Warwick/Nottingham/Bristol/Birmingham/Durham for Law
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(edited 8 years ago)
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Durham is an outstanding university. I have friends who achieved impeccable grades through the entirety of their education and chose to study at Durham, even over some top London-based schools. I wouldn't recommend Nottingham based exactly on what you said - it seems you had already ruled that one out. I myself begin the LLB in September at Bristol University. I haven't visited any of the others - barring Nottingham - but I can definitely advocate for the beautiful city of Bristol. The travel links are quite convenient too if you do manage to land a vacation scheme in a London firm. Another thing to think about: lots of high-profile firms have a presence in Bristol; Simmons & Simmons opened their Bristol office in October 2012. It might be a little easier to get your foot in the door and thereafter progress than tackling London offices from the get go.
If I were you, I would strongly consider both Durham and Bristol. Try to contact students already studying at both universities. My opinion is backed by little, but I hope you make the right decision.
If I were you, I would strongly consider both Durham and Bristol. Try to contact students already studying at both universities. My opinion is backed by little, but I hope you make the right decision.
Warwick offers a lot of promise to its graduates. It's a relatively new university but it's progressing at an exponential speed. It's as good as Durham now, but it's getting better and better. 20 or so years from now it would be clearly "head and shoulders" above all the rest of the universities in your list. At the moment, it is already the favorite of the top employers, if this is a consolation, is the only uni in your list that is considered a top target for banking and finance. Warwick has also a respectable name outside of Europe, and is specially respected in Asia and America.
Original post by Mr. Roxas
Warwick offers a lot of promise to its graduates. It's a relatively new university but it's progressing at an exponential speed. It's as good as Durham now, but it's getting better and better.
I think Warwick is very good, but don't really see where this "we're massively on the rise" attitude is coming from.
Original post by Mr. Roxas
20 or so years from now it would be clearly "head and shoulders" above all the rest of the universities in your list.
20 or so years from now it would be clearly "head and shoulders" above all the rest of the universities in your list.
Nonsense with no realistic justification.
Original post by Mr. Roxas
At the moment, it is already the favorite of the top employers, if this is a consolation, is the only uni in your list that is considered a top target for banking and finance. Warwick has also a respectable name outside of Europe, and is specially respected in Asia and America.
At the moment, it is already the favorite of the top employers, if this is a consolation, is the only uni in your list that is considered a top target for banking and finance. Warwick has also a respectable name outside of Europe, and is specially respected in Asia and America.
Highly dubious claim. I would argue Durham and Bristol rank equally well in this regard, if not higher. If you want a training contract at the top elite US law firms in London you'd in fact be ruled out at some of the firms for going to Warwick- less likely to be at Durham, arguably also at Bristol.
So it isn't as simple as you make it sound.
Original post by TheVermillion
Dear TSR,
I am a International Student from Singapore and have received an offer to study Law(3 year L.L.B) at five UK universities mentioned in the thread title. Currently, I am facing a dilemma over which university to firm, although Warwick appeals the most to me. Here are my thoughts on each university after doing research:
Warwick
Offers a contextual approach to studying Law which is unique. Top 10 in UK and also has a respectable presence in South and East Asia. The campus is modern though and does not have the classical English feel which would be nice to have.
Nottingham
Many Singaporeans and Malaysians graduated from this university which may be an advantage in networking and obtaining TCs but I feel that Nottingham has fallen off quite a bit in recent years, evidently by their drop in rankings.
Bristol
Top 30 in QS world rankings, making it competitive internationally, even though its domestic rankings pales in comparison. The city is also nice.
Birmingham
Tuition is cheaper and entry requirements is also lower which, even though I should not think this way, gives me a better chance to score a First.
Durham
Top 10 nationally, but is largely unknown outside UK. Has the best design Law school and also voted best student life. Collegiate system is very interesting. However it is up north and could be a problem doing internship during vacations when major Law firms are in London.
I hope you guys can help me make an informed decision.
I am a International Student from Singapore and have received an offer to study Law(3 year L.L.B) at five UK universities mentioned in the thread title. Currently, I am facing a dilemma over which university to firm, although Warwick appeals the most to me. Here are my thoughts on each university after doing research:
Warwick
Offers a contextual approach to studying Law which is unique. Top 10 in UK and also has a respectable presence in South and East Asia. The campus is modern though and does not have the classical English feel which would be nice to have.
Nottingham
Many Singaporeans and Malaysians graduated from this university which may be an advantage in networking and obtaining TCs but I feel that Nottingham has fallen off quite a bit in recent years, evidently by their drop in rankings.
