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I'm a Muslim and these are my views of Islam in Britain (and how things can change)

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Original post by Robby2312
Or we could actively kill it? Religion in England at least is way down from what it was only a couple of generations ago.And theists only outnumber atheists in uneducated parts of the world.The more educated a population is in science particularly the less likely they are to be religious.Reason and atheism should be promoted above religion.


You can certainly try but it would never work whereas methods outlined in OP may help integration
Original post by Quava
Atheism is just the disbelief in God. If people want to believe in God, how does that make them uneducated?


It shows a lack of critical thinking skills.Regardless with increasing education religiosity decreases in general.The whole concept of God was thought up because people could not explain things.Back then we knew nothing about the universe so a belief in God could be justified nowadays not so much.
Religion won't be killed, it's impossible.
Reformation maybe, but religions like Islam are simply impossible to reform. And I say this as a Muslim.
Original post by glad-he-ate-her
You can certainly try but it would never work whereas methods outlined in OP may help integration


The methods outlined in the OP are a good start but they don't address the root cause which is this fundamentalist wahhabism that is practiced in the likes of Saudi Arabia.
Original post by Kyou
Religion won't be killed, it's impossible.
Reformation maybe, but religions like Islam are simply impossible to reform. And I say this as a Muslim.


It's not impossible nobody worships Ra or Zeus anymore do they?
Reply 45
Original post by Robby2312
It shows a lack of critical thinking skills.Regardless with increasing education religiosity decreases in general.The whole concept of God was thought up because people could not explain things.Back then we knew nothing about the universe so a belief in God could be justified nowadays not so much.


I was thinking of all the most common and proven possibilities of the creation of the Earth. The scientific concept of 0=1 has me baffled and somehow, quite interestingly, God is the only thing that seems to make more sense than any other explanation. I have also done thorough research to find that the scientific theories cannot, and have never been fully proven- they are the closest explanation to the Universe other than a Creator. It may sound ludicrous, but this is solely my opinion.
Many scientists are religious to. They also believe in God. I don't think it shows a lack of critical thinking as God and the Scientific theories are just made up reasons to the Earth. They are interpretations and should, therefore, be valued as much as each other.

Regardless, out of interest, say you were to die and you found that there was a God, what would you do- such as your reaction or maybe your thought process?
Reply 46
Original post by Robby2312
The methods outlined in the OP are a good start but they don't address the root cause which is this fundamentalist wahhabism that is practiced in the likes of Saudi Arabia.


Very good point, this is how...thanks for reminding me. I'm gonna post this on OP as well

https://twitter.com/rizmc/status/871696593036201984
Original post by Ua3142
My Islamic knowledge is limited. I'm not gonna berate you with quotes from the Qur'an or anything. I don't want to start a massive argument.

Not going to lie, I began to doubt islam, I've questioned everything I thought I knew. I've also questioned things in the Qur'an, things my parents told me. As well as...why do Muslims stay quite when terrorist attacks happen.

I thought that, Muslims like my family were too scared to face the truth. Maybe Islam is really a religion of Violence?

But it boils down to fact that, most Muslims (IMO) are as uneducated as me.

Unrelated but for example; last night leader of UKIP, Mr Paul Nuttall came on TV. He talked about How the UK government are giving money to the Saudis and that they are funding Terrorism in Britain, breeding Terrorism Ideology in UK mosques...
I said 'I agree', then my sister said 'OMG YOU CAN'T SAY THAT!, WHY YOU SAYING THAT :O'
...but I told her about the Arms deal between the Saudis and the UK and the fact that they are bombing Yemen, so they aren't exactly saints... But idk about funding terrorism.
She then agreed.

Point is, people jump to conclusions waaay to easily. Muslims are waaay to defensive. People need to be open-minded. You have to question things. Because saying ISIS doesn't = ISLAM is not good enough, explain why, if you don't know find out from a credible source (talk about that further later on).
Once people explore what ISIS is, they'll find out that its way more complicated, its more political then anything.

Back to my point, most muslims are uneducated as me. Why? There aren't many good sources, there arent any decent well educated imaams in the UK. Most are from Pakistan, India or Bangladesh. They also don't speak English. And they only care about older people and family, ignoring youngsters...isolating them in the process.

