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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    A 'compassionate conservative' might not make the country much worse, but conservatives, by their very nature, struggle to improve anything. They're the ones who benefit from the status quo after all.

    Johnson? That socially liberal Thatcherite? Nah thanks. I'd condemn his views if they weren't so opaque.
    I know that is an entirely subjective argument and therefore bait but please expand. You don't have to radically change the status-quo for the working poor to benefit as they were doing until about 03 (that's about when home ownership levels peaked, real wages in 07).

    Agreed. Johnson is more a populist with Thatcherite instincts.
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    (Original post by similarBlank)
    Why do people identify as Conservative and why do they think this is the best ideology?
    I would say that I'm quite conservative in my ideology but that does not make me a Tory supporter.

    I guess why I am conservative is that I believe that markets reflect value in society as opposed to social ideas/constructs.

    However I'm also quite libertarian in that I believe everyone should have the right to their ideas and private practices. In addition, the state should have a minimal role in shaping the values of society.


    So the whole issue according to me pertains to the concept of value and that what is valuable now must have some inherent use to humanity. I believe this to be the definition of conservatism i.e. believing we should keep certain things the same (or conserve them) as opposed to constantly looking for change.
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    (Original post by StrangeBanana)
    It can be very comforting to think that those who are wealthy are wealthy simply because they've worked harder than others, but in reality it comes down to things which are - largely - out of their control. Your parents, your education, and your intelligence are perhaps the greatest influences on your life as a whole, and you don't get to choose them.
    I find this to be a very weak argument for or against anything.

    Of course many things are out of your control, what has that got to do with aspiration to financial gain? It's not to do with working hard only but working effectively.
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    (Original post by xylas)
    I find this to be a very weak argument for or against anything.

    Of course many things are out of your control, what has that got to do with aspiration to financial gain? It's not to do with working hard only but working effectively.
    Factors play a part in the sense like my school which was biased against people on benefits and council estates as pretty much outright telling people they will fail and never achieve anything (regardless of actual grades) and letting all the middle/upper working class pupils get every opportunity available as they said themselves it wasnt worth the effort to teach people from the council estates.

    In the entire school there was very few teachers who went out of their way to help kids, one gave everyone a chance so people were graded fairly (PE) so people liked him, another didnt bother what social class you were so people got good grades with him if they put in the effort, another quit the school a few years after I left after himself saying how bad the school treated kids from poorer backgrounds and went to the worst school in the entire region(a rough area full of drugs, violent crime) and won awards, no surprise people got good grades in his classes again if they put in effort(one of the classes I got 100% in) He even got a lot of people regraded because the school told him not to teach robotics in computer class as it never comes up and guess what the whole exam was on?! that was literally the whole class regraded due to him and put up.

    The school was so bad my mum wanted to be in the PTA and despite having a degree was told they didnt want her and they went out of their way to pester a local doctor who outright said he had no time and didnt want to do it.

    Then again thats also the same school where I had my shoulder broken by bullies and as they were from middle class homes the school refused to get involved and told us to not take it further or there will be "consequences" not realising my dad had a degree, ex policeman and with contacts in local council(and went to school with local MP) the kids were expelled but came back a month later due to parents saying they had "human rights" and saying similar nasty comments like I was from a welfare background that meant I was lying/provoked the kids etc.
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Factors play a part in the sense like my school which was biased against people on benefits and council estates as pretty much outright telling people they will fail and never achieve anything (regardless of actual grades) and letting all the middle/upper working class pupils get every opportunity available as they said themselves it wasnt worth the effort to teach people from the council estates.
    Can't comment on that.

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    In the entire school there was very few teachers who went out of their way to help kids, one gave everyone a chance so people were graded fairly (PE) so people liked him, another didnt bother what social class you were so people got good grades with him if they put in the effort, another quit the school a few years after I left after himself saying how bad the school treated kids from poorer backgrounds and went to the worst school in the entire region(a rough area full of drugs, violent crime) and won awards, no surprise people got good grades in his classes again if they put in effort(one of the classes I got 100% in) He even got a lot of people regraded because the school told him not to teach robotics in computer class as it never comes up and guess what the whole exam was on?! that was literally the whole class regraded due to him and put up.
    Can't comment on that.

