why do some guys have problems with feminist?
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I think there are a few different reasons;
- A small very vocal minority of "feminists" have taken the cause too far and are finding sexism where it really doesn't exist. As someone else said, whoever shouts the loudest will be heard. I think there's also women who use feminism to garner attention and justify behaviour which is clearly just to seek attention e.g. Kim Kardashian and Emily Ratajkowski posting naked selfies and pretending it's part of some crusade for women's rights, when in reality it's to further their own careers and attract more attention.
-Many men simply feel there is no need for feminism anymore (in this country at least). I think male privilege does come into play here as many things which are sexist simply do not affect men or men do not consider them to be sexist, therefore they don't see them and downplay or dismiss sexism. The same way a white person will be blind to a lot of racism because it's something they have never or rarely experience and may downplay or dismiss acts of racism or believe they are rare isolated incidents.
-There is an attitude of "well there are things which are sexist against men so you have no cause for complaint". I agree that there are laws and attitudes which are sexist against men, particularly when it comes to fathers rights. However, if you look more in depth at this, you will realise that these laws were created almost exclusively by men and are due to child rearing being seen as "women's work" and something women are naturally better at. Society still at large believes that women should have the responsibility of raising children while men should go out and work. Women are being blamed for "unfair" laws against men when most if not all the laws in this country were created and decided upon by men. Also, remember that most judges are men. If men are getting unfair treatment in the courts it's usually due to other men not women.
-A small amount of men are angry that women are trying to or have "stopped" them from doing things they believe they should be entitled to do. They may believe they are entitled to be sexist under the banner of "freedom of speech" and "having their own opinions" and women who object are being too sensitive or are "feminazis" and "man haters". Some don't even realise they are being sexist. It doesn't help when there are a lot of women also making sexist comments and using derogatory language against other women, as it reinforces the opinion that it is acceptable and correct in our society e.g the different attitudes towards promiscuity between men and women, I think women get judged just as harshly by other women as they do men in regards to this. Women should stand together instead of dragging each other down.
I think there are wrongs on both sides of the debate, but by in large, most people, men and women are for equal rights. It's a shame that feminisim is misunderstood and has become a dirty word, many people now refute being called a feminist despite actually agreeing with what feminism ultimately stands for, which is equal rights for men and women.
- A small very vocal minority of "feminists" have taken the cause too far and are finding sexism where it really doesn't exist. As someone else said, whoever shouts the loudest will be heard. I think there's also women who use feminism to garner attention and justify behaviour which is clearly just to seek attention e.g. Kim Kardashian and Emily Ratajkowski posting naked selfies and pretending it's part of some crusade for women's rights, when in reality it's to further their own careers and attract more attention.
-Many men simply feel there is no need for feminism anymore (in this country at least). I think male privilege does come into play here as many things which are sexist simply do not affect men or men do not consider them to be sexist, therefore they don't see them and downplay or dismiss sexism. The same way a white person will be blind to a lot of racism because it's something they have never or rarely experience and may downplay or dismiss acts of racism or believe they are rare isolated incidents.
-There is an attitude of "well there are things which are sexist against men so you have no cause for complaint". I agree that there are laws and attitudes which are sexist against men, particularly when it comes to fathers rights. However, if you look more in depth at this, you will realise that these laws were created almost exclusively by men and are due to child rearing being seen as "women's work" and something women are naturally better at. Society still at large believes that women should have the responsibility of raising children while men should go out and work. Women are being blamed for "unfair" laws against men when most if not all the laws in this country were created and decided upon by men. Also, remember that most judges are men. If men are getting unfair treatment in the courts it's usually due to other men not women.
-A small amount of men are angry that women are trying to or have "stopped" them from doing things they believe they should be entitled to do. They may believe they are entitled to be sexist under the banner of "freedom of speech" and "having their own opinions" and women who object are being too sensitive or are "feminazis" and "man haters". Some don't even realise they are being sexist. It doesn't help when there are a lot of women also making sexist comments and using derogatory language against other women, as it reinforces the opinion that it is acceptable and correct in our society e.g the different attitudes towards promiscuity between men and women, I think women get judged just as harshly by other women as they do men in regards to this. Women should stand together instead of dragging each other down.
I think there are wrongs on both sides of the debate, but by in large, most people, men and women are for equal rights. It's a shame that feminisim is misunderstood and has become a dirty word, many people now refute being called a feminist despite actually agreeing with what feminism ultimately stands for, which is equal rights for men and women.
I wonder if the idea of gender roles is subjected to critique by the reasonable feminists?
