Post arguments against vegetarianism/veganism, please!
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Something called the Food Chain. We're at the top of it.
Predator's killing pray for food is a simple part of nature. Hunting as a 'sport' is the real ****ty thing to do.
Predator's killing pray for food is a simple part of nature. Hunting as a 'sport' is the real ****ty thing to do.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Cannotbelieveit
Something called the Food Chain. We're at the top of it.
Predator's killing pray for food is a simple part of nature. Hunting as a 'sport' is the real ****ty thing to do.
Predator's killing pray for food is a simple part of nature. Hunting as a 'sport' is the real ****ty thing to do.
That's really nonsense. Do you think if all animals were given a decent life before they were killed, there would be so many vegetarians?
It's all well and good saying we're top of the food chain but that isn't the point. The point is we kill many more animals than we need to, they live terrible lives, young calves are torn away from their mothers at birth which is obviously massively stressful etc etc.
Original post by navyspaces
Very idealistic - they won't live free, as that simply isn't the current situation in the world.
So, back to my original posing of the question - assuming the current state of fairs, should we carry on farming them (continuing to breed them, and have life...) or not farm them, and millions upon millions would never be born?
I think it's a difficult position for someone to say "I will not allow these creatures to ever exist, as I judge it better for them to never live than live the life they would". Have you not seen Chicken Run?
So, back to my original posing of the question - assuming the current state of fairs, should we carry on farming them (continuing to breed them, and have life...) or not farm them, and millions upon millions would never be born?
I think it's a difficult position for someone to say "I will not allow these creatures to ever exist, as I judge it better for them to never live than live the life they would". Have you not seen Chicken Run?
Sorry, I skim read what you said but... is your point that... it is better to live in a tiny cage, covered in ****, until you're carted off and shot in the head, than never to live at all?
Original post by Brit_Miller
I thought so, just making sure! Going to say, I totally agree!
Good that is sorted!
I had only quoted one line from your post because I was expanding on that point, but I should add that I totally agree with the comment you had made earlier.
If anyone feels it is wrong to eat meat, it is now easier than it has ever been in this country to be a vegan or vegetarian.
Look at episode 4 of 'Borgen' on iplayer (BBC 4 Saturday, 23rd November 10.00 to 11.00 pm) to see how pigs are treated in today's industrial agriculture.
Original post by Maths Tutor
...
Haven't been able to go completely vegan. Given up milk, but still eat eggs and cheese. A lot of the vegetarian alternatives contain egg, so it's pretty hard going eating decent tasting vegan meals on a tight budget.
Original post by Jjj90
Sorry, I skim read what you said but... is your point that... it is better to live in a tiny cage, covered in ****, until you're carted off and shot in the head, than never to live at all?
Sorry, I skim read what you said but... is your point that... it is better to live in a tiny cage, covered in ****, until you're carted off and shot in the head, than never to live at all?
You're referring to specific cases, which is different to eating meat in general. I disagree wholeheartedly with battery farming etc (though conceivably some people would say that yes, better to live in a cage). Free range farming and similar, I believe, are defensible.
Original post by Ralph Lauren
The first argument refers to God. Is there proof that a god exists?
Why is something wrong if it perverts nature? Why does being designed to eat meat, when we can live healthily by adopting alternatives, make it morally acceptable to kill creatures that obviously want to continue living?
Why is something wrong if it perverts nature? Why does being designed to eat meat, when we can live healthily by adopting alternatives, make it morally acceptable to kill creatures that obviously want to continue living?
Evidence that they want to keep living pls.
Did a cow speak to you and plead with you not to eat it?
So in your opinion beastiality is right?
Why Is it morally acceptable to destroy the earth in looking for oil, when we can live healthily and happily with out oil?
Answer: because it's our choice.
Meat is abundant, healthy in moderation and most importantly, nice.
Other animals would have no issues eating us, so why should we not eat them?
Original post by goldenfish
Evidence that they want to keep living pls.
Did a cow speak to you and plead with you not to eat it?
So in your opinion beastiality is right?
Why Is it morally acceptable to destroy the earth in looking for oil, when we can live healthily and happily with out oil?
Answer: because it's our choice.
Meat is abundant, healthy in moderation and most importantly, nice.
Other animals would have no issues eating us, so why should we not eat them?
Did a cow speak to you and plead with you not to eat it?
So in your opinion beastiality is right?
Why Is it morally acceptable to destroy the earth in looking for oil, when we can live healthily and happily with out oil?
Answer: because it's our choice.
Meat is abundant, healthy in moderation and most importantly, nice.
Other animals would have no issues eating us, so why should we not eat them?
Evidence they want to keep living? They are animals! Animals whose purpose is to survive and breed!
...how does anything he say relate to raping animals? Bizarre connection you've made.
I haven't met a single vegan who supports the oil industry.