Bristol
Top 30 in QS world rankings, making it competitive internationally, even though its domestic rankings pales in comparison. The city is also nice.
Birmingham
Tuition is cheaper and entry requirements is also lower which, even though I should not think this way, gives me a better chance to score a First.
Durham
Top 10 nationally, but is largely unknown outside UK. Has the best design Law school and also voted best student life. Collegiate system is very interesting. However it is up north and could be a problem doing internship during vacations when major Law firms are in London.
I hope you guys can help me make an informed decision.
Durham being up North is a non-factor, you'll have to stay in London anyway for vac schemes, hardly like you can commute from Bristol or Birmingham.
Don't think the First factor is a big one at Bham vs the others, it's hard anywhere.
I'd choose Durham, but not really a bad choice in there.
Original post by jenkinsear
I think Warwick is very good, but don't really see where this "we're massively on the rise" attitude is coming from.
Nonsense with no realistic justification.
Nonsense with no realistic justification.
I don't want to sound rude, but, perhaps you haven't done your assignment yet. Do some digging up yourself to find out what Warwick has been doing, and what it plans to do in the next succeeding years so you'd be informed about its rapid growth.
I'm based in the US now (haven't gone back to visit the campus in a while, but the admin constantly feed us with the new developments going on and I can tell you that Warwick is very much poised to become a leading university in the UK and Europe.
The university will also be expanding to America. In a couple of years from now, the Warwick campus in California will begin construction. The first British university to put up a huge campus in North American soil.
http://www.kcra.com/news/british-university-wants-to-make-its-mark-in-placer-county/31440536
http://www.kcra.com/news/local-news/news-sierra/uks-univ-of-warwick-expands-campus-to-placer-county/31445186
Highly dubious claim. I would argue Durham and Bristol rank equally well in this regard, if not higher. If you want a training contract at the top elite US law firms in London you'd in fact be ruled out at some of the firms for going to Warwick- less likely to be at Durham, arguably also at Bristol.
So it isn't as simple as you make it sound.
Well, if you've read what I actually wrote, I was referring to Warwick being a top target in banking and financial world, which is a huge plus to Warwick grads, as i know there are law graduates who'd also rather pursue the lucrative and very inviting environment of banking or business or management consultancy instead. I know law graduates from Oxford who went to join in McKinsey instead as an MC then went on to acquire MBA from Chicago-Booth. (In fact, one of them was in the same class as mine at Chicago.) And, Warwick having a huge presence in the business community makes its law graduates very appealing to corporate law.
I'm not saying Durham would be a bad choice. Far from it. It's a very respected university thus would also be a very good choice to have. Personally, however, I think Durham has already reached its peak and it's now on its plateau stage, whilst Warwick is still new, yet has already made a lot of leaps and bounds successes. It's a solid top 10 university in the UK now -- it never had been ranked outside of the top 10 by any ranking league table. At the rate of its success, it wouldn't be far from now that it would reap more honor, glory and world recognition to become the next pride of British education to the global stage. But this is just me talking about my alma mater, so I can be a little biased towards it.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by George-Woodgate
Durham is an outstanding university. I have friends who achieved impeccable grades through the entirety of their education and chose to study at Durham, even over some top London-based schools. I wouldn't recommend Nottingham based exactly on what you said - it seems you had already ruled that one out. I myself begin the LLB in September at Bristol University. I haven't visited any of the others - barring Nottingham - but I can definitely advocate for the beautiful city of Bristol. The travel links are quite convenient too if you do manage to land a vacation scheme in a London firm. Another thing to think about: lots of high-profile firms have a presence in Bristol; Simmons & Simmons opened their Bristol office in October 2012. It might be a little easier to get your foot in the door and thereafter progress than tackling London offices from the get go.
If I were you, I would strongly consider both Durham and Bristol. Try to contact students already studying at both universities. My opinion is backed by little, but I hope you make the right decision.
If I were you, I would strongly consider both Durham and Bristol. Try to contact students already studying at both universities. My opinion is backed by little, but I hope you make the right decision.
Can I ask what you got at gcse please as I'd like to go to bristol uni to do law
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I'd choose Durham or Warwick, both are highly respected Russell group universities.
Original post by Mr. Roxas
I don't want to sound rude, but, perhaps you haven't done your assignment yet
Yeah.... undergrad at Oxford, postgrad at Cambridge with a period working in legal recruitment in between. I think I've done my share of "assignments"
Original post by Mr. Roxas
. Do some digging up yourself to find out what Warwick has been doing, and what it plans to do in the next succeeding years so you'd be informed about its rapid growth.
