Why do we English pretend to be offended when Celtic don't wear the poppy?

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Zürich
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#1
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#1
-For a start the Irish died face down with the English, Scottish and Welsh in every war we fought for 200 years until 1921.

-Secondly the Irish were never treated with respect, like a colony of Britain with all the humiliations etc. When Ireland had their famine, we continued exporting grain from Ireland, by force and for our own gain. Think about that.

-When nutjobs from Northern Ireland disenfranchised Catholics and treated them like ****, the British army shot at the innocent people asking for equality



In black and white, on Bloddy Sunday, in 1972 our army shot dead innocent women and children. Covered up and only since come to light.


You expect James McClean to wear a poppy?
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DorianGrayism
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#2
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#2
I don't think anyone expects McClean to wear a poppy unless you are a twitter troll.

Having said that, there were many Irishmen that have fought in the British Army in both the First and Second World War.
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Zürich
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#3
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#3
(Original post by DorianGrayism)
I don't think anyone expects McClean to wear a poppy unless you are a twitter troll.

Having said that, there were many Irishmen that have fought in the British Army in both the First and Second World War.
Yeah that's the point

1) WW1:British/Irish fight and die together

2)Since then: British army shoots innocent people in Nortnern Ireland and tries to cover it up.

To not wear the poppy because of 2) doesnt disrespect 1) imo. Especially since Ireland and Britain fought that war as one nation. As many wars, I really think Ireland ought to be part of the Union but we ****ed it up.
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DorianGrayism
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#4
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#4
(Original post by Zürich)
Yeah that's the point

1) WW1:British/Irish fight and die together

2)Since then: British army shoots innocent people in Nortnern Ireland and tries to cover it up.

To not wear the poppy because of 2) doesnt disrespect 1) imo. Especially since Ireland and Britain fought that war as one nation. As many wars, I really think Ireland ought to be part of the Union but we ****ed it up.
British policy really was disastrous. The famine was so devastating that population levels have yet to recover.

Yeh...one hand, I would like the Irish as part of the Union....on the other hand, I am not sure that Ireland could have been as successful as they have been within the Union.
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Zürich
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#5
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#5
(Original post by DorianGrayism)
British policy really was disastrous. The famine was so devastating that population levels have yet to recover.

Yeh...one hand, I would like the Irish as part of the Union....on the other hand, I am not sure that Ireland could have been as successful as they have been within the Union.
No, I think Ireland and Britain would have been much more successful together. We really ****ed up what should have been a perfect marriage with the home rule issue pre WW1
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trustmeimlying1
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#6
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#6
(Original post by DorianGrayism)
British policy really was disastrous. The famine was so devastating that population levels have yet to recover.

Yeh...one hand, I would like the Irish as part of the Union....on the other hand, I am not sure that Ireland could have been as successful as they have been within the Union.
(Original post by Zürich)
No, I think Ireland and Britain would have been much more successful together. We really ****ed up what should have been a perfect marriage with the home rule issue pre WW1
Im with hitler upstairs.the best thing that happened to us was leaving the union.

In turn weve held of to some of our cultural identity. Heres hoping we can hold on tighter.
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Zürich
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#7
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#7
(Original post by trustmeimlying1)
Im with hitler upstairs.the best thing that happened to us was leaving the union.

In turn weve held of to some of our cultural identity. Heres hoping we can hold on tighter.
No the worst thing.

Havent you seen the Northern Irish goose step?
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Vintage
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#8
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#8
What has this got to do with Football?

Admin? :teeth:
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The Shed End
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#9
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#9
But Zurich, I thought we were Dutch?

This split-personality thing you've got going on is certainly odd.
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scriggy
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#10
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#10
(Original post by The Shed End)
But Zurich, I thought we were Dutch?