Healthy? Right, so, the fact it's been linked to causing several cancers, heart problems and death are just jokes?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/13/health/research/red-meat-linked-to-cancer-and-heart-disease.html?_r=0
Even small amounts are significant.
Also, meat is abundant because we made it so, perverting the growth of many animals. There are chickens who can't support their own bodies. This is not natural.
Maybe because we can think for ourselves? Maybe because we won't starve to death if we don't? Maybe we aren't okay with inflicting a life of pain onto other creatures? Maybe what sets us apart from other animals is our intelligence and not using that means what the **** are we good for?
Original post by Brit_Miller
Haven't been able to go completely vegan. Given up milk, but still eat eggs and cheese. A lot of the vegetarian alternatives contain egg, so it's pretty hard going eating decent tasting vegan meals on a tight budget.
Going vegan needs more of a commitment but at least becoming a vegetarian means directly one is now only responsible for the bad treatment and killing of cows* instead of the whole lot - pigs, sheep, hens, fish etc., etc, etc.
Regarding milk* and cheese, cheese uses loads of milk so in that sense my view is giving up cheese should perhaps come before giving up milk.
(* The cruelty with milk is the killing of male calves immediately and the killing of dairy cows the moment they are no longer any use as if they were machines.)
Regarding eggs, most foods are now marked if they are 'suitable for vegetarians'. In addition, they mention if eggs are included for the purpose of allergies. So at least it is possible to know.
Most Indian vegetarian foods, if not all, exclude eggs. There are quite a lot available in the big supermarkets these days. Hindus have been vegetarians for thousands of years and shown a great respect for cows!
Original post by Maths Tutor
Going vegan needs more of a commitment but at least becoming a vegetarian means directly one is now only responsible for the bad treatment and killing of cows* instead of the whole lot - pigs, sheep, hens, fish etc., etc, etc.
Regarding milk* and cheese, cheese uses loads of milk so in that sense my view is giving up cheese should perhaps come before giving up milk.
(* The cruelty with milk is the killing of male calves immediately and the killing of dairy cows the moment they are no longer any use as if they were machines.)
Regarding eggs, most foods are now marked if they are 'suitable for vegetarians'. In addition, they mention if eggs are included for the purpose of allergies. So at least it is possible to know.
Most Indian vegetarian foods, if not all, exclude eggs. There are quite a lot available in the big supermarkets these days. Hindus have been vegetarians for thousands of years and shown a great respect for cows!
Regarding milk* and cheese, cheese uses loads of milk so in that sense my view is giving up cheese should perhaps come before giving up milk.
(* The cruelty with milk is the killing of male calves immediately and the killing of dairy cows the moment they are no longer any use as if they were machines.)
Regarding eggs, most foods are now marked if they are 'suitable for vegetarians'. In addition, they mention if eggs are included for the purpose of allergies. So at least it is possible to know.
Most Indian vegetarian foods, if not all, exclude eggs. There are quite a lot available in the big supermarkets these days. Hindus have been vegetarians for thousands of years and shown a great respect for cows!
Yeah I've watched a fair bit of animal welfare - the dairy industry is just as bad. I will give it all up eventually, I just need to find a good mix of recipes to use. There's even fake cheese now too, but I can't imagine it's too tasty!
Original post by Brit_Miller
Yeah I've watched a fair bit of animal welfare - the dairy industry is just as bad. I will give it all up eventually, I just need to find a good mix of recipes to use. There's even fake cheese now too, but I can't imagine it's too tasty!
There's some Tesco Freefrom cheeses that I eat which are lovely melted!
Original post by wannabeastronaut
There's some Tesco Freefrom cheeses that I eat which are lovely melted!
I didn't realise they were vegan to be honest; I thought they were lactose free. I'll give it a go if it's vegan!
Original post by Brit_Miller
I didn't realise they were vegan to be honest; I thought they were lactose free. I'll give it a go if it's vegan!
Yeah, some of their Free from things are not actually vegan, but the cheese is. Apparently they're made by Isle of Bute Foods who specialise in vegan cheese
Definitely only recommend eating it melted though! Don't even attempt it plain...
Original post by wannabeastronaut
Yeah, some of their Free from things are not actually vegan, but the cheese is. Apparently they're made by Isle of Bute Foods who specialise in vegan cheese
Definitely only recommend eating it melted though! Don't even attempt it plain...
Definitely only recommend eating it melted though! Don't even attempt it plain...
I'll give it a go - thanks for the tip!
Original post by goldenfish
Evidence that they want to keep living pls.
Did a cow speak to you and plead with you not to eat it?
So in your opinion beastiality is right?
Why Is it morally acceptable to destroy the earth in looking for oil, when we can live healthily and happily with out oil?
Answer: because it's our choice.
Meat is abundant, healthy in moderation and most importantly, nice.
Other animals would have no issues eating us, so why should we not eat them?
Did a cow speak to you and plead with you not to eat it?
So in your opinion beastiality is right?