I'm based in the US now (haven't gone back to visit the campus in a while, but the admin constantly feed us with the new developments going on and I can tell you that Warwick is very much poised to become a leading university in the UK and Europe.
The university will also be expanding to America. In a couple of years from now, the Warwick campus in California will begin construction. The first British university to put up a huge campus in North American soil.
http://www.kcra.com/news/british-university-wants-to-make-its-mark-in-placer-county/31440536
http://www.kcra.com/news/local-news/news-sierra/uks-univ-of-warwick-expands-campus-to-placer-county/31445186
. Do some digging up yourself to find out what Warwick has been doing, and what it plans to do in the next succeeding years so you'd be informed about its rapid growth.
I'm based in the US now (haven't gone back to visit the campus in a while, but the admin constantly feed us with the new developments going on and I can tell you that Warwick is very much poised to become a leading university in the UK and Europe.
The university will also be expanding to America. In a couple of years from now, the Warwick campus in California will begin construction. The first British university to put up a huge campus in North American soil.
http://www.kcra.com/news/british-university-wants-to-make-its-mark-in-placer-county/31440536
http://www.kcra.com/news/local-news/news-sierra/uks-univ-of-warwick-expands-campus-to-placer-county/31445186
None of this actually supports your claims. I am in no way denying Warwick is a good university -I regularly encourage people on TSR to apply there- but I see no evidence for your claim it is massively on the up. Building a campus is not a sign of quality education or employment options. If it is then Nottingham is leagues ahead of Oxford and Cambridge. You'll find few if any people willing to make such an argument.
Original post by Mr. Roxas
Well, if you've read what I actually wrote, I was referring to Warwick being a top target in banking and financial world, which is a huge plus to Warwick grads, as i know there are law graduates who'd also rather pursue the lucrative and very inviting environment of banking or business or management consultancy instead. I know law graduates from Oxford who went to join in McKinsey instead as an MC then went on to acquire MBA from Chicago-Booth. (In fact, one of them was in the same class as mine at Chicago.) And, Warwick having a huge presence in the business community makes its law graduates very appealing to corporate law.
Well, if you've read what I actually wrote, I was referring to Warwick being a top target in banking and financial world, which is a huge plus to Warwick grads, as i know there are law graduates who'd also rather pursue the lucrative and very inviting environment of banking or business or management consultancy instead. I know law graduates from Oxford who went to join in McKinsey instead as an MC then went on to acquire MBA from Chicago-Booth. (In fact, one of them was in the same class as mine at Chicago.) And, Warwick having a huge presence in the business community makes its law graduates very appealing to corporate law.
"Top target"- you'll find that's Oxbridge, along with the elite London unis. Warwick is highly regarded and recruited from, but nowhere near in the same numbers as the above. To claim otherwise is deceptive.
Original post by Mr. Roxas
I'm not saying Durham would be a bad choice. Far from it. It's a very respected university thus would also be a very good choice to have. Personally, however, I think Durham has already reached its peak and it's now on its plateau stage, whilst Warwick is still new, yet has already made a lot of leaps and bounds successes.
I'm not saying Durham would be a bad choice. Far from it. It's a very respected university thus would also be a very good choice to have. Personally, however, I think Durham has already reached its peak and it's now on its plateau stage, whilst Warwick is still new, yet has already made a lot of leaps and bounds successes.
What absolute drivel. You think people should pick their uni based on how well it would (in your unjustified view) be in 20 or 30 years? What about the more immediate period when they are looking for a job in say 4 years time?
Original post by Mr. Roxas
It's a solid top 10 university in the UK now -- it never had been ranked outside of the top 10 by any ranking league table.
It's a solid top 10 university in the UK now -- it never had been ranked outside of the top 10 by any ranking league table.
As a uni as a whole, perhaps. For law, totally untrue.
Original post by Mr. Roxas
At the rate of its success, it wouldn't be far from now that it would reap more honor, glory and world recognition to become the next pride of British education to the global stage. But this is just me talking about my alma mater, so I can be a little biased towards it.
At the rate of its success, it wouldn't be far from now that it would reap more honor, glory and world recognition to become the next pride of British education to the global stage. But this is just me talking about my alma mater, so I can be a little biased towards it.
Delusional comment.
