Year In the Industry?
Scroll to see replies
Original post by Helloworld_95
I'm pretty sure it has to be postgraduate experience but I'm struggling to find any information about the employment side of chartership eligibility past the competency requirements let alone anything that specific. However companies generally have a set out framework for becoming chartered and they would have to adjust that for YINI grads so even if it could count towards it, it might not in practice as you would be following the framework.
Placements can count towards chartership - there is no requirement for the experience to be gained post graduation, or via following a company framework.
Original post by Helloworld_95
I'm pretty sure it has to be postgraduate experience but I'm struggling to find any information about the employment side of chartership eligibility past the competency requirements let alone anything that specific. However companies generally have a set out framework for becoming chartered and they would have to adjust that for YINI grads so even if it could count towards it, it might not in practice as you would be following the framework.
According to this from Imperial an internship/placement/YINI counts.
http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/pls/portallive/docs/1/41974.PDF
BTW it also says: "A survey, carried out a few years ago at Imperial College, showed that mechanical engineering graduates, who had taken a year of industrial training, consistently achieved a higher classification of honours degree than those who had not."
So that's another plus point for YINI.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Smack
or via following a company framework.
My point on that was more that it would be quite complicated to mix the gain of competencies from YINI and the framework e.g. it may take a while and a lot of extra work to figure out how to give yourself the advantage, and there's likely going to be sufficient overlap between the YINI and earlier years of the framework that you wouldn't gain a significant time advantage as you wouldn't be covering some of the competencies until later anyway.
Original post by Doonesbury
According to this from Imperial an internship/placement/YINI counts.
http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/pls/portallive/docs/1/41974.PDF
BTW it also says: "A survey, carried out a few years ago at Imperial College, showed that mechanical engineering graduates, who had taken a year of industrial training, consistently achieved a higher classification of honours degree than those who had not."
So that's another plus point for YINI.
http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/pls/portallive/docs/1/41974.PDF
BTW it also says: "A survey, carried out a few years ago at Imperial College, showed that mechanical engineering graduates, who had taken a year of industrial training, consistently achieved a higher classification of honours degree than those who had not."
So that's another plus point for YINI.
I think the higher classification point is difficult as this will vary massively between unis plus the assessment criteria and weighting for YINI students is often rather opaque. It would be fairly easy for Imperial to apply less stringent assessment criteria combined with high weighting in order to boost the stats. Additionally they may be getting hired because of their higher class degree or the cohort may be selected to have higher grades, e.g. my uni doesn't let you go on a placement year unless you get 60% in the previous year (with a little bit of leeway). So it's not so cut and dry.
Original post by Helloworld_95
It would be fairly easy for Imperial to apply less stringent assessment criteria combined with high weighting in order to boost the stats.
Why on earth would they want to do that?
Original post by Doonesbury
Why on earth would they want to do that?
Makes their students look even better and encourages people to go on YINIs (thus netting them what's essentially a free £2k for the tuition fees during that year and allowing them to say they get more people into YINIs). It could also easily be unintentional as it would be difficult for the moderation to be as stringent as for modules taught at the university.
Original post by Helloworld_95
Makes their students look even better and encourages people to go on YINIs (thus netting them what's essentially a free £2k for the tuition fees during that year and allowing them to say they get more people into YINIs). It could also easily be unintentional as it would be difficult for the moderation to be as stringent as for modules taught at the university.
Honestly dude you've been reading too many conspiracy theories. And I doubt they make much from the £2k anyway.
Original post by Doonesbury
Honestly dude you've been reading too many conspiracy theories. And I doubt they make much from the £2k anyway.
Haha fair enough, but if they can, why wouldn't they? At the kind of ranks Imperial works at and the type of people that attracts, those little things can make the difference.
Original post by Helloworld_95
Haha fair enough, but if they can, why wouldn't they? At the kind of ranks Imperial works at and the type of people that attracts, those little things can make the difference.
I don't know what % of Imperial students take the YINI, but I think a significant number don't. It doesn't matter to Imperial one way or the other.
I seem to recall a similar report by Loughborough too, but then you would say that's because they pretty much invented the idea of a sandwich year
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Helloworld_95
I'm pretty sure it has to be postgraduate experience but I'm struggling to find any information about the employment side of chartership eligibility past the competency requirements let alone anything that specific. However companies generally have a set out framework for becoming chartered and they would have to adjust that for YINI grads so even if it could count towards it, it might not in practice as you would be following the framework.
