Unemployed and don't know why
Original post by Shawn888
I have a first class bachelor's degree in Computer Engineering and a First class master's degree in Cybersecurity , both from the top 200 universities in the world. I have high scores in A-levels as well (all A*s). I have a total of 10 months IT experience and a couple of entry-level cybersecurity certifications. However I have been unnemployed for 6 months now since graduation. I don't understand what I'm doing wrong. My CV has been checked multiple times and I always get the comment that "I'm great " by the interviewer however they simply give the position to someone else. Is there anybody else out there in the same position or is it just me 
?
?Hey, congratulations - they are brilliant results in tough courses.
How many interviews have you had? What is your ratio of applications to interviews?
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Original post by Shawn888
I have a first class bachelor's degree in Computer Engineering and a First class master's degree in Cybersecurity , both from the top 200 universities in the world. I have high scores in A-levels as well (all A*s). I have a total of 10 months IT experience and a couple of entry-level cybersecurity certifications. However I have been unnemployed for 6 months now since graduation. I don't understand what I'm doing wrong. My CV has been checked multiple times and I always get the comment that "I'm great " by the interviewer however they simply give the position to someone else. Is there anybody else out there in the same position or is it just me ?
?Academics are covered so we can tick that off, what roles have you been applying to?
I feel like when the interviewer is saying you're great that there's a but... I think it's a case of just applying for as many roles as possible but I'd defiantly ask for more feedback especially if they are saying you're "great" but not giving you the job.
Original post by Shawn888
I have a first class bachelor's degree in Computer Engineering and a First class master's degree in Cybersecurity , both from the top 200 universities in the world. I have high scores in A-levels as well (all A*s). I have a total of 10 months IT experience and a couple of entry-level cybersecurity certifications. However I have been unnemployed for 6 months now since graduation. I don't understand what I'm doing wrong. My CV has been checked multiple times and I always get the comment that "I'm great " by the interviewer however they simply give the position to someone else. Is there anybody else out there in the same position or is it just me ?
?Your interviewing skills need improvement.. That's the crux.
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Original post by Anagogic
Academics are covered so we can tick that off, what roles have you been applying to?
I feel like when the interviewer is saying you're great that there's a but... I think it's a case of just applying for as many roles as possible but I'd defiantly ask for more feedback especially if they are saying you're "great" but not giving you the job.
I feel like when the interviewer is saying you're great that there's a but... I think it's a case of just applying for as many roles as possible but I'd defiantly ask for more feedback especially if they are saying you're "great" but not giving you the job.
Mostly the position always goes to a candidate that knows the local language and unfortunately I'm a foreigner and I don't know the local language. I always make it to the final two candidates despite this but the position always goes to the local candidate . Can't move to another country either (due to personal reasons). I'm stuck
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Princepieman
I always make it to the final two candidates so my interviewing skills must be ok. Mostly the position always goes to a candidate that knows the local language and unfortunately I'm a foreigner and I don't know the local language. I always make it to the final two candidates despite this but the position always goes to the local candidate . Can't move to another country either (due to personal reasons). I'm stuck
Original post by Shawn888
I live in country where its OK to discriminate based on nationality and gender (there are no laws against this). Mostly the position always goes to a candidate that knows the local language and unfortunately I'm a foreigner and I don't know the local language. I always make it to the final two candidates despite this but the position always goes to the local candidate . Can't move to another country either (due to personal reasons). I'm stuck
Could you learn the local language?
What country?
(obviously ignore if you don't want to answer)
(obviously ignore if you don't want to answer)
Original post by Shawn888
I always make it to the final two candidates so my interviewing skills must be ok. Mostly the position always goes to a candidate that knows the local language and unfortunately I'm a foreigner and I don't know the local language. I always make it to the final two candidates despite this but the position always goes to the local candidate . Can't move to another country either (due to personal reasons). I'm stuck
Learn the local language or start applying for non-specialist roles.
Original post by ajj2000
Hey, congratulations - they are brilliant results in tough courses.
How many interviews have you had? What is your ratio of applications to interviews?
How many interviews have you had? What is your ratio of applications to interviews?
OMFG that is literally my life right now!!
I obtained a First Class Computing degree two years ago and on top of that got a certification too. I was working on a project for a couple of months but I lost that job 7 months ago due to its completion.
Since then I've applied to loads of places and attended a handful of interviews. No luck thus far, and all I seem to be getting is a load of false promises! Interviewers telling me "I am great" all the way down to "We will be offering it to you". Still unemployed and sick to the point where I will be doing a masters
It seems that young people have it hard in this country when it comes to IT jobs as most places seem to like outsourcing the jobs abroad
Original post by username3926998
I always make it to the final two candidates so my interviewing skills must be ok. Mostly the position always goes to a candidate that knows the local language and unfortunately I'm a foreigner and I don't know the local language. I always make it to the final two candidates despite this but the position always goes to the local candidate . Can't move to another country either (due to personal reasons). I'm stuck
This is the problem then - being able to communicate effectively is almost as important as having the technical skills. The bottom line is that employers will naturally see the potential problems with you being unable to work alongside co-workers, managers or with clients.
