Post arguments against vegetarianism/veganism, please!

OP

You can challenge my views, you are more than welcome too, but you can't force me to change my views, you can persuade me, but not control me. Likewise for me to you.

No I don't think because something feels good it is right to do something. My argument actually is that meat is usually cheaper, and is a good form of nourishment. If we get meat that is grown, and is just as cheap, then I will change to that, but until then I will stick to meat, only eating a vegetarian meal when it is affordable.

Again, if a rich person decides to eat meat, than that is their choice, nobody has the authority to tell them otherwise.

This entire thread is about arguments for/against vegetarianism. Whether you should force people to do something is another debate.

Similarly, whether someone has the authority to tell rich people what to eat is another debate.

Reply 61

Ripper-Roo

OP, I was a meat eater, and like you, very against animal cruelty and I care for animals.

I made the decision to stop eating meat almost a month ago. It is up to you but I haven't found it difficult, you just need to be disciplined and remember why you're doing it!

Reply 62

RunningScotsman

1

Original post by Ralph Lauren

I never said that there is absolute right and wrong.

Are you saying that morality isn't debatable?
Are you saying that we can't use the basis of moral beliefs that there is a consensus on to support other moral beliefs?

If it was a requirement that innocent humans needed to be killed in a systematic, large scale manner, for the entirety of your life, and were raised for that, to spare you an 'unhealthy position', would that be moral?

If there is no alternative to meat for one's dietary requirements, meat-eating it is more understandable.

I meant unhealthy position literally, as in regards to dietary requirements. I've already said I'm not prepared to sacrifice my health to reduce global meat consumption, whether or not that makes me a bad or selfish person would depend on one's personal views on the morality of meat eating.

Morality is perfectly debatable, but my views tend to draw me away from matters that don't or can't have a correct answer. My previous posts weren't really trying to make a point, but addressing what separates us from the rest of Earth's ecosystem.

I regret now entering the philosophy forum, as speculation and debates about ethics tend to bore me.

I'm sorry I wasn't the debate partner you were hoping for. I hope you find someone equipped to deal with such questions instead of someone as out of his depth as me :ashamed2:

Reply 63

Ralph Lauren

OP

Original post by Ripper-Roo

OP, I was a meat eater, and like you, very against animal cruelty and I care for animals.

I made the decision to stop eating meat almost a month ago. It is up to you but I haven't found it difficult, you just need to be disciplined and remember why you're doing it!

Thanks for this.

Reply 64

Ralph Lauren

OP

Original post by RunningScotsman

I meant unhealthy position literally, as in regards to dietary requirements. I've already said I'm not prepared to sacrifice my health to reduce global meat consumption, whether or not that makes me a bad or selfish person would depend on one's personal views on the morality of meat eating.

Morality is perfectly debatable, but my views tend to draw me away from matters that don't or can't have a correct answer. My previous posts weren't really trying to make a point, but addressing what separates us from the rest of Earth's ecosystem.

I regret now entering the philosophy forum, as speculation and debates about ethics tend to bore me.

I'm sorry I wasn't the debate partner you were hoping for. I hope you find someone equipped to deal with such questions instead of someone as out of his depth as me :ashamed2:

Thanks for the input. :smile:

Reply 65

StretfordEnd

15

Original post by Juichiro

1. I see. Then there is no reason for you not to eat human meat.

2. You are also designed to build things. Weapons are things. Build weapons? You are also designed to fight for resources. So use your weapons to get your resources? Who cares about those who die? Also, you are designed to impregnate as many women as you can using anything you need to assure your goal is carried out. Tell your father to do that? Do that yourself?

Pointless, right?

Disingenuous logic. Building/using weapons, impregnating as many women as possible has an effect on other people, whom we know to be self-aware, sentient beings with self-conciousness and self-concept.

There is nothing to firmly suggest that animals have the same level of consciousness as us. Plants are living things, should we refrain from ingesting them too? Should all food be 100% synthetically produced?

Reply 66

CoolRunner

9

me + steak = one happy person

QED

Reply 67

RunningScotsman

1

Original post by CoolRunner

me + steak = one happy person

QED

Quantum Electrodynamics?

