The UK Needs To Become a Federation like The USA, Canada, Germany and Australia Watch

Mr Daily Mail
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We need a Federal UK for the sake of the UK to remain together or for it to break up more slowly and swiftly unlike the chaotic mess we are in now. I proposed the following constitutional reforms:

Her Majesty's Houses of Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland:
  • The House of Commons should be reduced to 360 MPs
  • The House of Lords should be reduced to 180 Lords, either elected, appointed by independent commission or a mix of both, in thirds who should serve a single 15 year term and be ineligible for reelection/reappointment to the Lords and election to the Commons

Powers of the Houses of Parliament at federal UK level should consist of:
  • The Crown
  • The United Kingdom
  • The Constitution
  • Ministers of the Crown
  • Foreign Affairs
  • Defence
  • Human Rights
  • Central Bank
  • Monetary Policy
  • Federal Taxation
  • Government Borrowing
  • Currency
  • Regulation of financial services
  • National Security
  • Nationality
  • Immigration
  • Extradition
  • Emergency Powers
  • The Civil Service


The Parliament of England
  • The House of Representatives should consist of 501 MEPs (Members of English Parliament, same as proposed number of English MPs for new boundaries)
  • The Senate of England should consist of 135 Senators, each region of England would have 15 Senators each, elected in thirds to ensure the Parliament isn't too southern and metropolitan dominated

The new English Parliament alongside the Scottish Parliament, Welsh Parliament and Northern Ireland Assembly should have the power to legislate on anything that isn't reserved to the UK Houses of Parliament. This will give each nation full powers over its own domestic affairs and help give each nation its own stronger identity, whether it results in its break up, who cares it's just what needs to happen. I would also have all the UK territories and crown dependencies, most particularly Gibraltar, Isle of Man and Channel Islands to become fully British and have representation in the Houses of Parliament.

Thank you all, May God Save the Queen and God Bless the United Kingdom. Rule Britannia.
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L i b
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We do not have a "chaotic mess" right now, we have a workable constitutional settlement that reflects the different views of different parts of the UK.

Forcing us into a one-size-fits-all approach to regional autonomy simply for the sake of it is silly. It wouldn't achieve anything at all, would be a nuisance to implement and, above all, creates the significant problem of one federal unit having 90% of the population of the state.
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ColinDent
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Dear god no, we're just not a federal state kind of peoples, why do you think many of us voted to get off the EU bus before it becomes just that.
Last edited by ColinDent; 10 months ago
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Mr Daily Mail
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(Original post by L i b)
We do not have a "chaotic mess" right now, we have a workable constitutional settlement that reflects the different views of different parts of the UK.

Forcing us into a one-size-fits-all approach to regional autonomy simply for the sake of it is silly. It wouldn't achieve anything at all, would be a nuisance to implement and, above all, creates the significant problem of one federal unit having 90% of the population of the state.
Scotland, Wales and NI want more powers over their domestic affairs. England wants its own voice and needs its own idenity. Being against an English Parliament shows nothing anglophobia and a huge lack of respect to England. They are a great nation deserving of their own Parliament which would allow Scotland, Wales and NI to have more powers over their own affairs. Even if a seperate Parliament is bad in some eyes just make the House of Lords the English Parliament if its cheaper with around 300 MPs in each I guess.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by Mr Daily Mail)
We need a Federal UK for the sake of the UK to remain together or for it to break up more slowly and swiftly unlike the chaotic mess we are in now. I proposed the following constitutional reforms:

Her Majesty's Houses of Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland:
[ul]
[li]The House of Commons should be reduced to 360 MPs[/li]
[li]The House of Lords should be reduced to 180 Lords, either elected, appointed by independent commission or a mix of both, in thirds who should serve a single 15 year term and be ineligible for reelection/reappointment to the Lords and election to the Commons[/li]
[/ul]
Powers of the Houses of Parliament at federal UK level should consist of:
[ul]
[li]The Crown[/li]
[li]The United Kingdom[/li]
[li]The Constitution[/li]
[li]Ministers of the Crown[/li]
[li]Foreign Affairs[/li]
[li]Defence[/li]
[li]Human Rights[/li]
[li]Central Bank[/li]
[li]Monetary Policy[/li]
[li]Federal Taxation[/li]
[li]Government Borrowing[/li]
[li]Currency[/li]
[li]Regulation of financial services[/li]
[li]National Security[/li]
[li]Nationality[/li]
[li]Immigration[/li]
[li]Extradition[/li]
[li]Emergency Powers[/li]
[li]The Civil Service[/li]
[/ul]

The Parliament of England
[ul]
[li]The House of Representatives should consist of 501 MEPs (Members of English Parliament, same as proposed number of English MPs for new boundaries)[/li]
[li]The Senate of England should consist of 135 Senators, each region of England would have 15 Senators each, elected in thirds to ensure the Parliament isn't too southern and metropolitan dominated[/li]
[/ul]
The new English Parliament alongside the Scottish Parliament, Welsh Parliament and Northern Ireland Assembly should have the power to legislate on anything that isn't reserved to the UK Houses of Parliament. This will give each nation full powers over its own domestic affairs and help give each nation its own stronger identity, whether it results in its break up, who cares it's just what needs to happen. I would also have all the UK territories and crown dependencies, most particularly Gibraltar, Isle of Man and Channel Islands to become fully British and have representation in the Houses of Parliament.