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    The school was so bad my mum wanted to be in the PTA and despite having a degree was told they didnt want her and they went out of their way to pester a local doctor who outright said he had no time and didnt want to do it.

    Then again thats also the same school where I had my shoulder broken by bullies and as they were from middle class homes the school refused to get involved and told us to not take it further or there will be "consequences" not realising my dad had a degree, ex policeman and with contacts in local council(and went to school with local MP) the kids were expelled but came back a month later due to parents saying they had "human rights" and saying similar nasty comments like I was from a welfare background that meant I was lying/provoked the kids etc.
    You seem to have unresolved issues. Hardly ever is someone's education as dramatic as you try to convey.
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    (Original post by xylas)
    Can't comment on that.



    Can't comment on that.



    You seem to have unresolved issues. Hardly ever is someone's education as dramatic as you try to convey.
    No it was common where I lived, it was a old fashioned town, had a few friends with same problems, one being turned away from a ex Catholic school due to religious grounds.

    Either way you were screwed, either go to the rough school in a area where you would be assaulted, go to the "good" school (my one) which was a Academy, go to the school that had been around under 15 years (which to be honest was probably the best one) or go to the ex Catholic school with had bad reviews

    Just because you never experienced it doesn't mean it wasn't as common as you think, sure some schools and some teachers can be worse than others but doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    No it was common where I lived, it was a old fashioned town, had a few friends with same problems, one being turned away from a ex Catholic school due to religious grounds.

    Either way you were screwed, either go to the rough school in a area where you would be assaulted, go to the "good" school (my one) which was a Academy, go to the school that had been around under 15 years (which to be honest was probably the best one) or go to the ex Catholic school with had bad reviews

    Just because you never experienced it doesn't mean it wasn't as common as you think, sure some schools and some teachers can be worse than others but doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
    You show too much 'bad things happen to me' mentality.
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    (Original post by xylas)
    You show too much 'bad things happen to me' mentality.
    Maybe they do, did you think about that?

    Maybe due in fact due to living in a rough town with a big drug problem yet still old fashioned enough to have problems with certain classes.

    I am sure the arthritis I get from the attack I had doesn't happen, I am sure thet depression and social anxiety due to the bullying doesn't exist.

    Maybe if you stepped out into the real world and actually looked outside the corner of your eye you would notice.
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    Good old British class system
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Maybe they do, did you think about that?

    Maybe due in fact due to living in a rough town with a big drug problem yet still old fashioned enough to have problems with certain classes.

    I am sure the arthritis I get from the attack I had doesn't happen, I am sure thet depression and social anxiety due to the bullying doesn't exist.

    Maybe if you stepped out into the real world and actually looked outside the corner of your eye you would notice.
    We don't live in a deterministic world. Just because things happen doesn't mean you should let yourself be affected by them.
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    (Original post by _icecream)
    Good old British class system
    Nothing wrong with the class system, and I say that as someone on the "wrong end" of it.
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    (Original post by xylas)
    We don't live in a deterministic world. Just because things happen doesn't mean you should let yourself be affected by them.
    Easy thing to say if you aren't affected by issues in the first place.
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    (Original post by ZakiTheTory)
    I'm Conservative because I believe in a low tax society in which people can have aspiration and work their way up the ranks. I'm also not a big fan of the generous welfare system which people exploited and on which nothing was done about under Labour. With a strong economy comes strong progress so I believe that a budget surplus is crucial to our long term development.

    I also am a fan of the modern day party's position on social equality; promoting how anyone should have equal rights and opportunity regardless of their gender, race or sexuality. We have taken great steps to legalise gay marriage and propose legislation to narrow down the gender pay gap.

    I'm not one to think well of the current socialist 'Labour' party; they are in a complete mess and Corbyn is just digging a hole for himself with his ultra-left ideas which will not win over the centrists and neutral- at the moment the conservatives are the only logical party who can get things done.
    And how exactly does a low tax system help people climb up the ranks?