This is the starting point, this is where youngsters start to question Islam. Few things happen from here:
- Young muslims explore Islam in a credible way on their own. They become decent Muslims later in life like my brother.
- Or young Muslims become teachers pets in essence, becoming incredibly religious in a traditional sense. Take everything their local imaam says as gospel.
- Or young Muslims don't really care about Islam, but pray Friday prayers some times.
- Or Young muslims turn away from Islam all together denounce it because of what they think they know. Becoming Atheist.
- BUT SOME young muslims. These youngsters are the most vulnerable and easily manipulated. They idk how find the twisted ideology of Isis some how.
There are some dodgy imaams out there who need to he ousted for what they preach, that's a different matter.

How do we prevent people from joining ISIS and stop young muslims becoming alienated?

In the UK, there HAS to be a reform. Not of Islam, but of how it is taught. (I said not of Islam, because...I'll get to that later)

So reform:

- QUESTION YOUR IMAAM! I'm sure Muslims who read this have one or two questions about Islam, ask them, don't be afraid. If they say don't ask, or say questioning Islam is haraam, or if they don't know - bun them. They are no good. Instead find the answer out from well educated imaams yourself...

- There needs to be more well educated, British born imaams in the UK. People like Ajmal Masroor. Ones that don't shy away from the hard questions we youngsters might have. Who are welcoming and who have studied religions to the point where they can answer any question you have.

- Oust the dodgy imaams or get rid of the traditional imaams from back home. They only encourage community separation and inclusiveness. That's bad. Prophet Muhammad PBUH was very welcoming to all faiths (ik some of you reading might have opinions on him from reading stuff online, that's a different matter). Bad imaams create division and tension between muslims and non Muslims in the UK. Not good.

- Greatly increase local community engagement. Mainly, let local community question your beliefs and learn from you. Reformed mosques should regularly host sessions/ talks where non Muslims can go in and talk without the fear of being judged or being called a racist. Good imaams won't get butt hurt if you question Islamic teachings. (I'm going to email the Muslim council of britian to find out how I can encourage this in my local area).
And then encourage your non Muslim friends to go, so they can hear different POV, and you can also learn a thing or two as well.

- Young muslims should do their own research from credible sources. Stop listening to your parents and find out for yourself.

- ALL Young Muslims should educate themselves of other religions. We've all got a lot to learn from Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism etc.

- Reformed mosques should teach the history and politics of Islam in recent years. So we can learn where things went wrong and we can learn from our mistakes.

- Be accepting of people other than Muslims. Whether that's atheist, Christians or the lgbtq community. If you don't agree with being gay. Fine, you don't need to, but you have to be welcoming and accepting.

-Even if you think your religious or not, question everything.

-Lastly this is very important (back to why I said a reform to how to teach Islam not a reform to Islam itself)
, Teachers at mosques shouldn't teach the Quran in Arabic to kids from a young age. Teach them in English.
Actually... Having said that, young kids shouldn't be allowed to read directly from the Quran until they reach a level of intelligence. Instead, teach them the basics of Islam (from a well educated POV) explaining things clearly and openly.
Once they have understood it in English, by all means read it in Arabic, but understanding is waaay more important than anything.

Why put off reading Quran in English till kids reach a certain level of intelligence? Because Quran is deeply complicated book to read.

[Whether Islam is peaceful or extreme is not just a matter of interpretation, and for the simple reason that the Quran tells you exactly how to interpret it. Once you’ve read how it works, you’ll understand exactly why the verses above aren’t actually calling for "Death to the West"... ]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/are-peaceful-muslims-in-denial-about-their-religion-10084960.html

- you don't need to agree with the link, but its certainly interesting and worth reading.

Look, I don't want there to be any more arguments between Muslims and non Muslims. In here, social media or in real life. I don't care what HAnwar has to say or people who hate Islam.

We need to start a movement in Britain before it is too late.


