Master at Cambridge vs PhD at UCL?

Original post by to_ni

Hallo!

I am new here and really need your honest opinion. I am a recent graduate from Switzerland and was wondering about the following...

Do you think it´s dumb to turn down a fully funded PhD at UCL for a fees-only funded Master at Cambridge. I am coming from a science related field (Physics/Chemistry).

I would really appreciate your help. BTW what would you choose to do?

Regards toni

What do you want this qualification to lead to? I think the money is secondary to the more important questions, which are "What do you want to do, and will a Masters or PhD be more use in achieving this objective?"

Reply 2

OP

hi Cora Lindsay

thanks for your answer.

My main goal is to do a PhD and afterwards I am not sure yet. I want to stay in (academic or industrial) research, I also could see myself in a technological management position sometime in the future. However, I love my subject and definitely want to do a PhD at first.
I failed to acquire funding for my offered PhD position at Cambridge University and hence I got offered the one year lasting Master´s position.

I was wondering whether the Master´s at Cambridge would help me to gain a PhD place at another top University like the MIT (in the US) or even to carry on with one at Cambridge.The ETH Zürich in my home country is also a nice option but I just want to study anywhere abroad. I really enjoy new countries and new people.

Regards toni

Reply 3

Original post by to_ni

hi Cora Lindsay

thanks for your answer.

My main goal is to do a PhD and afterwards I am not sure yet. I want to stay in (academic or industrial) research, I also could see myself in a technological management position sometime in the future. However, I love my subject and definitely want to do a PhD at first.
I failed to acquire funding for my offered PhD position at Cambridge University and hence I got offered the one year lasting Master´s position.

I was wondering whether the Master´s at Cambridge would help me to gain a PhD place at another top University like the MIT (in the US) or even to carry on with one at Cambridge.The ETH Zürich in my home country is also a nice option but I just want to study anywhere abroad. I really enjoy new countries and new people.

Regards toni

If you see yourself going into research then you probably do need a PhD, and the topic of your PhD is really important. You need to find something you're interested in and a supervisor who's truly expert in the subject, rather than chase a 'top university'. PhDs are hard work, and if you are not genuinely interested in the subject, you'll probably not stick it out.

PhD funding in Cambridge, MIT or UCL (or pretty much anywhere) is going to be very competitive, and I am not sure that a Cambridge Masters will necessarily give you much edge. I assess PhD applicants on the basis of the whole package, not just paper qualifications so, on the basis of the little you've told me, I am not convinced of its value.

If the UCL PhD is in an area which interests you, then I think go for it. UCL is hardly a poor university.

Reply 4

OP

Maybe I should explain to you that, in contrast to just chasing a top university, the PhD project at Cam was a 100% what I am interested in (alternative energies). The one at UCL is also very interesting but to be honest it´s quite specific (let´s say esoteric :smile:

in my field because just a few groups around the world are working on it) and I don´t know what to do with it afterwards (job prospects) because there aren´t many institutions which are working on that kind of research/industry

I was hoping to ask my supervisor at Cam to defer the PhD offer so that I am able to apply for the necessary funding after the Master´s again. The thing is I applied pretty late this year and most deadlines for funding possibilities were already over. Thus, I was only able to apply for 2 very competitive scholarships and unfortunately I was unsuccessful... I was hoping that I could make the PhD happen by deferring the offer for the thrilling PhD project and doing very well at the Master´s. Beside the fact that Cam is number one in my field I really want to work on that project. It´s perfect for me...

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 5

Original post by to_ni

Maybe I should explain to you that, in contrast to just chasing a top university, the PhD project at Cam was a 100% what I am interested in (alternative energies). The one at UCL is also very interesting but to be honest it´s quite specific (let´s say esoteric :smile:

in my field because just a few groups around the world are working on it) and I don´t know what to do with it afterwards (job prospects) because there aren´t many institutions which are working on that kind of research/industry

I was hoping to ask my supervisor at Cam to defer the PhD offer so that I am able to apply for the necessary funding after the Master´s again. The thing is I applied pretty late this year and most deadlines for funding possibilities were already over. Thus, I was only able to apply for 2 very competitive scholarships and unfortunately I was unsuccessful... I was hoping that I could make the PhD happen by deferring the offer for the thrilling PhD project and doing very well at the Master´s. Beside the fact that Cam is number one in my field I really want to work on that project. It´s perfect for me...

