Hitting a wall - finding it difficult to recover.
I am on ICF 5x5, I have been training for 6 months now.
These are my stats, my p.b.'s:
Squat 122.5kg 3x5
Deadlift 135kg 1x3
Bench Press 67.5kg 5x5
Row 77.5kg 5x5
Overhead Press: 52.5kg 3x5
Weight: 166 pounds. 5ft10
My problem is that I am finding it difficult now to squat 3 times a week at that weight and also deadlift on the middle day. I am finding it difficult to recover. Today, I went for 5 sets of squats and hit the second set and was very tired. I did not do deadlifts either today, my legs felt like jelly. The previous session I managed to hit 122.5kg squat 3x5. The amount of sleep I had last night was not ideal, 6 hours. But in general, I am getting tierd on warmups even, and I should not be. I just generally feel fatigued.
In terms of eating, I am eating at 500 cals above maintenance. I have had the odd one or two extra days off (once or twice) in my training but other than that I have been very very consistent.
I have reset twice now on squat at this weight (122.5kg ). I just feel like it is all getting more difficult.
These are my stats, my p.b.'s:
Squat 122.5kg 3x5
Deadlift 135kg 1x3
Bench Press 67.5kg 5x5
Row 77.5kg 5x5
Overhead Press: 52.5kg 3x5
Weight: 166 pounds. 5ft10
My problem is that I am finding it difficult now to squat 3 times a week at that weight and also deadlift on the middle day. I am finding it difficult to recover. Today, I went for 5 sets of squats and hit the second set and was very tired. I did not do deadlifts either today, my legs felt like jelly. The previous session I managed to hit 122.5kg squat 3x5. The amount of sleep I had last night was not ideal, 6 hours. But in general, I am getting tierd on warmups even, and I should not be. I just generally feel fatigued.
In terms of eating, I am eating at 500 cals above maintenance. I have had the odd one or two extra days off (once or twice) in my training but other than that I have been very very consistent.
I have reset twice now on squat at this weight (122.5kg ). I just feel like it is all getting more difficult.
(edited 9 years ago)
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Your lifts are decent for 6 months, congrats
Personally, I'd have a look at changing your diet and obviously 8 hours is ideal for most for good reason. When I started on bulking, I had a fairly high fat: carb ratio. I changed this over time to nearing ultra high carb and low fat. Performance improved greatly tbh, I seem to thrive on very high carbs.
Might also be worth asking Jason himself on his weekly Q&A thread on his fb page
Do you do anything on your rest days/ have a manual job?
Personally, I'd have a look at changing your diet and obviously 8 hours is ideal for most for good reason. When I started on bulking, I had a fairly high fat: carb ratio. I changed this over time to nearing ultra high carb and low fat. Performance improved greatly tbh, I seem to thrive on very high carbs.
Might also be worth asking Jason himself on his weekly Q&A thread on his fb page
Do you do anything on your rest days/ have a manual job?
^ Agree with the diet advice; weirdly I was the other way around and felt better with fewer carbs which doesn't really make sense but oh well. Experiment to see what works for you.
I would also suggest looking at Madcows 5x5 as a progression from ICF, it basically incorporates a "rest" set of squats on middle days. People generally switch over when they're lifting a bit more though, so definitely try the diet thing first. Make sure you 100% get enough protein to help you recover, preferably taken in throughout the day (i.e. a source every meal) so you can actually absorb it.
I would also suggest looking at Madcows 5x5 as a progression from ICF, it basically incorporates a "rest" set of squats on middle days. People generally switch over when they're lifting a bit more though, so definitely try the diet thing first. Make sure you 100% get enough protein to help you recover, preferably taken in throughout the day (i.e. a source every meal) so you can actually absorb it.
Original post by Angry cucumber
Your lifts are decent for 6 months, congrats
Personally, I'd have a look at changing your diet and obviously 8 hours is ideal for most for good reason. When I started on bulking, I had a fairly high fat: carb ratio. I changed this over time to nearing ultra high carb and low fat. Performance improved greatly tbh, I seem to thrive on very high carbs.
Might also be worth asking Jason himself on his weekly Q&A thread on his fb page
Do you do anything on your rest days/ have a manual job?
Personally, I'd have a look at changing your diet and obviously 8 hours is ideal for most for good reason. When I started on bulking, I had a fairly high fat: carb ratio. I changed this over time to nearing ultra high carb and low fat. Performance improved greatly tbh, I seem to thrive on very high carbs.
Might also be worth asking Jason himself on his weekly Q&A thread on his fb page
Do you do anything on your rest days/ have a manual job?
I have some light cardio, literally just a light job in the park.
I will try to have more carbs and less fats (e.g. olive oil) because I have high fat in my diet like you did.
Lately, I have just been feeling fatigued. I don't think I can deadlift and squat my 5x5 best on the same day on the middle day, it's overkill in terms of fatigue/recovery. I will alternate squat and deadlift on the middle day.