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    (Original post by Supersaps)
    Because I don't like politicians and I don't like politicians running things.


    And the left-wing utterly insists on giving these imbeciles more and more of our money, resources and time.

    The right-wing politicians are still idiots but at least they insist on less of our money, resources and time to f*ck things up with.

    I don't understand people can dislike politicians and still be left-wing, thereby insisting that we funnel billions of pounds into their idiocy.

    SS
    It's the left wingers who argue for cutting politicians pay, if you mean public services thats different


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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Easy thing to say if you aren't affected by issues in the first place.
    I've suffered many trials and hardships as has the next guy. Better to accept this truth than fool yourself you occupy a special place in the world.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    A 'compassionate conservative' might not make the country much worse, but conservatives, by their very nature, struggle to improve anything. They're the ones who benefit from the status quo after all.

    Johnson? That socially liberal Thatcherite? Nah thanks. I'd condemn his views if they weren't so opaque.
    Ahhh if only we had Major led Conservative government

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    (Original post by xylas)
    I've suffered many trials and hardships as has the next guy. Better to accept this truth than fool yourself you occupy a special place in the world.
    Who said I occupy a special place in the world though? The problems I had also affected other people in my town so it wasn't just me.

    That being said have you suffered through such things as a family member being murdered? Then former friends falling out with everyone in your family as they point fingers, and members of the public attacking the partner of the murdered person saying they killed them leading to their hand being smashed in door, attacked on street and beaten up?

    Being called slow and stupid at school when in fact you are autistic and getting good grades?

    Yes I experienced a lot of bad things in my life, I do think a lot more than many but to expect me to come out of it undamaged is wrong
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    (Original post by Mayhem™)
    I'm conservative because I believe people who earn more money than others should be allowed to keep the difference, not dish it out to the people who can't be bothered to get a job or didn't try at school.
    ^^^ Study this guy folks.
    We have a largely ignorant and uneducated population that contributes nothing towards society.

    Here, we see a textbook example of this.
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Who said I occupy a special place in the world though? The problems I had also affected other people in my town so it wasn't just me.

    That being said have you suffered through such things as a family member being murdered? Then former friends falling out with everyone in your family as they point fingers, and members of the public attacking the partner of the murdered person saying they killed them leading to their hand being smashed in door, attacked on street and beaten up?

    Being called slow and stupid at school when in fact you are autistic and getting good grades?

    Yes I experienced a lot of bad things in my life, I do think a lot more than many but to expect me to come out of it undamaged is wrong
    Yeah you don't. No-one does.

    No-one in my family has been murdered but that is obviously something that doesn't only affect an individual. I don't want to get personal but there are worse things that happen to people including myself that you have no idea about (and vice versa). I don't pity those with medical conditions.

    Everyone goes through massive problems in their life. Everyone. I think you know that but what you don't want to admit is that your problems are no worse than others'.

    Your attitude that "a lot more bad things happen to me than many others" in no way helps you at all, and if anything contributes to you being affected by your problems.

    Honestly I am trying to help you because I've had to battle with this mentality so many times (I used to have it and I've found it to be a common human natural response). It is 3am in the morning and I am not spending minutes of my life for 'shits and giggles' believe me.

    The best thing you can do from now on is to come around to thinking along the lines of:
    -Bad things happen.
    -I don't need to compare to others (some have it worse some of the time, some have it better some of the time).
    -I am in control of my life.
    -I can determine whether or not I get affected by bad things in my life.
    -I am not 'damaged goods'.
    -I have the capability to do any good thing I want.
    -The world is a better place with me in it.

    Please just give what I say a chance. But don't reject all of it because I know at least some of it is true.
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    (Original post by Mayhem™)
    I'm conservative because I believe people who earn more money than others should be allowed to keep the difference, not dish it out to the people who can't be bothered to get a job or didn't try at school.
    Already your blaming people for being poor, I believe people should be rewarded for hard work & there should be a system that helps progression not a system that keeps some people at the bottom for the top to benefit.
 
 
 
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