Original post by jenkinsear
Highly dubious claim. I would argue Durham and Bristol rank equally well in this regard, if not higher. If you want a training contract at the top elite US law firms in London you'd in fact be ruled out at some of the firms for going to Warwick- less likely to be at Durham, arguably also at Bristol.
So it isn't as simple as you make it sound.
Highly dubious claim. I would argue Durham and Bristol rank equally well in this regard, if not higher. If you want a training contract at the top elite US law firms in London you'd in fact be ruled out at some of the firms for going to Warwick- less likely to be at Durham, arguably also at Bristol.
So it isn't as simple as you make it sound.
What firms are you referring to ? I'm guessing the likes of S&C, Skadden, Cleary, maybe Debevoise?
The likes of Latham, Weil, Kirkland seem to cast their net far wider and if you have 'what they're looking for' Warwick is a strong enough name, same with places like York/Exeter.
Even Davis Polk, despite their intake of >5 recruited a trainee from Warwick last cycle.
Original post by MillieXYZ
What firms are you referring to ? I'm guessing the likes of S&C, Skadden, Cleary, maybe Debevoise?
Yes, exactly
Original post by MillieXYZ
The likes of Latham, Weil, Kirkland seem to cast their net far wider and if you have 'what they're looking for' Warwick is a strong enough name, same with places like York/Exeter.
Even Davis Polk, despite their intake of >5 recruited a trainee from Warwick last cycle.
The likes of Latham, Weil, Kirkland seem to cast their net far wider and if you have 'what they're looking for' Warwick is a strong enough name, same with places like York/Exeter.
Even Davis Polk, despite their intake of >5 recruited a trainee from Warwick last cycle.
Agreed, though the net still disproportionately falls on Oxbridge/London.
My main point to the person I was addressing was that Warwick is not always better than Durham career wise as they were trying to suggest. Like all things, it's far more complex than that
Durham, Notts or Bristol. Warwick is good generally but the law programmes at these unis are a tad stronger.
Don't flame me Warwick diehards pls.
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Don't flame me Warwick diehards pls.
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If you're looking to work in the UK, Durham. If you are looking to work in East Asia, you need to go to the most highly rated university in order to have the best chances of success. However, in Singapore, consideration is given largely to whether the university you attended is on the government's list of acceptable universities and after that, the university you attended is not much considered (for non-Oxbridge/LSE/UCL grads anyhow). The main assessment is whether you performed well, whether you achieved 65%+. I don't think Birmingham will be any easier than Durham as regards grading. In fact the lack of guided-learning -- as is present at Durham -- could be argued to make it more difficult to do well in Birmingham than Durham. It's a very complex question you have asked and really you'll be okay no matter what university you go to, assuming you perform well there.
(edited 8 years ago)
In that order.Original post by Princepieman
Durham, Notts or Bristol. Warwick is good generally but the law programmes at these unis are a tad stronger.
Don't flame me Warwick diehards pls.
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Don't flame me Warwick diehards pls.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Such discussion is pretty futile, do you actually understand what a law degree entails, saying that Durham >Notts> Bristol are a 'tad stronger' than Warwick does not really make sense.
The difference between universities like the aforementioned four and say Kent or Sussex is probably the amount of stuff that they cover on the courses in for example Contract/Tort law/Criminal. They will go into more detail than the equiv course at a middling university.
Durham or Nottingham will not be covering stuff that Warwick/Bristol does not and vice versa. How can the course be stronger? It's not like a Mathematical subject where the discrepancies are clear for the world to see. This is partly why Oxbridge trumps all of them because they cover the same amount, if not more within a shorter period of time and have to churn out weekly essays (no chance of dossing)
The only difference between the likes of Durham/Nottingham/Warwick and Bristol is 'reputation/prestige' related'. I would even include LSE, UCL and KCL in this category. I know people doing law at each and every one of the universities that I've mentioned and the content is essentially the same everywhere.
Even if we look at in terms of academics, most of the top academics are at Oxbridge, with a sparse spread of the rest across other top universities.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by liarpoker
Such discussion is pretty futile, do you actually understand what a law degree entails, saying that Durham >Notts> Bristol are a 'tad stronger' than Warwick does not really make sense.
The difference between universities like the aforementioned four and say Kent or Sussex is probably the amount of stuff that they cover on the courses in for example Contract/Tort law/Criminal. They will go into more detail than the equiv course at a middling university.