This split-personality thing you've got going on is certainly odd.
You don't need to be Irish to empathise with them not wanting to wear a poppy...
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The Shed End
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#11
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#11
(Original post by scriggy)
You don't need to be Irish to empathise with them not wanting to wear a poppy...
OP refers to himself as English, but then used to say he was from Amsterdam. Talks total BS about other stuff as well.
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toddman10
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#12
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#12
The British are very hypocritical, I have 3 ancestors who died in ww1 from northern ireland and the relatives of these soldiers were treated like dirt by the Black and tans in the 1920s and later on during the troubles. Maybe if the army had showed our people some respect we would be wearing poppies today but they didn't so I say to hell with the poppy.
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sr90
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#13
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#13
(Original post by Vintage)
What has this got to do with Football?

Admin? :teeth:
This thread would attract all sorts of trolls & spam if it were moved. It's fine here.

You can see why he's not wearing one, just imagine what it was like growing up in the heart of NI whilst all this **** was going on. You go out your front door and you've got foreign troops everywhere you look pointing guns at you. As well as being associated with the wars, the poppy is a nationalist symbol associated with atrocities committed by the British Army such as Bloody Sunday. It's easy to say that this was a small minority compared to the millions who sacrificed their life in the wars, but if you were personally affected by such a tragedy you would not be able to dismiss it so lightly.

I personally wear a poppy but it doesn't bother me if other people don't. The whole reason all these people went to far was to preserve our freedom, was it not?

(Original post by Zürich)
No, I think Ireland and Britain would have been much more successful together. We really ****ed up what should have been a perfect marriage with the home rule issue pre WW1
Gladstone tried his best, but the Tories and Liberals were having none of it. Most of the Irish at the time were perfectly content to be part of the UK, the UVF was only formed just before WW1 and it was a tiny minority. Loads of Irishmen signed up to fight for the British Army. Instead of fixing the issue when they had the chance Parliament completely delayed and it was largely forgotten about when war broke out. If we hadn't have been so heavy handed and treated the Irish as we did the Scots or the Welsh (e.g the Union of 1707) we'd probably still have a united Ireland in the UK today.

I'm surprised that we've largely airbrushed this from history, i'm sure that kids in Irish schools learn all about the conflict but you're lucky to hear it mentioned in the UK curriculum. Your average bloke on the streets probably knows nothing about it.
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Zürich
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#14
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#14
(Original post by sr90)
This thread would attract all sorts of trolls & spam if it were moved. It's fine here.

You can see why he's not wearing one, just imagine what it was like growing up in the heart of NI whilst all this **** was going on. You go out your front door and you've got foreign troops everywhere you look pointing guns at you. As well as being associated with the wars, the poppy is a nationalist symbol associated with atrocities committed by the British Army such as Bloody Sunday. It's easy to say that this was a small minority compared to the millions who sacrificed their life in the wars, but if you were personally affected by such a tragedy you would not be able to dismiss it so lightly.

I personally wear a poppy but it doesn't bother me if other people don't. The whole reason all these people went to far was to preserve our freedom, was it not?



Gladstone tried his best, but the Tories and Liberals were having none of it. Most of the Irish at the time were perfectly content to be part of the UK, the UVF was only formed just before WW1 and it was a tiny minority. Loads of Irishmen signed up to fight for the British Army. Instead of fixing the issue when they had the chance Parliament completely delayed and it was largely forgotten about when war broke out. If we hadn't have been so heavy handed and treated the Irish as we did the Scots or the Welsh (e.g the Union of 1707) we'd probably still have a united Ireland in the UK today.

I'm surprised that we've largely airbrushed this from history, i'm sure that kids in Irish schools learn all about the conflict but you're lucky to hear it mentioned in the UK curriculum. Your average bloke on the streets probably knows nothing about it.
Spot on mate.

As an Englishman, if I had a time machine, then one of the things I would do would be to make sure Ireland had Home Rule in one of the first bills. Ireland will never return to the Union now, but it was in our hands. I really think Ireland would be part of the UK to this day had we not ****ed it up.

Let's not even talk about what Britain did in Northern Ireland afterwards.

And wouldn't we all be better off?
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Observatory
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#15
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#15
(Original post by Zürich)
No, I think Ireland and Britain would have been much more successful together. We really ****ed up what should have been a perfect marriage with the home rule issue pre WW1
It was long gone already by then, with every constituency in Ireland returning the Irish Parliamentary Party in every general election for decades. Home Rule would just have meant a gradual drift out rather than a sudden secession, and an insurgency by the protestant north rather than the catholic south.

