YouGov poll: Brits would choose Communism over Facism (42% vs 10%)

Original post by PMC01234

EU is far from being fascist I agree but I must say that the EU is more a technocracy than a democracy... Have you ever voted for EU parliament? Other example: in 2005 the majority of people voted against an EU constitution (even the French who is mainly pro-EU!) and in 2007 the EU implemented it by force with the Lisbon treaty so... not so democratic. Sad because the EU is (or was?) a fantastic utopia project.

A- You can vote for the EU parliament
B- the fault lies with the national government and not the EU for that happening. If the people wanted to leave then they can do if they have the balls, just like the UK is doing.

Reply 22

username3046368

12

I would challenge the premise of the question. Because if we're talking about communism in theory then everyone would want that, a harmonised, perfectly unified world. However, in practice communism and facism are akin to each other. So either it should be 100% communism or the questions pointless in reality.

Reply 23

Original post by Mathemagicien

If your theory is that the communist idealistic movement is easily hijacked by an authoritarian strongman who directs the state to an isolated (and therefore nationalistic) socialistic state that bears a lot of resemblance to a fascist state, then that is something I hear a lot from some people, but probably far less of a risk these days when the left has rearranged itself as anti-nationalist and anti-racialist to a much greater extent than before.

kinda but it's more that I think communism doesn't work and that it requires coercion to keep the state alive and the appearance of works. Think it was C Hitchens who remarked that in a totalitarian system the only that works well is the secret police.

Failed 'communist' states don't have a problem with immigration as it gives the impression that people are travelling to their wonderful paradise (i.e. North Korea)

Not quite. They'll always need an enemy which. An lend itself to racism and bigotry just not the tribal kind. I.e. Anti white racism and the racism of low expectations. Plus the anti Semitic which plagues. It's communism and fascism is alive and well today in the tolerant Labour Party

Reply 24

ZombieTheWolf

22

Original post by Burridge

Loaded? It certainly wasn't loaded in favour of one of the options (if that's what you're implying, correct me if I'm wrong).

As is always the case with this discussion debate, I'd like to make the point that communism in the true sense has never been achieved. Russia post-1917 was grossly totalitarian, authoritarian and state-capitalist (a top-down model). By some definitions, it was fascist.

People have a romantic view of communism because it is fundamentally a romantic theory. It's positive in outlook and regards equality & fraternity as key values. Fascism however is pessimistic and restrictive; rather than being anthropocentric it's state/nation (or usually race) centric. It's no surprise that people pick communism over fascism.

Too bad its never worked. :/

Reply 25

Original post by Davij038

A- You can vote for the EU parliament
B- the fault lies with the national government and not the EU for that happening. If the people wanted to leave then they can do if they have the balls, just like the UK is doing.

A. Yes you can technically vote for EU parliament but no one does. Those at the head the EU only represent a very small fraction of all EU citizens.

B. The fault does not lie with the national government but with the EU political structure. It is way too complex as it is still shared between an EU of strong nations and a federalist EU. Check on wiki a diagram of the EU political organs you'll laugh at its complexity.

Reply 26

ChaoticButterfly

20

Lol wtf, the lib dem voters were the biggest commies of all. No wonder their vote base haemorrhaged after they got into bed with the Tories.

Reply 27

milibands

11

This is the quality content I registered for.

Reply 28

Iridocyclitis

10

The majority of Brits will interpret that poll as: would you rather have lived in Communist Russia or Nazi Germany.

Reply 29

Original post by PMC01234

A. Yes you can technically vote for EU parliament but no one does. Those at the head the EU only represent a very small fraction of all EU citizens.

B. The fault does not lie with the national government but with the EU political structure. It is way too complex as it is still shared between an EU of strong nations and a federalist EU. Check on wiki a diagram of the EU political organs you'll laugh at its complexity.

A- in my opinion that's a stupid argument. So long as people have the right to vote freely and fairly then it's democratic even if only 1% bothers to do so.

B- So what? That's what the national governments voted for- the same as other complex treaties and negotiations. Very few people I speak to, even quite educated ones have a clear understanding of our political system in the UK.

Reply 30

The hell is wrong with the people who prefer fascism to communism and voted labour in 2017?

Reply 31

Original post by Davij038

A- in my opinion that's a stupid argument. So long as people have the right to vote freely and fairly then it's democratic even if only 1% bothers to do so.

B- So what? That's what the national governments voted for- the same as other complex treaties and negotiations. Very few people I speak to, even quite educated ones have a clear understanding of our political system in the UK.

A - It's not because the system is democratic that it means it allows democracy. Sorry but Hitler was elected democratically. That doesn't make him a legitimate chancellor.

B - The political system in the UK is quite simple compared to the EU's. It's two chambers (House of Lords and House of Commons) with the latter voting laws tombe confirmed by the former and that's it hahaha.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_European_Union.

Reply 32

Original post by PMC01234

A - It's not because the system is democratic that it means it allows democracy. Sorry but Hitler was elected democratically. That doesn't make him a legitimate chancellor.

B - The political system in the UK is quite simple compared to the EU's. It's two chambers (House of Lords and House of Commons) with the latter voting laws tombe confirmed by the former and that's it hahaha.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_European_Union.

A: yes it does, why wouldn't it? See here: http://diebesteallerzeiten.de/blog/2009/02/19/was-hitler-democratically-elected/

B: I understand UK politics fine. And EU politics. Most people don't- e.g. What's a representative form of government, how first past the post works and what the duty of the queen is and how the devolved areas work etc.

Reply 33

Original post by Davij038

A: yes it does, why wouldn't it? See here: http://diebesteallerzeiten.de/blog/2009/02/19/was-hitler-democratically-elected/

B: I understand UK politics fine. And EU politics. Most people don't- e.g. What's a representative form of government, how first past the post works and what the duty of the queen is and how the devolved areas work etc.

Yes

but that proves democracy is the lesser evil of all the political beliefs, not "the best".
And democracy becomes very very dangerous when less than 50% of the total electorate vote. At the 2014 the elections turnout of the EU parliament was slightly over 40%, ridiculous... EVEN Juncker, president of the Commission, complained the absenteeism at the Parliament.

Reply 34

Original post by PMC01234

Yes

but that proves democracy is the lesser evil of all the political beliefs, not "the best".
And democracy becomes very very dangerous when less than 50% of the total electorate vote. At the 2014 the elections turnout of the EU parliament was slightly over 40%, ridiculous... EVEN Juncker, president of the Commission, complained the absenteeism at the Parliament.

I never made that argument. My arguments are:

1: it's still democracy even if people can't be bothered to vote

2: it's stil democracy even if people vote for a dictator.

Reply 35