Ah. I see your problem. Why don't you find out if the Cambridge supervisor can actually postpone by a year, and also ask for an honest appraisal of your chances. If they say you'll just be one of 100 applicants, or they say "You'd be absolutely ideal and if you applied we wouldn't really want anyone else" then that ought to give you a feel for how likely you are to get the Cambridge place. If they won't postpone, it's all irrelevant.

But if it's at all a realistic prospect and the Cambridge PhD is the one you want, then go for it.

Reply 6

History98

15

Original post by to_ni

Maybe I should explain to you that, in contrast to just chasing a top university, the PhD project at Cam was a 100% what I am interested in (alternative energies). The one at UCL is also very interesting but to be honest it´s quite specific (let´s say esoteric :smile:

in my field because just a few groups around the world are working on it) and I don´t know what to do with it afterwards (job prospects) because there aren´t many institutions which are working on that kind of research/industry

I was hoping to ask my supervisor at Cam to defer the PhD offer so that I am able to apply for the necessary funding after the Master´s again. The thing is I applied pretty late this year and most deadlines for funding possibilities were already over. Thus, I was only able to apply for 2 very competitive scholarships and unfortunately I was unsuccessful... I was hoping that I could make the PhD happen by deferring the offer for the thrilling PhD project and doing very well at the Master´s. Beside the fact that Cam is number one in my field I really want to work on that project. It´s perfect for me...

I'm far from being a postgrad student but I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway

Why would you want to waste valuable time by going to Cambridge? Even if you were able to get admitted to their PhD program you would finish a year later than you would have and thus lose a year's worth of earnings ( thats on top of the £10 000 you used to support yourself during your masters ).As for the MIT option, if you want to go the USA go NOW!!!!! A PhD over there will take you 5 years ( even if you come with a masters ) so the opportunity cost will be massive.

Reply 7

OP

Hey, thanks for your thoughts.

The problem with the USA option is that I was pretty late with my applications and the US closes its admissions one year before the start of term, right?
And with regards to the earnings argument. Don´t you think that a degree from cambridge would give me better prospects? During my last talk with my proposed supervisor at Cam (he told me that my funding application was unsuccessful :frown:

) I told him about the UCL offer and he said that it´s a top institution and a nice alternative to have, but that I might want to consider that he graduated from Imperial and that nobody outside of the UK knew about it. Cambridge on the other side opens doors according to him. I mean, that´s horrible... I think ICL is such a top institution!!!! Why is he saying that if it isn´t at least partially true???

Regards toni

Reply 8

Presenttime

I would go for UCL because of the funding, which is so hard to come by !

Reply 9

Krazula

if it's something you want to do I would grab UCL asap! PHD funding is rare. Don't pick Cambridge for the name, UCL is a top top university, (as I am sure you are aware :biggrin:

)

Reply 10

Original post by to_ni

I told him about the UCL offer and he said that it´s a top institution and a nice alternative to have, but that I might want to consider that he graduated from Imperial and that nobody outside of the UK knew about it. Cambridge on the other side opens doors according to him. I mean, that´s horrible... I think ICL is such a top institution!!!! Why is he saying that if it isn´t at least partially true???

It depends on the field, and on what you want to do. In my particular area of interest, which is a specialist area of energy-related research, Oxford and Cambridge are insignificant players. Potential employers in the area know this and it's Leeds, Imperial, Sheffield, Manchester which 'open doors' around the world. For non-specialist employment there's no doubt that Oxford and Cambridge would have considerably more general recognition.

So if you want to be ~~a parasite~~ an investment banker, or go into a think tank, Oxbridge will have more recognition, but that isn't to say that nobody's heard of Imperial or UCL.

He might be saying this because he actually wants you to work with him, but the question is whether he wants you sufficiently to do everything he can to get you a PhD place. Alternatively, people do sometimes say that Oxbridge are guilty of unjustified arrogance. You need to make that judgement.

Reply 11

OP

Hey guys,

I talked to my proposed supervisor at Cam in the interim and he said that, although it´s not possible to defer my offer for one academy year, he would definitely look at my application favorably in the next year as well. Moreover, he said an additional Masters is definitely good, especially with the address of Cambridge on it. I really feel like he thinks that Cambridge will offer me far more doors than UCL. As I already mentioned he told me that outside the UK Imperial as well as UCL seem to have no value because nobody knows the name. Like...You did your PhD at UCL? Isn´t that the University in the US (UCLA). Next, he told me that if I want to work in industry as an industrial researcher, they would look favorably at an Cambridge graduate. Even if it´s only a Master´s from CAM and the PhD lets say from Germany. At the end of the day I have a degree from Cam. That´s exactly what he told me....

