votes just for taxpayers

minors-under 18's
students: undergrads
stupid: ask the ones who decided under 18's don't have the right vote
don't contribute to society: don't pay tax (VAT doesn't count because it is the same for everybody, not a percentage of your income).

And which category to you personally fall into? minor or undergrad or just plain stupid.

By the way, VAT is a percentage of your spending, which typically is a function of your income.

Reply 41

ProdC

OP

7

Original post by Tiger Rag

I don't mean the retired who still work. I mean the retired who pay tax on their pensions who don't work.

And why shouldn't we vote? We still pay VAT on things.

If they pay tax on their income, yes.
VAT is the same for everybody. I answered a similar question earlier in the thread

Reply 42

Tiger Rag

22

Original post by ProdC

minors-under 18's
students: undergrads
stupid: ask the ones who decided under 18's don't have the right vote
don't contribute to society: don't pay tax (VAT doesn't count because it is the same for everybody, not a percentage of your income).

Why can post graduate students vote but not undergraduates?

Reply 43

IWMTom

20

Original post by Doonesbury

By the way, VAT is a percentage of your spending, which typically is a function of your income.

THIS.

Reply 44

ProdC

OP

7

Original post by Doonesbury

And which category to you personally fall into? minor or undergrad or just plain stupid.

By the way, VAT is a percentage of your spending, which typically is a function of your income.

undergrad.
VAT (if I am not wrong), is a percentage value of the thing you buy. If an unemployed buys a bottle of water, and a millionaire does, they will pay the very same VAT (correct me if I am wrong).

Reply 45

IWMTom

20

Original post by ProdC

undergrad.
VAT (if I am not wrong), is a percentage value of the thing you buy. If an unemployed buys a bottle of water, and a millionaire does, they will pay the very same VAT (correct me if I am wrong).

A millionaire may buy a flash car and pay VAT on it, an umemployed person is not going to do that.

Reply 46

Doones

21

Original post by ProdC

undergrad.
VAT (if I am not wrong), is a percentage value of the thing you buy. If an unemployed buys a bottle of water, and a millionaire does, they will pay the very same VAT (correct me if I am wrong).

Phew, so by your reckoning you are stupid and your views don't count. Well you got that right :smile:

A millionaire usually buys more VATable products than an unemployed person. But they are both paying VAT.

Reply 47

ProdC

OP

7

Original post by Tiger Rag

Why can post graduate students vote but not undergraduates?

I was a bit fast and didn't explain this:
I didn't mean all undergrads and all postgrads, but usually postgrads do have a job and pay income tax, while undergrads don't always do this.

Reply 48

mashbbk

18

What if you was a tax payer - but due to bad governing, you no longer were a tax payer. Should you not be allowed to cast a vote?

What if you were never a tax payer in the first place, not because you wasn't willing, but due to a broken system?

Reply 49

ProdC

OP

7

Original post by Doonesbury

A millionaire usually buys more VATable products than an unemployed person. But they are both paying VAT.

True, but I don't see where are you going with this.
VAT, unlike income tax, is almost impossible to avoid. Everybody buys stuff and pays some VAT.
I am treating tax as binary in this case. Either you pay it, or you don't, and doesn't matter how much.
Whether we treat VAT and value of tax or not, would be discussed in a model where we multiply the value/effect of the vote of a person by the percentage of their tax. But this would mean that rich people would have a more valuable vote, and a bug majority would disagree with this.

Reply 50

Doones

21

Original post by ProdC

a bug majority would disagree with this.

I think the bug majority already disagrees with your income tax "idea". I refer you back to my first sentence in the previous reply.

Reply 51

ProdC

OP

7

Original post by Doonesbury

Phew, so by your reckoning you are stupid and your views don't count. Well you got that right :smile:

A millionaire usually buys more VATable products than an unemployed person. But they are both paying VAT.

By stupid I meant minors, because this is the reason 5 year olds don't vote, isn't it?
But no, you are right, I believe my views should count less when choosing the government because I am young, inexperienced, and haven't brought anything useful to this society yet.

Reply 52

ProdC

OP

7

Original post by mashbbk

What if you was a tax payer - but due to bad governing, you no longer were a tax payer. Should you not be allowed to cast a vote?

What if you were never a tax payer in the first place, not because you wasn't willing, but due to a broken system?

These are special cases and I don't think I can think of anything specific like that happening. And I am discussing the moral/ethical issue of such a system, not the bureaucratic issues that come with it, I don't have a degree in law.

Reply 53

999tigger

19

Original post by ProdC

These are special cases and I don't think I can think of anything specific like that happening. And I am discussing the moral/ethical issue of such a system, not the bureaucratic issues that come with it, I don't have a degree in law.

You dont believe any pensioners, students, stay at home parents or the disabled have any interest in society.

Reply 54

ProdC

OP

7

Original post by 999tigger

You dont believe any pensioners, students, stay at home parents or the disabled have any interest in society.

They have an interest. But are they fit to decide the fate of the country?

Reply 55

Tiger Rag

22

Original post by ProdC

They have an interest. But are they fit to decide the fate of the country?

Why is a working person more fit to decide the fate of a country?

Reply 56

999tigger

19

Original post by ProdC

They have an interest. But are they fit to decide the fate of the country?

What is your criteria for fit?
Surely older people have much more experience and wisdom than you?
Are you a parent?

Reply 57

ProdC

OP

7

Original post by Tiger Rag

Why is a working person more fit to decide the fate of a country?

Because this person does a (direct) effort for the benefit of the country.

Reply 58

Tiger Rag

22

Original post by ProdC

Because this person does a (direct) effort for the benefit of the country.

And so does a carer. But because they're not employed and therefore, paying no tax, they shouldn't, according to you, have the right to vote. Even though they save the country billions each year.

Reply 59

ProdC

OP

7

Original post by 999tigger

What is your criteria for fit?
Surely older people have much more experience and wisdom than you?
Are you a parent?

I am not a parent.
Older people are quite likely to vote old-fashioned systems which aren't necessarily benefiting the country. If you had old people decide everything, many things such as LGBT rights (I am not lgbt if thats the next thing you're going to ask me) would not be available today.

votes just for taxpayers

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