It's not that females SHOULD stay at home to take care of their offspring because they're of the female sex, but quite importantly because they tend to be BETTER at the job than males, in terms of the outcome. While gender is probably a derivative of sex to start with, it has gained its development over a very long period of time, and things have somehow become what they are right now.
It's not that females SHOULD stay at home to take care of their offspring because they're of the female sex, but quite importantly because they tend to be BETTER at the job than males, in terms of the outcome. While gender is probably a derivative of sex to start with, it has gained its development over a very long period of time, and things have somehow become what they are right now.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by joecphillips
Where did you get those statistics I have saw lower for the uk
Those figures were from a study in the US.
Original post by ANM775
That's clearly not the reason.
The reason is that giving men equal rights to a child would mean the female loosing some of her rights ......something feminists do want.
A person who is striving for true equality would strive for this on ALL issue's, not just the issue's which happen to benefit their gender!
The reason is that giving men equal rights to a child would mean the female loosing some of her rights ......something feminists do want.
A person who is striving for true equality would strive for this on ALL issue's, not just the issue's which happen to benefit their gender!
Well child custody automatically going to a woman is based on a stereotype around femininity (that women = nurturing, motherly, etc.) and that men aren't, men are cold, unemotional, etc. Feminism is against these gender stereotypes, as they are harmful to both men and women. Its like when a father looks after his kids and people exclaim aw wow he's pulling his weight what a great dad, as though its some huge achievement or something out of the ordinary for a dad to take over care duties. Its because people assume certain behaviours are associated with certain genders.
Its also why women can get lenient sentences for committing crimes, because male judges assume women aren't "bad" naturally, that its not in their make-up to harm others, its about chivalry rather than being unbiased or succumbing to stereotypes.
At least, this is my opinion and my interpretation.
Original post by AxSirlotl
Those figures were from a study in the US.
One source in the uk estimates only 7% of people in Britain are feminists
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/only-7-per-cent-of-britons-consider-themselves-feminists/
It's funny that people say men oppose equality when
"men were more supportive generally of equality between the sexes - 86 per cent wanted it for the women in their lives - compared to 74 per cent of women."
Just in order to come up with a brief summary of the answer to the question. It is not a group of women standing up for their rights. It was, once upon a time when women didn't have equal rights.
The theme of yesterday's 'international women's day was #beboldforchange. That's all very well. But what about the last group OK to vilify, the pale, stale male? Cant men be bold for change too? Or is that sexist? It's about time someone destroyed feminism head on.
The gender pay gap!?!?! It's based on the fact that women, even if they don't have children, they generally take longer and more frequent holidays. So it's a bunch of lies that doesn't take anything into account.
The patriarchy!?!?! I dismiss it on the principle that if it had such a grip on women they wouldn't be able to question the fact it was there.
I cant think of any feministic idea that holds any ground with me because all the clues point towards the simple fact that we haven't reached an age of gender equality, women dominate in every field of everything. And then feminists lose the political battle they play 'victim blaming' on men.
The theme of yesterday's 'international women's day was #beboldforchange. That's all very well. But what about the last group OK to vilify, the pale, stale male? Cant men be bold for change too? Or is that sexist? It's about time someone destroyed feminism head on.
The gender pay gap!?!?! It's based on the fact that women, even if they don't have children, they generally take longer and more frequent holidays. So it's a bunch of lies that doesn't take anything into account.
The patriarchy!?!?! I dismiss it on the principle that if it had such a grip on women they wouldn't be able to question the fact it was there.
I cant think of any feministic idea that holds any ground with me because all the clues point towards the simple fact that we haven't reached an age of gender equality, women dominate in every field of everything. And then feminists lose the political battle they play 'victim blaming' on men.
Original post by Flying Pig
Reasons I can think of:
-Superiority rather than equality.
-If I took a girl on a date, most girls expect you to pay for them (not equality)
-The I can't hit a girl argument
Could think of more possibilities but I'm tired it's late
-Superiority rather than equality.
-If I took a girl on a date, most girls expect you to pay for them (not equality)
-The I can't hit a girl argument
Could think of more possibilities but I'm tired it's late
That's not feminism. That's stupidity.
I'm a feminist, though I'm afraid to say it outloud because of the minority who've ruined it.
(I'm not looking to start an argument, by the way! I'm sorry if it comes across that way. Just wanted to give my thoughts and opinions.)
Firstly, I don't believe feminists are superior. I'm most certainly not. I believe that rights should exist for both men and women, and that means equal pay, fair treatment, etc. Women are not superior to men; men are not superior to women. I believe that if a man is being abused, he should have the same treatment and be taken as serious as a woman; he should not be ridiculed and made fun of. (That's just an example!)
