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How can you be an atheist?

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Original post by Frizzaayy
See, I think you're partly right. It's true God can't be disprove but at the same time by science He can't be concretely proven because of all the proof against. But science is not 99.99999999% because the ordered and controlled way we have been studying the world conflicts the chaotic way it functions - hence theories of stochasticity and quantum science which often doesn't reach textbooks. Thus, it doesn't make sense to rule out any option.

So you’re not ruling out santa, fairies, unicorns, hoccuspuccuism or the seven headed snakemonster that COULD benliving under your bed and be the creator of the universe?

Good. You spend your time on the infinite number of alternative explanations, none of which have any evidence backing them, while I spend my time basing my life on logic, reason and evidence, beacuse logic, reason and evidence (=science) is the method that has so far explained everything I’venever encountered.

You go drop a stone from the top of your roof. Perform it one trillion times. If, on even one of those one trillion times the stone falls on any other speed and acceleration than it should according to the laws of science, do tell me. You’re performing the important task of considering the possibility that science might be wrong and that the stone could, according instead to the laws of hoccuspoccuism(that’s the 2nd law of hoccuspoccuism) fly in the air and turn into a unicorn that’s going to send the whole world into nirvana.
Reply 41
Original post by Thomazo
So you’re not ruling out santa, fairies, unicorns, hoccuspuccuism or the seven headed snakemonster that COULD benliving under your bed and be the creator of the universe?

Good. You spend your time on the infinite number of alternative explanations, none of which have any evidence backing them, while I spend my time basing my life on logic, reason and evidence, beacuse logic, reason and evidence (=science) is the method that has so far explained everything I’venever encountered.

You go drop a stone from the top of your roof. Perform it one trillion times. If, on even one of those one trillion times the stone falls on any other speed and acceleration than it should according to the laws of science, do tell me. You’re performing the important task of considering the possibility that science might be wrong and that the stone could, according instead to the laws of hoccuspoccuism(that’s the 2nd law of hoccuspoccuism) fly in the air and turn into a unicorn that’s going to send the whole world into nirvana.


No - if I put my faith in science I wouldn't rule anything out - doesn't mean I have to follow anything, just open to research. But as I've said already I'm Christian :smile:
Reply 42
Original post by goggleyed
most people have lost da wae thats why


I find that a lot of people never had a way to start with
Reply 43
Original post by Yakib
You clearly don't properly know what an agnostic is, an agnostic isn't a solitary term to describe what you believe in, it's a term that's paired with either theism or atheism. For example, there are agnostic atheists and gnostic atheists, similarly there are agnostic theists and gnostic theists. And to answer your question, we lack the evidence to believe in a specific God. Simple as that.


Linguistics aren't my strong suit I suppose. I understand that you don't believe but are you open minded to the idea of a higher power?

Original post by amelia.jonathon
The problem of evil is a real problem for me. I used to be a Christian but now I’m really not so sure due to the incohérences and constant contradictions. I respect your choice to be a Christian and have no problem with people believing in a God but it just doesn’t sit comfortably with me anymore


I was there at some point but the "contradictions" found in the Bible are due to context. Verses taken out of context obviously lose its meaning. It's like if I said "It's okay to kill them from time to time" and people starting preaching against me for being a murderer when I was actually talking about swatting flies! A lot of old testament rules were amended in the new testament and are ruled out by Christ dying on the cross so the bible often gets taken out of context and misunderstood. Learning this and studying the Bible myself brought me back to faith :smile: and thank you for your respect. I respect all your opinions and thank you all for opening my mind.
Reply 44
You're absolutely right.
Atheism is as illogical as Religion.
Reply 45
So few people seem to know what agnosticism is.

"Humans cannot know the existence of anything beyond the phenomena of their experience."

Cited from Encyclopaedia Britannica

Technically agnosticism doesn't exist as a catagory like Atheism and Theism.
Reply 46
Original post by Lily048
People tend to choose science because there has been more instances where religion has brought about dissatisfaction and intolerance than any other ‘belief’ system.
The existence of Holy Wars and the idea that religions such as Islam and Christianity have actively informed through spiritual reading the ideologies of men overpowering women, women being a product of ownership, rape/sexual coercion, children as gifts/products, intolerance of homosexuals (and even the stoning or torturing of them even though they claim peace), etc etc.
Science, although often balancing between scientific discovery and discovery of potential harm, does arguably not endorse such ideologies which have been the root causes of many crimes, criminal tendencies and incidences of warfare in the past.
For example, as much as people say those who partake in Islamic terrorism are not true believers of Islam, their fundamentals all stem from Sharia Law and the testimonies within the Qu’ran, which is a holy book central to the Islamic faith. So in that same sentence it could be argued that both their law and book of spiritual faith have root causes that DO lead to people acting on their ‘behalf’, whether it is somewhat distorted or not.
It has never originated from science however.