Whatever work you might end up doing as an IT professional, your ability to work with other people is often the difference between being able to do the job well, or being the person who consistently fails to understand the task properly, or fails to communicate important information about something they're working on. Communication is generally the reason why projects fail, so employers often prioritise good, strong communicators when they're recruiting.
Original post by username3926998
Mostly the position always goes to a candidate that knows the local language and unfortunately I'm a foreigner and I don't know the local language. I always make it to the final two candidates despite this but the position always goes to the local candidate . Can't move to another country either (due to personal reasons). I'm stuck
Look - if you get interviews and get the last last two despite being a) foreign and b) not speaking the language you are a brilliant candidate. Speaking the language is important in most jobs, and employers will be concerned that you will move elsewhere in a year regardless of what you tell them.
Keep doing what you are doing - the problem is in no way you given what you have said.
Original post by Princepieman
The guy is good in his field but he won't get a job because his knowledge of the HR game isn't good enough? This is ridiculous, if that happens this is HR department's failure, not his.
Original post by ajj2000
Look - if you get interviews and get the last last two despite being a) foreign and b) not speaking the language you are a brilliant candidate. Speaking the language is important in most jobs, and employers will be concerned that you will move elsewhere in a year regardless of what you tell them.
In Slavic countries, it is important in the IT sector to know the language, as long as the language is English and nobody cares that the Poles struggle to understand the common Indian-English accent.
Original post by PTMalewski
The guy is good in his field but he won't get a job because his knowledge of the HR game isn't good enough? This is ridiculous, if that happens this is HR department's failure, not his.
Sadly dealing with HR departments is a fact of life. The HR department don't fail (at least not in the same way as line managers who don't get decent staff). They remain employed and recite A level business studies type observations.
Original post by PTMalewski
In Slavic countries, it is important in the IT sector to know the language, as long as the language is English and nobody cares that the Poles struggle to understand the common Indian-English accent.
But he's come second on a few occasions - this is the most likely issue, especially since he only has 10 months experience so is hardly an international specialist.
Original post by ajj2000
They remain employed and recite A level business studies type observations.
Sometimes scientists fail to design their research properly. People who utilize data taken from them, certainly fail to understand that data even more often.
Original post by PTMalewski
The guy is good in his field but he won't get a job because his knowledge of the HR game isn't good enough? This is ridiculous, if that happens this is HR department's failure, not his.
If they're good in their field but not a good interviewer, then they should contract themselves out based on their previous work.. As a legit employee, you're going to need to be a bit more than just "good at your field" if you want a decent chance at a job. Working with other people on a day to day basis is paramount to getting anything done, and if the fit isn't right it'd just make matters worse.
Original post by Princepieman
If they're good in their field but not a good interviewer, then they should contract themselves out based on their previous work.. As a legit employee, you're going to need to be a bit more than just "good at your field" if you want a decent chance at a job. Working with other people on a day to day basis is paramount to getting anything done, and if the fit isn't right it'd just make matters worse.
I still don't see how the job interviewing skills have anything in common with communication skills. Acting is a very limited kind of communication.
Making a good impression for a couple of hours is different to day to day work. Many people make a good impression on HRs but get fired after a few weeks or months because they actually lack necessary skills or just don't fit the rest of the team or character of the work, not to mention that some employees well rooted in their company, should have failed to pass such interviews if those were supposed to check their ability of teamworking because their character is sometimes pathological and attitude towards other employees disgraceful.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by PTMalewski
I still don't see how the job interviewing skills have anything in common with communication skills. Acting is a very limited kind of communication.
Making a good impression for a couple of hours is different to day to day work. Many people make a good impression on HRs but get fired after a few weeks or months because they actually lack necessary skills or just don't fit the rest of the team or character of the work, not to mention that some employees well rooted in their company, should have failed to pass such interviews if those were supposed to check their ability of teamworking because their character is sometimes pathological and attitude towards other employees disgraceful.
I still don't see how the job interviewing skills have anything in common with communication skills. Acting is a very limited kind of communication.
Making a good impression for a couple of hours is different to day to day work. Many people make a good impression on HRs but get fired after a few weeks or months because they actually lack necessary skills or just don't fit the rest of the team or character of the work, not to mention that some employees well rooted in their company, should have failed to pass such interviews if those were supposed to check their ability of teamworking because their character is sometimes pathological and attitude towards other employees disgraceful.
HR people usually don't interview technical candidates for technical jobs - at best they might be sat in the interview to ask a few basic questions like "what do you know about the company", but that's about it. But also, some of the other things you mention about someone's personality aren't really about their ability to communicate properly - that's more about professionalism and general conduct.
The most important part of the interview usually involves being grilled by the senior technical staff at the company, and it usually involves being asked all kinds of technical questions, maybe being asked to give a presentation on a project, or being asked to explain their way through a technical problem, etc.