The second point is ridiculous. Any person who expects the other to pay, unless it's been clearly stated, is just—no.
As for the hitting a girl argument, I believe, as a female myself, that a woman should not hit a male unless she expects consequences. (I hope I phrased that right?) The same goes for a man. I find it ridiculous if a female thinks she can hit a male and not have any consequences. I wouldn't randomly go up to a guy, hit him and then yell, "You can't hit me, I'm female!" In short, I don't think anybody should hit anyone unless provoked, e.g being attacked and hitting back in self-defence.
Once again, I'm sorry! Just thought I'd quickly share some things. Have a lovely evening/ night!
Personally, I would define what your talking about as 2nd wave feminist (first wave = suffragettes / 2nd wave = sixty's / 3rd wave = This new, aggressive, sociopathic, politically correct sudo-feminism). But I'm getting of the point, I was trying to say I agree.
Original post by Anonymous
That's not feminism. That's stupidity.
I'm a feminist, though I'm afraid to say it outloud because of the minority who've ruined it.
(I'm not looking to start an argument, by the way! I'm sorry if it comes across that way. Just wanted to give my thoughts and opinions.)
Firstly, I don't believe feminists are superior. I'm most certainly not. I believe that rights should exist for both men and women, and that means equal pay, fair treatment, etc. Women are not superior to men; men are not superior to women. I believe that if a man is being abused, he should have the same treatment and be taken as serious as a woman; he should not be ridiculed and made fun of. (That's just an example!)
The second point is ridiculous. Any person who expects the other to pay, unless it's been clearly stated, is just—no.
As for the hitting a girl argument, I believe, as a female myself, that a woman should not hit a male unless she expects consequences. (I hope I phrased that right?) The same goes for a man. I find it ridiculous if a female thinks she can hit a male and not have any consequences. I wouldn't randomly go up to a guy, hit him and then yell, "You can't hit me, I'm female!" In short, I don't think anybody should hit anyone unless provoked, e.g being attacked and hitting back in self-defence.
Once again, I'm sorry! Just thought I'd quickly share some things. Have a lovely evening/ night!
I'm a feminist, though I'm afraid to say it outloud because of the minority who've ruined it.
(I'm not looking to start an argument, by the way! I'm sorry if it comes across that way. Just wanted to give my thoughts and opinions.)
Firstly, I don't believe feminists are superior. I'm most certainly not. I believe that rights should exist for both men and women, and that means equal pay, fair treatment, etc. Women are not superior to men; men are not superior to women. I believe that if a man is being abused, he should have the same treatment and be taken as serious as a woman; he should not be ridiculed and made fun of. (That's just an example!)
The second point is ridiculous. Any person who expects the other to pay, unless it's been clearly stated, is just—no.
As for the hitting a girl argument, I believe, as a female myself, that a woman should not hit a male unless she expects consequences. (I hope I phrased that right?) The same goes for a man. I find it ridiculous if a female thinks she can hit a male and not have any consequences. I wouldn't randomly go up to a guy, hit him and then yell, "You can't hit me, I'm female!" In short, I don't think anybody should hit anyone unless provoked, e.g being attacked and hitting back in self-defence.
Once again, I'm sorry! Just thought I'd quickly share some things. Have a lovely evening/ night!
Just to clarify, you're a feminist but not a 'militant' feminist
Original post by Connor27
There's definitely a problem with attitudes and biases against women though (although this works both ways); however it's been proven throughout history that the only way to change behaviours is with time; or a brutal totalitarian government to enforce your aims (and if you want that, you're a crazy person.)
To clarify; I support moderate, liberal feminists who campaign for women's rights in the third world and also seek to peacefully change attitudes in the west which causes things like the wage gap etc.
To answer your initial question though; it's the radical, cultural, misandristic, so-called "feminazis" that puts men off feminism, as the old saying goes "those who shout loudest, get heard"; ergo even though these types are a minority of feminists, they appear to represent the entire movement, which gives it a bad name.
There's definitely a problem with attitudes and biases against women though (although this works both ways); however it's been proven throughout history that the only way to change behaviours is with time; or a brutal totalitarian government to enforce your aims (and if you want that, you're a crazy person.)
To clarify; I support moderate, liberal feminists who campaign for women's rights in the third world and also seek to peacefully change attitudes in the west which causes things like the wage gap etc.
To answer your initial question though; it's the radical, cultural, misandristic, so-called "feminazis" that puts men off feminism, as the old saying goes "those who shout loudest, get heard"; ergo even though these types are a minority of feminists, they appear to represent the entire movement, which gives it a bad name.