If only more people were like you, we would probably live in a much safer and harmonious society. It is people like you that have to change Islam, and probably will change it. Change takes time, it took Christianity hundreds of years to progress to the state of tolerance it has now (for the most part). You always need to question your supposed spiritual gurus and leaders, otherwise humanity is doomed to regress.
Reply 48
Original post by Kyou
Religion won't be killed, it's impossible.
Reformation maybe, but religions like Islam are simply impossible to reform. And I say this as a Muslim.


Why, as a Muslim, do you believe there should be a reformation of Islam? Do you think it is violent?
Original post by Quava
Why, as a Muslim, do you believe there should be a reformation of Islam? Do you think it is violent?


I don't believe there should be a reformation at all. I feel the religion is perfect as it is. My words may have gave you the wrong impression, I apologise for that.

What I believe however is that more emphasis should be put on integration of young Muslim youth who feel alienated due to this growing 'us vs them' mentality.
Reply 50
Original post by Kyou
I don't believe there should be a reformation at all. I feel the religion is perfect as it is. My words may have gave you the wrong impression, I apologise for that.

What I believe however is that more emphasis should be put on integration of young Muslim youth who feel alienated due to this growing 'us vs them' mentality.


Great, I think Islam is perfect too. And I also agree with what you said. :smile:
I don't think I read your previous comment properly and so got the impression you wanted reformation, my apologies.
Original post by Kyou
Religion won't be killed, it's impossible.


Interesting to note your use of terminology when something goes against religion.

Original post by Kyou

Reformation maybe, but religions like Islam are simply impossible to reform. And I say this as a Muslim.


Can you elaborate why Islam is the impossible to reform?

Also, which religions like Islam are you referring to?
Reply 52
I'm not gonna look at this thread for today or tomorrow, head hurts AF from thinking too much.

Added a good article link originally RTd by Riz Ahmed on OP, have a look.

Will reply to posts in coming days. Thanks for being cool
Original post by Kyou
I don't believe there should be a reformation at all. I feel the religion is perfect as it is.


You seem very confident in your approach, using terms like "believe" and "feel".

Why do you feel your religion is perfect?
Reply 54
Can someone get H Anwar to read OP, idk how to link her lol
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by mil88
Interesting to note your use of terminology when something goes against religion.



Can you elaborate why Islam is the impossible to reform?

Also, which religions like Islam are you referring to?


I'm merely stating a fact. For some reason people think the world revolves around the west and forget that the current trends show an increase in religiosity in the near future, not a decrease.

By religions like Islam, I meant religions who believe their holy book to be the word of God. Islam isn't like Christianity, where their holy book has been altered numerous times. You can't fundamentally change a religion where their whole basis revolves around the infallibility of their holy book.
Original post by mil88
You seem very confident in your approach, using terms like "believe" and "feel".

Why do you feel your religion is perfect?


Why would I follow a religion if I didn't think it was perfect and from God?
Original post by Quava
In Islam, modesty is required for both men and women to let you know, it's the bloody cultures that make it okay for a man to do one thing but for a woman to have to do another.


I'djust like to make a comment to that, tell me if i am wrong please, i cannot remember fully. Modesty is different for a man and a woman according to islam. A man needs to be covered from naval downwards, and woman is from head downards? is that correct? why is it different for a man and woman, if we are meant tobe equal?
thanks.
Original post by Ua3142
Can someone get H Anwar to read OP, idk how to link him lol


HAnwar is a female.
Original post by Kyou
I'm merely stating a fact. For some reason people think the world revolves around the west and forget that the current trends show an increase in religiosity in the near future, not a decrease.


You missed what I was referring to.
Never mind.

Wait - are you saying religions will become more popular in areas with significantly higher birth rates and (unfortunately) lower levels of literacy and education? Gosh, that is a miracle!

Original post by Kyou

By religions like Islam, I meant religions who believe their holy book to be the word of God. Islam isn't like Christianity, where their holy book has been altered numerous times. You can't fundamentally change a religion where their whole basis revolves around the infallibility of their holy book.


Is there any religion in particular?

The keyword is "believe" which sums it up. Beliefs can be absurd quite frankly.

But we're not discussing the Quran's infallibility, merely the interpretation.

For instance, is the Quran a literal or metaphorical text?

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