Thank you all, May God Save the Queen and God Bless the United Kingdom. Rule Britannia.
Why do we need an English Parliament?

English MPs currently represent 82% of the MPs in the House of Commons. They can already legislate over anything which will affect England and, if they so choose, England alone. Even if MPs from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland objected in unison to an act proposed and supported by English MPs they'd fail immediately because they are a minority.

Essentially your proposal doesn't change anything, at least not for English people. You're just adding more bureaucracy under the banner of self-determination and cultural identity.

The only reason we have devolution is to give greater autonomy to smaller regions of a country. Devolution for England does not make sense since it already has total control over it's own affairs. If we were to devolve the UK any further it would be either by giving greater powers to existing regional governments or by splitting up England into smaller autonomous regions (London, Midlands, South-West, South-East, etc).
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Mr Daily Mail
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
Why do we need an English Parliament?

English MPs currently represent 82% of the MPs in the House of Commons. They can already legislate over anything which will affect England and, if they so choose, England alone. Even if MPs from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland objected in unison to an act proposed and supported by English MPs they'd fail immediately because they are a minority.

Essentially your proposal doesn't change anything, at least not for English people. You're just adding more bureaucracy under the banner of self-determination and cultural identity.

The only reason we have devolution is to give greater autonomy to smaller regions of a country. Devolution for England does not make sense since it already has total control over it's own affairs. If we were to devolve the UK any further it would be either by giving greater powers to existing regional governments or by splitting up England into smaller autonomous regions (London, Midlands, South-West, South-East, etc).
This is a great speech by Andrew Rosindell MP which points out everything on why an English Parliament is a must. I dare you too and the rest of TSR to disagree with him:
https://www.rosindell.com/news/new-c...united-kingdom
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L i b
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(Original post by Mr Daily Mail)
Scotland, Wales and NI want more powers over their domestic affairs. England wants its own voice and needs its own idenity. Being against an English Parliament shows nothing anglophobia and a huge lack of respect to England. They are a great nation deserving of their own Parliament which would allow Scotland, Wales and NI to have more powers over their own affairs. Even if a seperate Parliament is bad in some eyes just make the House of Lords the English Parliament if its cheaper with around 300 MPs in each I guess.
There has never been the settled will among the people of England to have a devolved parliament under any model. Devolution in Scotland, for example, was based on decades of campaigning, setting out a clear way forward among civic society and securing an election win where devolution was a manifesto commitment of the governing party. It was not something that came about lightly, nor was it thrust upon Scotland to make a constitutional settlement that seemed comfortable.

In regard to Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland - federalism is a constitutional model. It doesn't come with some pre-defined limit or extent of powers. Indeed, in terms of spending power the Scottish Parliament already has considerably more powers than most units in developed federal states.

Quite what this has to do with the House of Lords, I have no idea. The House of Lords is a revising chamber of the UK Parliament. It has absolutely nothing to do with England or an English Parliament.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by Mr Daily Mail)
This is a great speech by Andrew Rosindell MP which points out everything on why an English Parliament is a must. I dare you too and the rest of TSR to disagree with him:
https://www.rosindell.com/news/new-c...united-kingdom
I'm not having a conversation with Andrew Rosindell, I'm having a conversation with you.

Can you make a case for an English Parliament, yes or not?

Do you disagree with anything I've said in my post. If so, why?
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by Mr Daily Mail)
We need a Federal UK for the sake of the UK to remain together or for it to break up more slowly and swiftly unlike the chaotic mess we are in now. I proposed the following constitutional reforms:

Her Majesty's Houses of Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland:
[ul]
[li]The House of Commons should be reduced to 360 MPs[/li]
[li]The House of Lords should be reduced to 180 Lords, either elected, appointed by independent commission or a mix of both, in thirds who should serve a single 15 year term and be ineligible for reelection/reappointment to the Lords and election to the Commons[/li]
[/ul]
Powers of the Houses of Parliament at federal UK level should consist of:
[ul]
[li]The Crown[/li]
[li]The United Kingdom[/li]
[li]The Constitution[/li]
[li]Ministers of the Crown[/li]
[li]Foreign Affairs[/li]
[li]Defence[/li]
[li]Human Rights[/li]
[li]Central Bank[/li]
[li]Monetary Policy[/li]
[li]Federal Taxation[/li]
[li]Government Borrowing[/li]
[li]Currency[/li]
[li]Regulation of financial services[/li]
[li]National Security[/li]
[li]Nationality[/li]
[li]Immigration[/li]
[li]Extradition[/li]
[li]Emergency Powers[/li]
[li]The Civil Service[/li]
[/ul]

The Parliament of England
[ul]
[li]The House of Representatives should consist of 501 MEPs (Members of English Parliament, same as proposed number of English MPs for new boundaries)[/li]
[li]The Senate of England should consist of 135 Senators, each region of England would have 15 Senators each, elected in thirds to ensure the Parliament isn't too southern and metropolitan dominated[/li]
[/ul]
The new English Parliament alongside the Scottish Parliament, Welsh Parliament and Northern Ireland Assembly should have the power to legislate on anything that isn't reserved to the UK Houses of Parliament. This will give each nation full powers over its own domestic affairs and help give each nation its own stronger identity, whether it results in its break up, who cares it's just what needs to happen. I would also have all the UK territories and crown dependencies, most particularly Gibraltar, Isle of Man and Channel Islands to become fully British and have representation in the Houses of Parliament.