Men overpowering women is not the intention of God. Men leading is. What we believe is that whilst we all have our own strengths (sometimes women can have strengths in leading as show in the bible so it's not black and white) when God created humans, he split us into man and women and gave us roles in the church and the household. However, we have individuality - it's just that biologically we have certain strengths. Again a lot of the stuff written in context based and just because someone who we look up to e.g. Kind David is written to be good doesn't mean we condone their bad behaviours. We believe homosexuality is a sin but those who hate on homosexuals are hypocrites as we're all sinners and we're not supposed to hate each other... anyways, Christian teachings are good but can be dangerous when taken out of context. Just like science e.g. Holocaust roots were Eugenics. Anyways, I can see how people can be turned away from theism. Just not the idea that there absolutely no higher power
Agnosticism is not the same as atheism -- they're distinct positions regardless of what somebody on YouTube says. Academic theology and philosophy support the notion as well
Reply 48
Original post by Bio 7
So few people seem to know what agnosticism is.

"Humans cannot know the existence of anything beyond the phenomena of their experience."

Cited from Encyclopaedia Britannica

Technically agnosticism doesn't exist as a category like Atheism and Theism.


I did look around but dictionaries, Wikipedia, the encyclopediae and my philosophy teacher all had differing definitions and I just took it to be as a question mark between the know categories. But I suppose if there is a definition problem it kinda throws off my question in the first place :'3
Original post by Frizzaayy
Linguistics - that's a nice answer and makes sense actually. However, I do believe that there's less harm at the end to keep an open mind than to completely close your eyes as scientists should :smile:


scientists are the ones who must keep their eyes open at all times. They are the ones trying to find out new things about the universe and how it works; science is driven by curiosity and an open mind. That's how discoveries are made... closed eyes are completely detrimental to science !!
Reply 51
Original post by Uspsni
The reasons I think people should have a genuine reason to be religious: having a symbolic connection to it (e.g. family and the religion are closely intertwined), using it to help give them a moral construct to feel more secure with their decisions on a day to day basis, using it as a recreational activity (e.g. going to church to socialise and unite a community), getting a sense of connection to another being (imaginary or not) while simultaneously reflecting upon oneself's day to day stresses and hopes etc...

The reasons NOT to be religious in the 21st century: to understand the universe and its workings. That was the main appeal of many religions in history, now that's not the case and in my humble opinion if you believe god created the Earth in a few days because the bible says then something isn't right. I'm not stereotyping, but that type of Christian is abundant - and in 1st world nations with good access to an education - I'd have some serious questions to ask from these individuals (except the ones sadly not fortunate enough to receive an education ofc).

When I read this I get the feeling people confuse their reasons for being religious and what the purpose of it is for in a modern day society. If you believe in a god, believe in him because it gives you hope for your life and future or take symbolic lessons from the stories they tell, not because you actually believe Noah built an arc that was filled with 2 of every species from across the world.

We need to stop confusing science (definite), scientific THEORY (not yet concrete) and the teachings of religious texts and their function..


I don't think there's anything wrong with believing God created the world. So long as you keep up with education. Wholeheartedly trusting in one's faith and living in society don't have to juxtapose.
Original post by Frizzaayy
This isn't to start fights, I generally want to know. I understand being agnostic but it doesn't make sense to me that anyone can be just plain atheist.

Until science proves everything concretely, it doesn't really prove anything. I'm not denouncing science - I love it! I'm a biochem a level student and I wanna study medicine.

But I don't think it has all the answers - personally, I think the bible has all the answers which get proved through science.

Anyways, I could go on forever but I actually wanna know opinions!


I could ask how can people be religious etc. Personally, for me, it doesn't make sense. I don't believe that there's this invisible thing in the sky / wherever that's watching over every single human / animal all the time and controlling what we do / what happens to us. I find it strange that people pray before eating, thanking this thing for their food. In my mind, no. You earned the money through working and then went and bought the ingredients, which were provided by supermarkets and farmers and factories. I find it strange that instead of doing something to help in a disaster e.g. hurricane, people pray. What good is talking to yourself in your home going to do?

I know I'm going to get religious people defending their religion, but please don't bother. You can tell me all the reasons you want for doing those things, but it won't make even a tiny bit of difference to my views. I'm just answering the op.
Original post by Frizzaayy
Okay. But see I like that. That's a nice stance to be - open to the idea of a higher power and not completely closed off. I'm not closed to science as a Christian as I believe that science is a gift of God. I do think that science can give proof to Christianity just as much as it disproves it but science isn't the almighty to me. Still I like your stance on things.