And pretty much all of the real feminists I have engaged with are ardent supporters of men's rights, too. However, when people like CookieButter look at feminism, they look at a few crazy examples here and there and end of for them. It's like judging Muslims by the actions of terrorists (note that I actually have very negative views on Islam as an ideology, but I would not judge what Muslims do by the few terrorists).
The last paragraph, partly I already addressed, they are inherently against feminism because they feel threatened, and use these very loud vocal "feminazis" as examples. The next thing, I have actually debated with feminists in the same way, "maybe you should be less aggressive in debating", the resounding reply could be summed up by what we know from the workplace: an aggressive man is seen as strong and confident, an aggressive woman is cold and a *****.
Original post by Anonymous
it ****in annoys me. like there just a bunch of women fighting for our rights and I am so proud of them for being so strong. some women are victims of rape,abuse,domestic violence,slander etc(and I'm not saying men are not victims of this. some are but in most cases it's women okay!). anyway why do some guys have a problem with that?
I have a degree of sympathy with that opinion (if you're not a militant feminist). The problem with militant feminism is that it comes from the 'liberal left'. And it's impossible to be liberal and militant. Although I do think its the fault of the 'liberal left' not feminist militancy. I just think you can't pretend your liberal and then get angry at an anti-feminist opinion, because if you can't take another opinion your not liberal at all.
Original post by Flying Pig
Reasons I can think of:
-Superiority rather than equality.
-If I took a girl on a date, most girls expect you to pay for them (not equality)
-The I can't hit a girl argument
Could think of more possibilities but I'm tired it's late
-Superiority rather than equality.
-If I took a girl on a date, most girls expect you to pay for them (not equality)
-The I can't hit a girl argument
Could think of more possibilities but I'm tired it's late
- When your privilege is challenged it sure looks like the others actually want superiority
- Those will not be feminists, and maybe you should stop pandering to these kind of girls. Undoubtedly women did have it worse in the past, can you blame them for keeping up with one of the few traditions that benefit them? Btw, this is hugely ironic, in the past men paying was a direct result of huge misogyny as well as misandry. Women did not in general have the ability to pay because of misogyny, but men were judged by how successful they were (the whole diamond engagement ring is another example of men being made to show off their success). The entire burden of "providing" was placed on men, the whole "men must be strong", "men don't cry" is misandry (and fyi, most feminists are against this, too, because unlike people make out, they don't want superiority, they do want equality).
- You can't. But do you know what, you can't hit men either. Or children. Or anyone for that matter. And instead of using those few videos where a girl hits a boy and expects to get away with it as evidence that feminist like these double standards (the logical jump is insane anyway) you should feel sorry for these girls for still having been brought up with such sexist ideas.
Original post by ReubenBenkel
I don't have a problem with feminism - I'm all for equal rights.
I have a problem with the people who think they are feminists, when in fact they strive to be above men in the social scale - not equal with them. This is what modern feminists have become and they have gone against everything the Suffragists stood for (the Suffragettes is what everything thinks started feminisms, but they were just the more well known group).
So yeah, I like feminism, I dislike modern "feminism".
(I know there will be some real feminists out there)
This video literally is how I feel about feminism.
I have a problem with the people who think they are feminists, when in fact they strive to be above men in the social scale - not equal with them. This is what modern feminists have become and they have gone against everything the Suffragists stood for (the Suffragettes is what everything thinks started feminisms, but they were just the more well known group).
So yeah, I like feminism, I dislike modern "feminism".
(I know there will be some real feminists out there)
This video literally is how I feel about feminism.
Provide evidence that this is true.
You won't be able to because you are biased by social media where it is easy to spread the few examples where this actually applies.
Hugely ironic that you talk about people "thinking they are feminists" (implying you know what that really means) when you have shown yourself to have no idea what it means.
Original post by ANM775
If I was a "male Feminist" supporting Feminism I'm sure you wouldn't be saying that right now.
dat cherry picking runs deep in feminists i see
dat cherry picking runs deep in feminists i see
Your voluntary evidence of you knowing nothing about feminism is delightful.
Feminists in general do not consider men to be feminists, for the very fact that they do not have the same experience of growing up as a woman (think white people being black rights activists). So no, she would still be saying that. They are very happy to have men supporting them, though, so why don't you engage with them and see what that is like? Instead of telling women what it means to be feminists and what they should be doing instead. Because you know, men haven't told women what to do enough already.
Original post by Anonymous
As a person of colour, I honestly find these sorts of identity politics so abhorrent, you are doing that which you strive against, grouping white people as having more rights and so called white privilege. It is this exact phraseology that got Trump elected, ignoring those white working class males from the Rust belt who had lost their jobs yet still calling them the privileged. And just in case you are going to say that clinton got more votes, you have to understand 2 things:
1) the clinton campain spent over twice the money the Trump campaign did.