Undergraduate work experience counts towards chartership whether it's a year or a summer placement (counts as a quarter). It's not company dependent, it's set up by the Engineering Council under their UK standard for professional engineering competence (UKSPEC). You're rated 1 to 4 on your end of your year assessment and it's assumed that you'll be working around the 1 mark by the end of your first year (same will be expected of graduates). A programme which offers a rotation throughout different engineering functions does well to nicely round up all the key competencies for the first year. It's expected that you would be at level 3/2 in your final year as this involves guiding projects, managing budgets etc, first year is mainly about being involved and aware of the UKSPEC. Even if a placement scheme doesn't offer mentorship from IMechE members i'm pretty sure you can claim back up to 18 months of previous engineering work experience as long as you write a report detailing what you did. Whether people are aiming for EngTech, IEng or CEng it's good to get in this mindsight and understand that your job is more far reaching than logging onto your computer everyday. Being self aware of continued professional development, engineering ethics, teamwork, interpersonal skills and application of engineering knowledge is a good insight to have during an undergraduate degree which will most certainly help when going on to 3rd and 4th year.
(edited 6 years ago)
Ok, let me revise my point from YINI doesn't give an advantage to YINI doesn't give a significant enough advantage to make it cut and dry.
So placement experience can count towards chartership, that's all good but it's rarely going to provide the same time value as the graduate program and the large majority of people don't achieve chartership in the minimum time, it often takes an extra few years and it's not uncommon to see people becoming chartered after ~10 years of experience, at which point 1 year is starting to become negligible.
Most universities will also expose their students to a long term pseudo-industrial project environment which provides a solid introduction to the kind of skill/knowledge advantages for YINI being brought up, you won't be as fluent but you'll have a decent idea.
You guys are providing good arguments for the YINI but none of us have the evidence to backup whether it provides a tangible, statistical advantage when it comes to employment later down the line. It's important to remember that you can spend years of your life on something only for it to get you nowhere or provide nothing, YINIs aren't an exception to that. I can't reasonably say a YINI is something you absolutely should try to do given the non-speculative evidence present.
So placement experience can count towards chartership, that's all good but it's rarely going to provide the same time value as the graduate program and the large majority of people don't achieve chartership in the minimum time, it often takes an extra few years and it's not uncommon to see people becoming chartered after ~10 years of experience, at which point 1 year is starting to become negligible.
Most universities will also expose their students to a long term pseudo-industrial project environment which provides a solid introduction to the kind of skill/knowledge advantages for YINI being brought up, you won't be as fluent but you'll have a decent idea.
You guys are providing good arguments for the YINI but none of us have the evidence to backup whether it provides a tangible, statistical advantage when it comes to employment later down the line. It's important to remember that you can spend years of your life on something only for it to get you nowhere or provide nothing, YINIs aren't an exception to that. I can't reasonably say a YINI is something you absolutely should try to do given the non-speculative evidence present.
Original post by Helloworld_95
You guys are providing good arguments for the YINI but none of us have the evidence to backup whether it provides a tangible, statistical advantage when it comes to employment later down the line. It's important to remember that you can spend years of your life on something only for it to get you nowhere or provide nothing, YINIs aren't an exception to that. I can't reasonably say a YINI is something you absolutely should try to do given the non-speculative evidence present.
Except Imperial did say they saw higher degree classes as a result of a placement year.
Also this (IBL is a year long placement):
"Results from the study indicated that students who spent time on work integrated learning or IBL in their penultimate year of their engineering course obtained better grades than those who did not undertake such a placement."
http://www.apjce.org/files/APJCE_17_1_31_43.pdf
I don't quite understand why you're so against a year in industry?
I don't fully believe this. I've recently finished my undergrad and in no way did my university studies make me suitable for work. I made myself suitable for work by ensuring i had a good CV due to extracirculars and work experience. University gives you the foundations of engineering knowledge from which you build on and tailor to your career path. In my role i only really use fluid dynamics and manufacturing knowledge whereas my friend uses just structures and materials knowledge. IMechE likes to think they incorporate a good industrial project environment but in reality they don't. Group design projects are not to the same standard as project work in the workplace and never will be because at the end of the day you can just not do any work. Any type of work experience whether it's volunteering, retail or engineering whilst at uni is a benefit as you become aware of working environment and the little things such as actually being on time and being able to approach people in the workplace whether phone, email or face to face.
Trust me, it 100% does provide the same value as a graduate role. Doing an internship doesn't mean being a dogsbody or not doing any work, you're expected to work at the same level as every other entry engineer, companies will give you a lot of responsibility and accountability. They're paying 17k+ a year so they want some decent payback from this. Yes, a lot of people don't go for chartership straight after 4 years but that's entirely up to the individual. A lot of people who i work with gained their CEng status because they've got 10+ years of experience so they're automatically eligible. Full CEng status is attainable 3 years after graduating from a masters degree if you have a year in industry. All you require is to be rated at level 3 in 3 of your core competencies and level 2 in the 2 others, to become a fellow of IMechE you need 4's across the board. You mention there's no statistical evidence of year in industry students earning more and it's probably a hard metric to gauge. However, company's such as Atkins reward people for becoming accredited with their respective institution to the tune of a £2.5k bonus. If you become chartered in your job role i think the first you would do is negotiate a pay raise, no? And if you do this within 3 years of graduating then yes you probably will be earning more than people of the same year group.