It is just confusing because for 120kg 5x5 squat, I was hitting the safety bars on my way down on the lift quite regularly, so the depth was definitely very good. But once I am at 122.5kg now, it just feels like it's beating me down a bit and I need more sleep. Imo, the best I feel is when I sleep for something like 10 hours, a lot of recovery is needed.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Tom_Ford
I have some light cardio, literally just a light job in the park.
I will try to have more carbs and less fats (e.g. olive oil) because I have high fat in my diet like you did.
Lately, I have just been feeling fatigued. I don't think I can deadlift and squat my 5x5 best on the same day on the middle day, it's overkill in terms of fatigue/recovery. I will alternate squat and deadlift on the middle day.
It is just confusing because for 120kg 5x5 squat, I was hitting the safety bars on my way down on the lift quite regularly, so the depth was definitely very good. But once I am at 122.5kg now, it just feels like it's beating me down a bit and I need more sleep. Imo, the best I feel is when I sleep for something like 10 hours, a lot of recovery is needed.
I will try to have more carbs and less fats (e.g. olive oil) because I have high fat in my diet like you did.
Lately, I have just been feeling fatigued. I don't think I can deadlift and squat my 5x5 best on the same day on the middle day, it's overkill in terms of fatigue/recovery. I will alternate squat and deadlift on the middle day.
It is just confusing because for 120kg 5x5 squat, I was hitting the safety bars on my way down on the lift quite regularly, so the depth was definitely very good. But once I am at 122.5kg now, it just feels like it's beating me down a bit and I need more sleep. Imo, the best I feel is when I sleep for something like 10 hours, a lot of recovery is needed.
I see no problem in dropping the squats on the middle day tbh however how often are you running?
Original post by Angry cucumber
I see no problem in dropping the squats on the middle day tbh however how often are you running?
2 days a week. It's just light jogging to rid me of the DOMs (which is a total pain in the arse).
Original post by Tom_Ford
2 days a week. It's just light jogging to rid me of the DOMs (which is a total pain in the arse).
Fair play then, I see no problem with that, however if you're lifting M/W/F I wouldn't run on T/T as in my experience it just destroys recovery. I always found that doing my cardio after squats on the same day wasn't comfy to do, but my recovery was far better than cardio on the days in between squats. Failing that run on say Tuesday and Saturday.
Just go for a 20 minute walk to clear your DOMS on your rest days tbh.
Original post by Tom_Ford
2 days a week. It's just light jogging to rid me of the DOMs (which is a total pain in the arse).
roids?
I think you need a new routine mate.
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Original post by RollerBall
Suggestions brah?
I assume you know ICF 5x5 is just Stronglifts 5x5 with loads of assistance exercises added on top. Stronglifts 5x5 is itself a derivative of Mark Rippetoe's example novice progression in Starting Strength.
Tell me, do you understand what the difference is between a novice lifter and an intermediate lifter?
Tell me, do you understand what the difference is between a novice lifter and an intermediate lifter?
Original post by SEHughes
I assume you know ICF 5x5 is just Stronglifts 5x5 with loads of assistance exercises added on top. Stronglifts 5x5 is itself a derivative of Mark Rippetoe's example novice progression in Starting Strength.
Tell me, do you understand what the difference is between a novice lifter and an intermediate lifter?
Tell me, do you understand what the difference is between a novice lifter and an intermediate lifter?
Not really, it's dependent on the ratio between bodyweight and the amount one can lift I guess? I just did the programme as it is easy to understand.
have u tried to deload then worked back up again
Original post by Greg Jackson
have u tried to deload then worked back up again
Yup. As the guide says. I'll try and lift 122.5kg 5x5 again and if i fail after a lot of rest and food then i'll know it's over with the programme.
Original post by Tom_Ford
Not really, it's dependent on the ratio between bodyweight and the amount one can lift I guess? I just did the programme as it is easy to understand.
It's about the rate of adaptation. The amount of stimulus a novice needs to cause disruption to homeostasis is low enough that they can recover by the next workout. At some point the amount of stimulus you need is more than you can recover from by the next workout. At that point you need to start looking at weekly increases.
You need to get a copy of this book. It will make everything clear and you'll know how to transition from ICF to something that continues your progress. Good luck buddy!
Original post by SEHughes
It's about the rate of adaptation. The amount of stimulus a novice needs to cause disruption to homeostasis is low enough that they can recover by the next workout. At some point the amount of stimulus you need is more than you can recover from by the next workout. At that point you need to start looking at weekly increases.
You need to get a copy of this book. It will make everything clear and you'll know how to transition from ICF to something that continues your progress. Good luck buddy!
You need to get a copy of this book. It will make everything clear and you'll know how to transition from ICF to something that continues your progress. Good luck buddy!
What programmes are the best for that?
Original post by Tom_Ford
What programmes are the best for that?
Did you look at Madcows?
Original post by ttankzhang
Did you look at Madcows?
Nope. Sounds like a disease!
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