2) The system they had was the electoral college, not popular vote so that is what you campaign for so being retroactive in the election decision is pointless. Trump didnt campaign in highly populous states like California and New york which were safe democratic.
What are these rights?
1) the clinton campain spent over twice the money the Trump campaign did.
2) The system they had was the electoral college, not popular vote so that is what you campaign for so being retroactive in the election decision is pointless. Trump didnt campaign in highly populous states like California and New york which were safe democratic.
What are these rights?
Indians for Trump?
Looooooooooooooool
ps I call bs anyway.
Original post by DanB1991
Ever thought of the social stigma of fathers being the primary carer for their children? It's still 'presumed' that the primary carer is the women, while legally this is discrimination, it's often required for the male to prove he is the primary caregiver in the court system. Men are also still often belittled for deciding to be a stay at home parent......
And feminists would love to change that. Why don't you work with them to achieve that?
ps one of the most heard annoyances that women have about men is exactly what you are displaying. if you shout "me me me" (i.e. immediately start talking about men) when a women's rights issue is brought up, it shows that a) you have no intention of listening to it and b) you don't actually care about men's rights, you just use it to shut down women. Your plight doesn't make theirs any less.
Original post by Connor27
Firstly; slander is not a crime, freedom of speech, read it up; I find it distgusting that you compare essentially someone getting their feelings hurt to horrific violations like rape, abuse and domestic violence (all of which are horrible.)
Also; as it stands western women have equal rights legally compared to men; in fact it could be argued that men are actually discrimated against in the legal system (look at 98% of death row inmates in America being men and how men consistently get harsher sentences for the same crime throughout the western world.)
There's definitely a problem with attitudes and biases against women though (although this works both ways); however it's been proven throughout history that the only way to change behaviours is with time; or a brutal totalitarian government to enforce your aims (and if you want that, you're a crazy person.)
To clarify; I support moderate, liberal feminists who campaign for women's rights in the third world and also seek to peacefully change attitudes in the west which causes things like the wage gap etc.
To answer your initial question though; it's the radical, cultural, misandristic, so-called "feminazis" that puts men off feminism, as the old saying goes "those who shout loudest, get heard"; ergo even though these types are a minority of feminists, they appear to represent the entire movement, which gives it a bad name.
Also; as it stands western women have equal rights legally compared to men; in fact it could be argued that men are actually discrimated against in the legal system (look at 98% of death row inmates in America being men and how men consistently get harsher sentences for the same crime throughout the western world.)
There's definitely a problem with attitudes and biases against women though (although this works both ways); however it's been proven throughout history that the only way to change behaviours is with time; or a brutal totalitarian government to enforce your aims (and if you want that, you're a crazy person.)
To clarify; I support moderate, liberal feminists who campaign for women's rights in the third world and also seek to peacefully change attitudes in the west which causes things like the wage gap etc.
To answer your initial question though; it's the radical, cultural, misandristic, so-called "feminazis" that puts men off feminism, as the old saying goes "those who shout loudest, get heard"; ergo even though these types are a minority of feminists, they appear to represent the entire movement, which gives it a bad name.
Slander is a crime in the UK and so could be prosecuted. You are probably thinking of the US.
Original post by yudothis
And feminists would love to change that. Why don't you work with them to achieve that?
ps one of the most heard annoyances that women have about men is exactly what you are displaying. if you shout "me me me" (i.e. immediately start talking about men) when a women's rights issue is brought up, it shows that a) you have no intention of listening to it and b) you don't actually care about men's rights, you just use it to shut down women. Your plight doesn't make theirs any less.
ps one of the most heard annoyances that women have about men is exactly what you are displaying. if you shout "me me me" (i.e. immediately start talking about men) when a women's rights issue is brought up, it shows that a) you have no intention of listening to it and b) you don't actually care about men's rights, you just use it to shut down women. Your plight doesn't make theirs any less.
Are you serious?
Feminism today has turned into a man-hating, confrontational and generally nasty movement. Women are paid the same as men for the same work done in the west and actually young women are paid more than young men for the same work. Women have all of the rights that men do in the west. Indeed there are days dedicated to women, events and graduate opportunities only open to women and a wide array of other benefits for women that men don't get.
Original post by aspire.1a
Men in particular should educate their tiny bird brains to learn about women! Some men are so narrow-minded that it almost makes me laugh!
Ridiculous! I am a feminist and I agree 100 percent with everything they do
Ridiculous! I am a feminist and I agree 100 percent with everything they do
What the f**k are you on about?
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