What do you guys think?

With the professor telling me such stuff I am really afraid that I will miss out a great chance if I am not going to Cambridge. I feel torn.
Regards,

toni

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 12

gutenberg

14

Original post by to_ni

Hey guys,

I talked to my proposed supervisor at Cam in the interim and he said that, although it´s not possible to defer my offer for one academy year, he would definitely look at my application favorably in the next year as well. Moreover, he said an additional Masters is definitely good, especially with the address of Cambridge on it. I really feel like he thinks that Cambridge will offer me far more doors than UCL. As I already mentioned he told me that outside the UK Imperial as well as UCL seem to have no value because nobody knows the name. Like...You did your PhD at UCL? Isn´t that the University in the US (UCLA). Next, he told me that if I want to work in industry as an industrial researcher, they would look favorably at an Cambridge graduate. Even if it´s only a Master´s from CAM and the PhD lets say from Germany. At the end of the day I have a degree from Cam. That´s exactly what he told me....

What do you guys think?

With the professor telling me such stuff I am really afraid that I will miss out a great chance if I am not going to Cambridge. I feel torn.
Regards,

toni

That is a massive and just plain wrong generalisation I feel. I did my undergrad at a university that is much lower ranked than either UCL and Imperial yet it is very well-known outside my country; I cannot imagine then that universities of the calibre of UCL and Imperial would have 'no value'.

I was always told by my advisers, 'follow the money'. Getting funding is so important, and to get it at as great a university as UCL is very fortunate indeed.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 13

OP

Original post by gutenberg

That is a massive and just plain wrong generalisation I feel. I did my undergrad at a university that is much lower ranked than either UCL and Imperial yet it is very well-known outside my country; I cannot imagine then that universities of the calibre of UCL and Imperial would have 'no value'.

I was always told by my advisers, 'follow the money'. Getting funding is so important, and to get it at as great a university as UCL is very fortunate indeed.

Thanks for your answer. Maybe you can help me with the following as well.
I really like my topic at UCL but it´s, let´s say, kind of exotic in my field (it involves surface physics/nanotechnology/collagen based materials and mainly their characterization) and I really don´t know what to do with it afterwards. Especially if going to work in industry.
Should I do it anyway.

Regards,

Toni

Reply 14

gutenberg

14

I'm not a physicist so I can't really say anything about the project, sorry :redface:

If the topic is a bit quirky, will it maybe make you stand out a bit more from other people with physics PhDs? And from my VERY limited knowledge, isn't nanotechnology quite an important and growing field in physics/technology? Could be something to bear in mind.

Reply 15

Ghost6

7

Original post by to_ni

Hallo!
Do you think it´s dumb to turn down a fully funded PhD at UCL for a fees-only funded Master at Cambridge. I am coming from a science related field (Physics/Chemistry).
i

If you are sure you want to do a PhD, and think you have been "taught" enough and don't want/need a master's, then go for the PhD, because the best way to prepare for a PhD is to do a PhD.

Now a "free" master's from Cambridge is an excellent option too, and if this is a one-year program, then essentially the cost is only that of "maintenance", which amounts to roughly £8,500 according to university figures, and colleges often give partial grants for cases like the present one (which is essentially mine too). If you are still unsure about a PhD, or the particular PhD you have been offered at UCL, then the Cambridge master's will definitely strengthen your profile and it is quite safe to say that you will have more funded PhD offers next year.

Reply 16

gutenberg

14

Original post by Ghost6

If you are sure you want to do a PhD, and think you have been "taught" enough and don't want/need a master's, then go for the PhD, because the best way to prepare for a PhD is to do a PhD.

Now a "free" master's from Cambridge is an excellent option too, and if this is a one-year program, then essentially the cost is only that of "maintenance", which amounts to roughly £8,500 according to university figures, and colleges often give partial grants for cases like the present one (which is essentially mine too). If you are still unsure about a PhD, or the particular PhD you have been offered at UCL, then the Cambridge master's will definitely strengthen your profile and it is quite safe to say that you will have more funded PhD offers next year.

This is by no means definite. I know plenty of people who were on funded Master's in Cambridge who didn't get any PhD funding. There is a lot less money going around unfortunately. I do agree with you though that if the OP is confident that they do want to do a PhD, they should just get on with it, especially as they have the finance in place.

Reply 17