Thanks, its actually really interesting to see the relationship between science and Christianity. The Catholic Church teaches that science and the Christian faith are complementary and some even interpret trans-humanism as the fulfilment of God's image. BTW thanks for this thread i love this kind of stuff!
tl;dr: It's not important to their life, so they haven't given it much consideration. (Someone can argue) atheism and agnosticism aren't exclusive, so your question is based on a faulty premise, so it is redundant. The lack of evidence for the existence of God might be counted as evidence for the non-existence of God. And people might be often pigeonholed into an answer by the way someone could frame the question.

I suppose you can just be an agnostic about anything. It just wouldn't make much of a semantic difference that affects your life a lot.

I consider myself an agnostic atheist; in that (agnostic) it's not possible whether to know whether a God exists or not. (It's also possible to be an agnostic theist, so atheism and agnosticism might not be mutually exclusive.)

Also, even if I was to give 50/50 equal consideration to the existence and the non-existence of a God before looking at the evidence, I can endlessly search for evidence and not come up with any (nothing that I consider evidence.) Someone might say you might not have just found the evidence yet, but if I see no visible signs [to me] in the world; if I cannot deduce anything, then I might say the lack of evidence is actually evidence of the absense of a God, so I'm now (slightly) in favour of the non-existence of God (like 40/60), so if I had to come to a conclusion (which people don't have to, but perhaps often feel the need to/it's nice to), I'd say God doesn't exist.

Perhaps more people will be of an agnostic viewpoint if the question wasn't often presented as "do you believe in God?"; which can pigeonhole you into "yes" or "no" instead of being given an open-ended question giving someone a reason to think about it more.

(On a side note it's an entirely different ball game then if someone believes whether they should let it affect their lives, but people often bring that up in these debates anyway.)
(edited 6 years ago)
Reply 55
Original post by Frizzaayy
A lot of the things written in the bible were contextual - for example, wearing different fabrics had to do with the way they used to dress and ties with paganism. And womanly submission does not equate to sexism as we're all equally precious in God's eyes. However, even if you didn't believe in Christianity, surely just ruling God out is a bit much?


Personally, I believe in a god, I just think that They would hate the stuff written in the bible, and the acts people perform in defence of the bible. Its a horrible hateful book, regardless of context, women aren't property, slavery is horrific, women shouldn't be sold and traded, I could go on and on about dumb stuff written in the bible, these are just off the top of my head.

I also don't like the whole Christian idea of humans being inherently sinful and need to beg for forgiveness. God is a benevolent being to me, I don't understand why people think They would hate us for who we are and "sins of the flesh" etc etc

you say "I think the bible has all the answers which get proved through science. " can you give any examples of "answers" given by the bible? other than like, the meaning of life
Reply 56
Original post by Uspsni
I'm also alarmed by that statement. I can confirm NOT ALL CHRISTIANS believe 'homosexuality is a sin'.


True, but you make it out as though science condones such a thing?!?! Science is science, it doesn't have a moral stantpoint and therefore people use religious texts to get one. Sorry but you have it all so confused by the looks of it.


1 Tim 1:3-15 is just one of many scriptures which clearly states that homosexuality is a sin along with theft, fornication etc. But just like christians don't go around throwing rocks at their non-christian friends who have sex outside of marriage and treat them with respect just like anybody else, they shouldn't treat people who have same sex relationships like that either. However Christianity states obviously that homosexuality is a sin and anything saying otherwise is false doctrine.

But you do have a point with science not having a moral standpoint which I guess may be attractive to atheists. But morals without religion aren't top notch either. Religious extremists don't come close to figures of crimes with no religious background to them.
Reply 57
Original post by gomgossa
scientists are the ones who must keep their eyes open at all times. They are the ones trying to find out new things about the universe and how it works; science is driven by curiosity and an open mind. That's how discoveries are made... closed eyes are completely detrimental to science !!


Yep, which is what I love about science. Even though I am Christian, although we are taught in Christianity to stay aware, up to date and educated anyways.
Original post by TheBirder


woah this is really cool, its interesting how "god" has been given a lower case. would definitely pin Richard Dawkins in the Gnostic Atheist category.
Reply 59
Original post by blink.182
BTW thanks for this thread i love this kind of stuff!


That's okay :smile: me too. I strive to be an understanding person and even if I don't necessarily agree, I want to be able to understand at least where people are coming from.

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