Thank you all, May God Save the Queen and God Bless the United Kingdom. Rule Britannia.
You claimed that there is chaos now, but what you are suggesting would bring in Armageddon. There will be ruler upon ruler.

The main issue would be responsibilty and accountability. The English or Scottish Parliament would blame the UK Parliament for all the problems faced in the local territory. The same will happen vice versa. Everyone will pass the buck and nothing will get resolved.

The new system will be like the current system with the EU. Local politicians would want a greater say in local matters while the national politicians would want to keep the status quo. London would also be blasted and used as a scapegoat.

To me, i think the best thing would be to keep the current setup and reform representation. This will enable better representation and a better funding formular for local and regional governments.
Last edited by Wired_1800; 10 months ago
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Fullofsurprises
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I like the idea of a Federal Britain, but I would go a step further and encourage Ireland to join a Federation of These Islands. There are many reasons why - our histories are deeply intertwined for both good and ill - our economic structure is essentially one unit, notwithstanding the Euro/£ separation - and Ireland is in so many ways simply an offshored replica of the UK with minor local brand names. There is a distinct Irish identity of course, but that would in no way be diminished by federation, any more than a Cornish, Yorkshire, or Scottish one would.
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Rakas21
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I am wholly opposed to federalisation. Handing the SNP more power for example would be akin to feeding a junkie and creating an English parliament would encourage English rather than British identity.

What i'd like to see is a regional Lords equally split.
Last edited by Rakas21; 10 months ago
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Drewski
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(Original post by Mr Daily Mail)
We need a Federal UK for the sake of the UK to remain together or for it to break up more slowly and swiftly
I realise you're a troll and all that... But how can something be more slow and more swift at the same time?
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Other_Owl
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Germany is part of the EU...
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ScottishBrexitor
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A federal UK would be briliant. This would be the perfect opprotunity to introduce tax competition into the UK to a greater level. I say we have four Parliaments, one for each of the four nations and have them set and collect their own income tax, corporation tax, inheritance tax, capital gains tax, other taxes while the UK can retain national insurance, value added tax and excise duties. Competition within the UK can only be a good thing!

(Original post by Rakas21)
I am wholly opposed to federalisation. Handing the SNP more power for example would be akin to feeding a junkie and creating an English parliament would encourage English rather than British identity.

What i'd like to see is a regional Lords equally split.
Nothing wrong with English idenity. Didn't cause much problems in Russia 2018.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by ScottishBrexitor)
A federal UK would be briliant. This would be the perfect opprotunity to introduce tax competition into the UK to a greater level. I say we have four Parliaments, one for each of the four nations and have them set and collect their own income tax, corporation tax, inheritance tax, capital gains tax, other taxes while the UK can retain national insurance, value added tax and excise duties. Competition within the UK can only be a good thing!


Nothing wrong with English idenity. Didn't cause much problems in Russia 2018.
There is if you value the long term future of the union.
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ScottishBrexitor
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(Original post by Rakas21)
There is if you value the long term future of the union.
Under your logic the United States and Canada will break up into seperate sovereign state soon, which of course they won't.

The likes of Texas, Florida, California and New York have strong identities but the long term future of their repsective union isn't going to break up anytime soon. Why are England, Scotland, Wales and NI any different?
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Rakas21
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(Original post by ScottishBrexitor)
Under your logic the United States and Canada will break up into seperate sovereign state soon, which of course they won't.

The likes of Texas, Florida, California and New York have strong identities but the long term future of their repsective union isn't going to break up anytime soon. Why are England, Scotland, Wales and NI any different?
For one thing Qubec may well actually go. But mainly you have to bear in mind context. The US was formed with a federal structure and bar the Civil War it had had 200 years to find a balance. The UK has always been unitary and there's no guarantee that when we relax the lead, they won't go too far.
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Mr Daily Mail
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(Original post by Rakas21)
I am wholly opposed to federalisation. Handing the SNP more power for example would be akin to feeding a junkie and creating an English parliament would encourage English rather than British identity.

What i'd like to see is a regional Lords equally split.
How would the lords be split? Equally between the 12 NUTS1 regions or equally between each nation? Also would they still be appointed or elected?
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Mr Daily Mail)
How would the lords be split? Equally between the 12 NUTS1 regions or equally between each nation? Also would they still be appointed or elected?
Split to 10 regions of 50 lords each (scotland, wales, ni would each get their 50).
Go by GE vote shares to avoid the need for another ballot.
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MrDystopia
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(Original post by Other_Owl)
Germany is part of the EU...
Which is relevant how?
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