Reply 68

Juichiro

18

Original post by StretfordEnd

Disingenuous logic. Building/using weapons, impregnating as many women as possible has an effect on other people, whom we know to be self-aware, sentient beings with self-conciousness and self-concept.

There is nothing to firmly suggest that animals have the same level of consciousness as us. Plants are living things, should we refrain from ingesting them too? Should all food be 100% synthetically produced?

I don't know if every human being is self-aware. I have no evidence for the existence of those things you call consciousness or self-concept. For all I know they are human constructs as real as the soul or God. This is what I know: all livings beings are made of particles. And healthy non-defectuous mammals suffer (i.e. distress) whenever they or their descendants are eaten. If the food is healthy for us and it causes no pain to any being capable of suffering, then yes, all food should be 100% synthetically produced. I don't put nature in a high pedestal.

Reply 69

Craminer

I think that eating meat and fish is not wrong, but the excessive commodification of it , the messages of the mass media are uncorrect! one of the results:tuna are burning out. However my opinion is that red meat could be eliminated smoothly. infact my diet excludes red meat and pig meat. my only source of meat is chicken and I have the fortune to have a small farmland with vegetables farmed by my father. What do you think about red meat?

Reply 70

CoolRunner

9

Original post by RunningScotsman

Quantum Electrodynamics?

Precisely

Reply 71

Thoth's World

19

I believe everyone is entitled to their own thoughts but my argument is killing animals is part of our lifestyle, it's part of nature although the way in which we kill them is vile and inhuman. Keeping thousands, millions of chickens in a cage in which they cannot spread their wings or move around in is not right. Or keeping fish within fish farms which capture the fish and keep them alive in a net while there is no room to move, thousands squirming and suffocating and we think nothing of it because these animals cannot communicate nor have vocal cords in the fishes case, but feel pain and emotions as we do. It's not right
In reality people are always going to eat chicken, or any type of meat. It's never going to get stopped all together but actions should be taken for all farms, and captive to make the animals deaths quick and painless as possible. Not near enough torture them to the fact they do not live a life, and can be kept for months in a small cage in pain not getting treated.

Reply 72

Thoth's World

19

I believe everyone is entitled to their own thoughts but my argument is killing animals is part of our lifestyle, it's part of nature although the way in which we kill them is vile and inhuman. Keeping thousands, millions of chickens in a cage in which they cannot spread their wings or move around in is not right. Or keeping fish within fish farms which capture the fish and keep them alive in a net while there is no room to move, thousands squirming and suffocating and we think nothing of it because these animals cannot communicate nor have vocal cords in the fishes case, but feel pain and emotions as we do. It's not right
In reality people are always going to eat chicken, or any type of meat. It's never going to get stopped all together but actions should be taken for all farms, and captive to make the animals deaths quick and painless as possible. Not near enough torture them to the fact they do not live a life, and can be kept for months in a small cage in pain not getting treated.

Reply 73

felamaslen

15

As a means to diminish animal suffering, it's very poor. Animal suffering occurs at the hands of other animals, and the environment, and always has done.

As a means to be healthy, it doesn't really work either. Meat is an important part of the diet (and you can make lovely food out of it!).

Reply 74

Juichiro

18

Original post by CoolRunner

me + steak = one happy person

QED

tiger + you = one happy tiger

Reply 75

Dominic101

13

Original post by TheGuy117

I have canine teeth. So I should use them as they were designed to be used.

Some biologist say that men are designed to rape. Would you partake in that too?

Reply 76

Juichiro

18

Original post by felamaslen

As a means to diminish animal suffering, it's very poor. Animal suffering occurs at the hands of other animals, and the environment, and always has done.

As a means to be healthy, it doesn't really work either. Meat is an important part of the diet (and you can make lovely food out of it!).

Politician: why should we make things easier for the poor? Life ain't easy. *sits back and drinks expensive wine*

Reply 77

CoolRunner

9

Original post by Juichiro

tiger + you = one happy tiger

Ok, let me try that.

See?

TBH, idk whats the motive for you saying that.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 78

Brit_Miller

14

Original post by Ralph Lauren

...

Do it. No matter the regulations, some animals live in horrific conditions and the slaughter is not much better. What sets us apart is that we as humans have the choice not to eat meat whilst still being able to have a healthy diet.

My choice is to get nutrients which don't rely on the killing of animals.