
Well, you didn't address my point. What happens if/when the boss says he needs to see a copy of his certification (a realistic scenario, it happens in all industries often enough) and the person that lied on their CV can't produce it? They get instantly dismissed. Their future career is ruined because they'll never have a decent reference again.
Whether it's objectionable or not, it's clearly not a sensible thing to do.
Whether it's objectionable or not, it's clearly not a sensible thing to do.
Sorry I havent followed this little argument youve got going on but how can you say they will never have a decent reference again? If they get employed by someone else and tell the truth (or dont get caught) then they can get a decent reference and their future career isnt ruined
Original post by TheSownRose
Many people with degrees have experience as a CEO.
By no stretch of the imagination does your average graduate get that far up the ladder!
Original post by Luxray
Sorry I havent followed this little argument youve got going on but how can you say they will never have a decent reference again? If they get employed by someone else and tell the truth (or dont get caught) then they can get a decent reference and their future career isnt ruined
Ok, I was exaggerating a bit, but it's not entirely unreasonable. If you lie on your CV (especially if it's something fairly major like PinkMobilePhone was suggesting, i.e. claiming to have professional qualifications that you do not) and your employer finds out, that's grounds for instant dismissal. It's already hard enough to find a new job after being dismissed, doubly so when any reference from that employer is going to say that you attained the job fraudulently and were summarily dismissed for that. The best option would be to omit that job from your CV entirely, which leaves unexplained gaps in employment which potential employers don't like to see.
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