There's no rush for chartership as it's a big responsibility to take on, however the option is there and a placement year can help you on your way to this.
The OP is embarking on entry level to undergrad and should have all their options open. A placement isn't a money grabbing scheme, it gives you experience, a wage, a network of contacts, a possibility of an industry based final year project and an insight into future career prospects.
Most universities will also expose their students to a long term pseudo-industrial project environment which provides a solid introduction to the kind of skill/knowledge advantages for YINI being brought up, you won't be as fluent but you'll have a decent idea.
I don't fully believe this. I've recently finished my undergrad and in no way did my university studies make me suitable for work. I made myself suitable for work by ensuring i had a good CV due to extracirculars and work experience. University gives you the foundations of engineering knowledge from which you build on and tailor to your career path. In my role i only really use fluid dynamics and manufacturing knowledge whereas my friend uses just structures and materials knowledge. IMechE likes to think they incorporate a good industrial project environment but in reality they don't. Group design projects are not to the same standard as project work in the workplace and never will be because at the end of the day you can just not do any work. Any type of work experience whether it's volunteering, retail or engineering whilst at uni is a benefit as you become aware of working environment and the little things such as actually being on time and being able to approach people in the workplace whether phone, email or face to face.
So placement experience can count towards chartership, that's all good but it's rarely going to provide the same time value as the graduate program and the large majority of people don't achieve chartership in the minimum time, it often takes an extra few years and it's not uncommon to see people becoming chartered after ~10 years of experience, at which point 1 year is starting to become negligible.
Trust me, it 100% does provide the same value as a graduate role. Doing an internship doesn't mean being a dogsbody or not doing any work, you're expected to work at the same level as every other entry engineer, companies will give you a lot of responsibility and accountability. They're paying 17k+ a year so they want some decent payback from this. Yes, a lot of people don't go for chartership straight after 4 years but that's entirely up to the individual. A lot of people who i work with gained their CEng status because they've got 10+ years of experience so they're automatically eligible. Full CEng status is attainable 3 years after graduating from a masters degree if you have a year in industry. All you require is to be rated at level 3 in 3 of your core competencies and level 2 in the 2 others, to become a fellow of IMechE you need 4's across the board. You mention there's no statistical evidence of year in industry students earning more and it's probably a hard metric to gauge. However, company's such as Atkins reward people for becoming accredited with their respective institution to the tune of a £2.5k bonus. If you become chartered in your job role i think the first you would do is negotiate a pay raise, no? And if you do this within 3 years of graduating then yes you probably will be earning more than people of the same year group.
There's no rush for chartership as it's a big responsibility to take on, however the option is there and a placement year can help you on your way to this.
The OP is embarking on entry level to undergrad and should have all their options open. A placement isn't a money grabbing scheme, it gives you experience, a wage, a network of contacts, a possibility of an industry based final year project and an insight into future career prospects.
Original post by Helloworld_95
My point on that was more that it would be quite complicated to mix the gain of competencies from YINI and the framework e.g. it may take a while and a lot of extra work to figure out how to give yourself the advantage, and there's likely going to be sufficient overlap between the YINI and earlier years of the framework that you wouldn't gain a significant time advantage as you wouldn't be covering some of the competencies until later anyway.
I can't see this being a problem... if you're working at a certain level, and meeting the required competencies, that's what matters.
Quick Reply
Related discussions
- Is a year in industry actually worth it? should i just do a year abroad for york uni?
- How important is a year in industry for Maths?
- CS insight day advice
- Is doing an Industrial Placement worth it?
- Struggling to get a job with my Meteorology degree!
- Studying the Creative and Cultural Industries at Kingston University.
- Industrial economics UoN vs economics UEA
- Do I have a shot at Cambridge Engineering
- What Uni to pick for Mech Eng
- Birmingham or UCL for chemical engineering
- University of Manchester or Sheffield (Computer Science)?
- Placement year in Aerospace engineering
- Take a gap year for engineering at Cambridge
- Computer Game Degrees - The next big scandal
- Advice on career pathways? Psychology work placement/Law GDL
- KCL or Manchester for CS
- Course confusion
- Big 4 Audit vs Finance Graduate Scheme at a bank
- Film Production at University
- Indecisive with my university choices for BEng Mechanical Engineering
