The UK is to offer full Citizenship to Hong Kong Residents. Thoughts?

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username4222532
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(Original post by faucets)
i'm from hk and thank you what you've said - half of this thread is about how there are 7 million Hong Kongers but only 3 million are eligible to move to the UK, and personally I don't know many people who are planning on moving there. interestingly enough, some of us want to move to other, less xenophobic countries!! anybody who would move to the UK as part of this scheme would probably be affluent enough to contribute a lot more to the economy than they take and wouldn't be the British taxpayer's responsibility please enlighten me as to why the general public would have to pay for us??? we're not refugees?? nobody from Hong Kong would move to the UK without secure finances and knowing what they're getting into.
l agree with you 100% they would be affluent
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73iso
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I think all Hong Kong citizens should be welcome here.
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username4222532
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(Original post by 73iso)
I think all Hong Kong citizens should be welcome here.
Well we are open door in Scotland we would take some in
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(Original post by faucets)
i'm from hk and thank you what you've said - half of this thread is about how there are 7 million Hong Kongers but only 3 million are eligible to move to the UK, and personally I don't know many people who are planning on moving there. interestingly enough, some of us want to move to other, less xenophobic countries!! anybody who would move to the UK as part of this scheme would probably be affluent enough to contribute a lot more to the economy than they take and wouldn't be the British taxpayer's responsibility please enlighten me as to why the general public would have to pay for us??? we're not refugees?? nobody from Hong Kong would move to the UK without secure finances and knowing what they're getting into.
I live in the UK and I can tell you that those xenophobic bigots you speak of do not represent the whole of the UK, as there are plenty of kind hearted folk who would give you and other Hong Kongers a warm welcome.
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73iso
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The thing I find ridiculous with the problem of Brexit and the undertone of xenophobic populism is that people keep blaming immigrants for problems which the Conservatives are causing with their tax cuts for the rich and their strangulation of public spending. That is the reason why schools and hospitals are full, and instead of seeing what the real problem is, people point their finger at immigration and label it as the root cause of all of their problems. It is stupid. It really is stupid. Countries like Norway and Sweden have higher tax rates than the UK and they also have a better quality of life because their public services are funded better as they don't waste their time and money implementing tax cuts for the rich like what people do here in the UK. Norway was smart with their income gained from oil. Instead of privatising their oil industry they kept it owned by the state so that they could reap a higher share of its income and they put their money in an investment fund which has been valued at trillions of dollars. Now why are our public services underfunded? It's because people here keep voting Conservative. That's the true cause of our failure to maintain well funded public services, but despite this, people still continue to vote Conservative. Despite Brexit being deemed as a disaster, people still continue to vote for it. To coin a popular phrase, it's like turkeys voting for Christmas. Democracy can only function optimally when voters are sufficiently aware of the real causes of their problems and the consequences of their actions. It does not work in a sea of misinformation, blatant ignorance and apathy.
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wheelbarrow-man
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(Original post by faucets)
i'm from hk and thank you what you've said - half of this thread is about how there are 7 million Hong Kongers but only 3 million are eligible to move to the UK, and personally I don't know many people who are planning on moving there. interestingly enough, some of us want to move to other, less xenophobic countries!! anybody who would move to the UK as part of this scheme would probably be affluent enough to contribute a lot more to the economy than they take and wouldn't be the British taxpayer's responsibility please enlighten me as to why the general public would have to pay for us??? we're not refugees?? nobody from Hong Kong would move to the UK without secure finances and knowing what they're getting into.
I'm all for HK-ers coming to the UK (very enthusiastic, actually), but of course there are going to be sections of the population who will be uneasy at the fact that a large number of people may consider moving to the UK. Many people in this country probably have never felt as economically precarious as they do right now for several reasons - Covid, the leap out of the EU into the unknown, a general feeling that public services are under strain and so on. I'm sure you can probably empathise with this to some degree.

I'm interested in your statement that you would prefer to go to a less xenophobic country than the UK, and I would like to know which countries you feel fit this description. We often see British people hand-wringing and self-flagellating about our alleged racism and xenophobia, but it's interesting to hear an outside perspective. Personally, I think the UK has a lot wrong with it, but I think our openness to welcoming immigrants is actually something we should be relatively proud of, and do rather well in comparison to other countries.

If I look at Europe, I see countries such as Spain, Italy, Germany and France who (like the UK in many respects) are not enjoying an entirely smooth experience integrating millions of immigrants. Each country has a prominent far right movement who I would suggest are better organised and are taken more seriously than anything in the UK. One sort of suspects that the majority of immigrants who are Europe-bound appear to have the UK as their first choice destination - and there must be a reason for this. I look to eastern Europe which is much less open and enthusiastic about non-European immigration than the UK. I look to The US, which is currently governed by a fat, ignorant, narcissistic proto-fascist nutjob, I look to Australia which is no more welcoming to immigrants than the UK, and actually holds many prospective immigrants offshore in camps little better than prisons. I look to Japan which jealously guards its citizenship, even from ethnic Japanese who were born abroad. I look to southern Africa (where I have lived) and remember the increasingly suspicious attitude local people have towards the Chinese (who are extracting much of the continent's natural resources on terms that could be considered exploitative, and who frequently treat their local workforce appallingly)...