Why Is it morally acceptable to destroy the earth in looking for oil, when we can live healthily and happily with out oil?
Answer: because it's our choice.
Meat is abundant, healthy in moderation and most importantly, nice.
Other animals would have no issues eating us, so why should we not eat them?
It's not the fact that we eat them that I see a problem with, it's the way we go about it. Battery farming is just plain wrong. Even free range isn't as great as we think it is. I'd love to get all my meat and dairy from a small, local farm where I know the animals haven't been treated awfully and where I can physically see them grazing in a field. That's how it should be but sadly there's too many people and too high a demand. Meat is only abundant because we make it so.
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Original post by StretfordEnd
If you're religious; by the grace of God. If you're not; by the indisputable evidence that we are the 'top' of the food chain through our superior intelligence.
Reasons against vegetarianism? It's a perversion of nature. Everything, from our teeth to our primal behaviour to our digestive system, is geared towards omnivorousness.
Reasons against vegetarianism? It's a perversion of nature. Everything, from our teeth to our primal behaviour to our digestive system, is geared towards omnivorousness.
Vegetarian here. (I should note that I'm doing it for health reasons and not ethical ones )
I'll be the first to admit that I am not an expert on the human digestive system...
But, have humans merely adapted to eat meat as we can survive at least as healthy as omnivores. Also couldn't humans once eat grass but no longer can? So is that really a valid reason?
As for the canines and protein problems gorillas have canines and also do not seem to be lacking in muscle! There are also numerous vegetarian/vegan body builders and wrestler out there to!
I'm considering quitting so I would actually be grateful if someone could prove me wrong!
Sources: http://education.nationalgeographic.co.uk/education/encyclopedia/herbivore/?ar_a=1
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Davij038
Vegetarian here. (I should note that I'm doing it for health reasons and not ethical ones )
I'll be the first to admit that I am not an expert on the human digestive system...
But, have humans merely adapted to eat meat as we can survive at least as healthy as omnivores. Also couldn't humans once eat grass but no longer can? So is that really a valid reason?
As for the canines and protein problems gorillas have canines and also do not seem to be lacking in muscle! There are also numerous vegetarian/vegan body builders and wrestler out there to!
I'm considering quitting so I would actually be grateful if someone could prove me wrong!
Sources: http://education.nationalgeographic.co.uk/education/encyclopedia/herbivore/?ar_a=1
I'll be the first to admit that I am not an expert on the human digestive system...
But, have humans merely adapted to eat meat as we can survive at least as healthy as omnivores. Also couldn't humans once eat grass but no longer can? So is that really a valid reason?
As for the canines and protein problems gorillas have canines and also do not seem to be lacking in muscle! There are also numerous vegetarian/vegan body builders and wrestler out there to!
I'm considering quitting so I would actually be grateful if someone could prove me wrong!
Sources: http://education.nationalgeographic.co.uk/education/encyclopedia/herbivore/?ar_a=1
The thing is, it isn't healthy. Just look at the numerous studies showing that eating meat causes/contributes to cancers, heart disease, death, obesity, etc.
What do you mean is that really a valid reason? A valid reason to eat meat, or to not eat it?
Why are you considering quitting? As you've said, you're vegetarian not for ethical reasons, so obviously the emotive arguments won't matter, but health-wise you're so much better off not eating meat.
I'm a bit confused on the wording of some of your points, could you clarify?
Original post by wannabeastronaut
What do you mean is that really a valid reason? A valid reason to eat meat, or to not eat it?
Why are you considering quitting? As you've said, you're vegetarian not for ethical reasons, so obviously the emotive arguments won't matter, but health-wise you're so much better off not eating meat.
I'm a bit confused on the wording of some of your points, could you clarify?
What do you mean is that really a valid reason? A valid reason to eat meat, or to not eat it?
Why are you considering quitting? As you've said, you're vegetarian not for ethical reasons, so obviously the emotive arguments won't matter, but health-wise you're so much better off not eating meat.
I'm a bit confused on the wording of some of your points, could you clarify?
i was replying to stretfordend reasoning that it isn't natural
Considering eating meat again as its so much easier to put on weight (Muscle) when you're eating meat!
Sorry for the confusion!
Meat tastes damn nice, it's a much simpler hassle free way of getting a lot of your vital nutrition, and eating animals is fun.
Animals eat each other, so why should we also not eat them. We too are animals. A lot of these creatures wouldn't be around if we didn't want to eat them, in some warped way. I think provided you do your best to make sure they had a nice life and didn't suffer unduly then it's just a part of life.
Generally: don't buy meat from a creature where you can't tell whether or not it's been trapped in a cage all its life and your conscience can remain clean.
Free-range is one of the few food labels I think it's worth paying attention to.
Generally: don't buy meat from a creature where you can't tell whether or not it's been trapped in a cage all its life and your conscience can remain clean.
Free-range is one of the few food labels I think it's worth paying attention to.
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