Communication skills underpin everything in an interview - if someone in an interview can't get that right, then the rest probably isn't going to go anywhere either. A big part about learning to be good at interviews involves all the same communication skills that you'd need when collaborating with co-workers, managers, clients, etc.
The no.1 cause of failure in IT projects is a breakdown in communication, and the interview is really the best opportunity for an employer to find out about that person's communication skills. If a person comes across in an interview as having weak communication skills, then it generally means that their workplace communication skills will not be up to scratch either. Any interviewer looking at a candidate will often want to be reassured that the person they're hiring is capable of effectively working in teams with other people - IT is usually a very collaborative sort of job. There's quite a pervasive myth that IT professionals are people who sit in a dark room behind their computer screens never talking to anybody, but the reality couldn't be more different - IT is a very human-interactive career.
People often make a lot of mistakes in interviews about this - some people can seem to be fairly bright and intelligent on paper, but when they're sitting in an interview they don't make eye-contact when they're talking, they mumble or waffle on and don't really answer the questions they're asked (basically from not listening or understanding what they've been asked, and instead of asking for clarification, they talk about something else). Sometimes they barely answer at all, and they give brief answers which don't make much sense because they can't articulate what they want to say, and they don't use complete sentences. etc.
This kind of thing is a big red flag to any employer who knows what they're looking for. A seasoned interviewer will want to hire people who they can trust to do the job properly, and it's very difficult to trust somebody when the only evidence of their communication skills turns out to be poor.
(edited 5 years ago)
Your post has been very informative on the matter, and thank you for such detailed description, especially since it must have taken some time to write it.
I do have one tiny objection though:
Making eye-contact is completely unnecessary in conversation, especially professional one and may even be a distraction during work. It also seems to have no connection with the ability to get on with others. Why should anyone care that someone maintains eye contact if such person is not cooperative, acts disrespectfully or gives self-contradictive instructions?
I do have one tiny objection though:
Original post by winterscoming
they don't make eye-contact when they're talking,
(...)
This kind of thing is a big red flag to any employer who knows what they're looking for.
(...)
This kind of thing is a big red flag to any employer who knows what they're looking for.
Making eye-contact is completely unnecessary in conversation, especially professional one and may even be a distraction during work. It also seems to have no connection with the ability to get on with others. Why should anyone care that someone maintains eye contact if such person is not cooperative, acts disrespectfully or gives self-contradictive instructions?
Original post by PTMalewski
Making eye-contact is completely unnecessary in conversation, especially professional one and may even be a distraction during work. It also seems to have no connection with the ability to get on with others. Why should anyone care that someone maintains eye contact if such person is not cooperative, acts disrespectfully or gives self-contradictive instructions?
Making eye-contact is completely unnecessary in conversation, especially professional one and may even be a distraction during work. It also seems to have no connection with the ability to get on with others. Why should anyone care that someone maintains eye contact if such person is not cooperative, acts disrespectfully or gives self-contradictive instructions?
This may be your personal experience, but if so, you are an outlier, not only within humans, but many, many animal species value eye contact as a form of communication - there's endless scientific evidence. So IT is full of aspergers/autists and people dancing around the edge of the spectrum, it doesn't alter the basic norms of human communication.
Original post by PTMalewski
Your post has been very informative on the matter, and thank you for such detailed description, especially since it must have taken some time to write it.
I do have one tiny objection though:
Making eye-contact is completely unnecessary in conversation, especially professional one and may even be a distraction during work. It also seems to have no connection with the ability to get on with others. Why should anyone care that someone maintains eye contact if such person is not cooperative, acts disrespectfully or gives self-contradictive instructions?
I do have one tiny objection though:
Making eye-contact is completely unnecessary in conversation, especially professional one and may even be a distraction during work. It also seems to have no connection with the ability to get on with others. Why should anyone care that someone maintains eye contact if such person is not cooperative, acts disrespectfully or gives self-contradictive instructions?
You seem to be talking about a completely different topic here, I'm talking about communication skills, not about whether their behaviour is professional.
Furthermore, I said making eye contact - i.e. for a second or two, glances, etc. I'm not talking about 'maintaining' eye contact nor staring at them in the eyes for long periods. To put it simply, it's about a speaker being focused on the person or people you're talking to, and not just spending the entire interview (or conversation/meeting/presentation) looking away or staring down while talking. If you're interviewing somebody, or listening to them in pretty much any setting, and they spend the entire time looking away and not making eye contact, then it just gives off the vibe that they're not really bothered/interested, not really focused on you, or making any effort, etc.
The way most people feel if they're listening to someone talk and the speaker is looking down at their phone, or their shoes, or staring at something on the wall, is that the speaker is not engaging with them - it makes listeners feel ignored. Of course, some people do this a lot because they insist on gluing their eyes to their phone or their laptop while they're talking; it's a clear sign of that person either having weak communication skills, or just not really being very interested in the people they're talking to.
(edited 5 years ago)
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