Durham or Nottingham will not be covering stuff that Warwick/Bristol does not and vice versa. How can the course be stronger? It's not like a Mathematical subject where the discrepancies are clear for the world to see. This is partly why Oxbridge trumps all of them because they cover the same amount, if not more within a shorter period of time and have to churn out weekly essays (no chance of dossing)
The only difference between the likes of Durham/Nottingham/Warwick and Bristol is 'reputation/prestige' related'. I would even include LSE, UCL and KCL in this category. I know people doing law at each and every one of the universities that I've mentioned and the content is essentially the same everywhere.
Even if we look at in terms of academics, most of the top academics are at Oxbridge, with a sparse spread of the rest across other top universities.
The difference between universities like the aforementioned four and say Kent or Sussex is probably the amount of stuff that they cover on the courses in for example Contract/Tort law/Criminal. They will go into more detail than the equiv course at a middling university.
Durham or Nottingham will not be covering stuff that Warwick/Bristol does not and vice versa. How can the course be stronger? It's not like a Mathematical subject where the discrepancies are clear for the world to see. This is partly why Oxbridge trumps all of them because they cover the same amount, if not more within a shorter period of time and have to churn out weekly essays (no chance of dossing)
The only difference between the likes of Durham/Nottingham/Warwick and Bristol is 'reputation/prestige' related'. I would even include LSE, UCL and KCL in this category. I know people doing law at each and every one of the universities that I've mentioned and the content is essentially the same everywhere.
Even if we look at in terms of academics, most of the top academics are at Oxbridge, with a sparse spread of the rest across other top universities.
I specifically asked not to get flamed.
Anyway, I agree with you for the most part hence why I stated 'tad' - even then, it's based on a minute difference I've seen in training contract data.
Original post by liarpoker
Such discussion is pretty futile, do you actually understand what a law degree entails, saying that Durham >Notts> Bristol are a 'tad stronger' than Warwick does not really make sense.
The difference between universities like the aforementioned four and say Kent or Sussex is probably the amount of stuff that they cover on the courses in for example Contract/Tort law/Criminal. They will go into more detail than the equiv course at a middling university.
Durham or Nottingham will not be covering stuff that Warwick/Bristol does not and vice versa. How can the course be stronger? It's not like a Mathematical subject where the discrepancies are clear for the world to see. This is partly why Oxbridge trumps all of them because they cover the same amount, if not more within a shorter period of time and have to churn out weekly essays (no chance of dossing)
The only difference between the likes of Durham/Nottingham/Warwick and Bristol is 'reputation/prestige' related'. I would even include LSE, UCL and KCL in this category. I know people doing law at each and every one of the universities that I've mentioned and the content is essentially the same everywhere.
Even if we look at in terms of academics, most of the top academics are at Oxbridge, with a sparse spread of the rest across other top universities.
The difference between universities like the aforementioned four and say Kent or Sussex is probably the amount of stuff that they cover on the courses in for example Contract/Tort law/Criminal. They will go into more detail than the equiv course at a middling university.
Durham or Nottingham will not be covering stuff that Warwick/Bristol does not and vice versa. How can the course be stronger? It's not like a Mathematical subject where the discrepancies are clear for the world to see. This is partly why Oxbridge trumps all of them because they cover the same amount, if not more within a shorter period of time and have to churn out weekly essays (no chance of dossing)
The only difference between the likes of Durham/Nottingham/Warwick and Bristol is 'reputation/prestige' related'. I would even include LSE, UCL and KCL in this category. I know people doing law at each and every one of the universities that I've mentioned and the content is essentially the same everywhere.
Even if we look at in terms of academics, most of the top academics are at Oxbridge, with a sparse spread of the rest across other top universities.
Lmao, this reads as: MUST PROTECT WARWICK'S REPUTATION AT ALL COSTS.
(edited 8 years ago)
Look, you aren't going to get rejected from a SC/MC firm by going to any of these purely because you have a Notts/B'ham/Bristol/Durham/Warwick Law degree.
They're all great with strong reputations. If you're an exceptional individual, you'll get a TC at a prestigious law firm. Go to the place that you think you'll be happy. You'll end up enjoying it more, getting the high grades, doing the extracurriculars and gaining the experience that are all needed if you want to get into a top firm.
Reassurance that they're great:
http://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/media/1067/what_is_a_good_university.pdf
They're all great with strong reputations. If you're an exceptional individual, you'll get a TC at a prestigious law firm. Go to the place that you think you'll be happy. You'll end up enjoying it more, getting the high grades, doing the extracurriculars and gaining the experience that are all needed if you want to get into a top firm.
Reassurance that they're great:
http://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/media/1067/what_is_a_good_university.pdf
(edited 8 years ago)
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