Britain did '**** up' in Ireland but not in the way people think. Principally, Britain supported the feudal magnates in Ireland during the 18th and 19th century at the same time as they were being sidelined and eventually destroyed in Great Britain. It did this because those magnates, who were often protestant immigrants, were seen as more loyal than the general population. It was this failure to abolish the feudal system, not the pro-Irish Whigs' insistence on free trade during the famine, that turned the famine into such a disaster. Free trade and free markets worked perfectly well at preventing famine both in Great Britain and in the United States to which so many Irish fled. It was this difference in institutions that led to the very real pauperisation of Ireland against which the England and protestant Scots continued to discriminate into the late 20th century.

With respect to the question - as an Eiro-Englishman who has lived his whole life in England I have never been part of a conversation that focused on Celtic. Everyone knows they appeal to narrow-minded sectarians who have almost ceased to exist in both England and the Republic. They are trying to stoke a war that ended more than a decade ago.
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toddman10
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#16
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#16
(Original post by Observatory)

With respect to the question - as an Eiro-Englishman who has lived his whole life in England I have never been part of a conversation that focused on Celtic. Everyone knows they appeal to narrow-minded sectarians who have almost ceased to exist in both England and the Republic. They are trying to stoke a war that ended more than a decade ago.
That isn't completely true about Celtic, I'm from N.Ireland but don't support them, I don't actually know many who do support them.

However they do have a massive following in the republic (obviously bigger due to it being a bigger country), I would imagine that about 70% of Celtic fans in Ireland as a whole support them just because of their Irish connection and nothing to do with the political stigma of them, sure a friend of mine in N.Ireland has a protestant father and catholic mother and I recall he always wore Celtic shirts as a young fellow.

I also know republicans who don't support them, they prefer gaelic sports
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Zürich
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#17
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#17
This seems relevant



Remember about 3 years back I was with my grandad at Heathrow, just chatting away in Dutch waiting for our flight. Load of Rangers fans arrive,

''let me shake yer hand mate, protestant people.''

Myself and my grandad are both catholic if anything and are just looking at these guys....


'''aye king billy, you dutch lads know''

My grandad to me rapidly in Dutch ''shake their hands and theyll move on'' and so we did

Do Rangers fans expect Dutch people to embrace them? Only reason I know is because Im from the UK, my grandad had absolutely no idea who ''king Billy'' was?

Yer, and he's a catholic, as is half of Holland/Flanders :laugh:
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doobucks
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#18
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#18
Also I'd be angry with the british if I was sent off to the americas and beat to death regularly. Made poor by the English and then forced to be part of a labour force, kidnapped on the streets of ireland.

Can see why the Irish highly dislike the united kingdom. Zurich actually has a point, considering I do disagree with him entirely on what he has to say about different cultures it makes a difference.
(Original post by Zürich)
This seems relevant



Remember about 3 years back I was with my grandad at Heathrow, just chatting away in Dutch waiting for our flight. Load of Rangers fans arrive,

''let me shake yer hand mate, protestant people.''

Myself and my grandad are both catholic if anything and are just looking at these guys....


'''aye king billy, you dutch lads know''

My grandad to me rapidly in Dutch ''shake their hands and theyll move on'' and so we did

Do Rangers fans expect Dutch people to embrace them? Only reason I know is because Im from the UK, my grandad had absolutely no idea who ''king Billy'' was?

Yer, and he's a catholic, as is half of Holland/Flanders :laugh:
Religion is one of the most pathetic excuses for war and it's still being used as a reason for war today, it's just a simple control mechanism.
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username917703
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#19
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#19
(Original post by jam277)
Can see why the Irish highly dislike the united kingdom.
So can I but he's on about Celtic pal, they're British.
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doobucks
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#20
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#20
(Original post by Wilfred Little)
So can I but he's on about Celtic pal, they're British.
They have catholic and some irish roots though.
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