Happy to hear your views on this, and your destinations of choice.
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JokesOnYoo
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One thing is for sho, the average IQ of that country increase hahaha
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Napp
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(Original post by laughinglad999)
l think many will go to / New Zealand /
What makes you think Wellington will allow them in any significant number? The immigration numbers, especially from Asia, have already created a toxic political atmosphere for such things.
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(Original post by Napp)
What makes you think Wellington will allow them in any significant number? The immigration numbers, especially from Asia, have already created a toxic political atmosphere for such things.
Well we will have to wait and see
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Napp
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(Original post by laughinglad999)
Well we will have to wait and see
There's little to wait on, neither Labour/NZ First nor National would commit electoral suicide by allowing any significant number of migrants through the boarder. Canberra might to stick it to Beijing but NZ is much too small.
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faucets
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(Original post by wheelbarrow-man)
I'm all for HK-ers coming to the UK (very enthusiastic, actually), but of course there are going to be sections of the population who will be uneasy at the fact that a large number of people may consider moving to the UK. Many people in this country probably have never felt as economically precarious as they do right now for several reasons - Covid, the leap out of the EU into the unknown, a general feeling that public services are under strain and so on. I'm sure you can probably empathise with this to some degree.

I'm interested in your statement that you would prefer to go to a less xenophobic country than the UK, and I would like to know which countries you feel fit this description. We often see British people hand-wringing and self-flagellating about our alleged racism and xenophobia, but it's interesting to hear an outside perspective. Personally, I think the UK has a lot wrong with it, but I think our openness to welcoming immigrants is actually something we should be relatively proud of, and do rather well in comparison to other countries.

If I look at Europe, I see countries such as Spain, Italy, Germany and France who (like the UK in many respects) are not enjoying an entirely smooth experience integrating millions of immigrants. Each country has a prominent far right movement who I would suggest are better organised and are taken more seriously than anything in the UK. One sort of suspects that the majority of immigrants who are Europe-bound appear to have the UK as their first choice destination - and there must be a reason for this. I look to eastern Europe which is much less open and enthusiastic about non-European immigration than the UK. I look to The US, which is currently governed by a fat, ignorant, narcissistic proto-fascist nutjob, I look to Australia which is no more welcoming to immigrants than the UK, and actually holds many prospective immigrants offshore in camps little better than prisons. I look to Japan which jealously guards its citizenship, even from ethnic Japanese who were born abroad. I look to southern Africa (where I have lived) and remember the increasingly suspicious attitude local people have towards the Chinese (who are extracting much of the continent's natural resources on terms that could be considered exploitative, and who frequently treat their local workforce appallingly)...

Happy to hear your views on this, and your destinations of choice.
Thank you (and everybody else with similar views) for supporting this policy - when I said we'd prefer to go to a less xenophobic country than the UK that was mostly out of annoyance with what some other people had commented, and I understand that those opinions do not represent the whole of Britain. To answer your question, I suppose every country has its own racism issue, but they revolve around different ethnicities in different places. In Hong Kong, ethnic minorities that face racism are mostly those from the Indian subcontinent (not many black people live in Hong Kong, but the ones that are definitely face racism on a daily basis. I believe Caucasians make up a significant percentage of the ethnic minorities in Hong Kong, however, nearly all of them are well-off and the racism they experience doesn't affect their overall quality of life as much). I can't speak for everyone in HK, but the UK's racism has never seemed as serious as America's, and we don't pay much attention to the levels of racism in other countries. Perhaps it's because we have more pressing political issues facing us right now, but growing up I never learnt about racism in Australia or Japan. Countries like Canada and Australia appear to be less racist since there are many established Chinese communities there (however sinophobia and racism, in general, is still prevalent in those places)

I go to an international school following the IGCSE and IB curriculum, and most of our students go to university in the UK. This may be largely due to the fact that our school is a "British" school and if we were to go to other countries e.g. the U.S., we'd be required to take external exams (SATs/ACTs) in our own time, which would be a distraction from the already challenging workload of the IB. I'd agree with you that most people who go to Europe don't consider other countries except for the UK; to be able to go overseas and study pretty much means you have enough money to get into a good school - Hong Kong University is 22nd in the world (QS 2021 I think) and two or three of the other local universities aren't too far behind. Strictly speaking from the perspective of a parent, why would you send your child to a relatively unknown college in Sweden or Portugal when most of the best universities in Europe are in the UK? Additionally, we used to be a British colony, and thus most of us were brought up speaking English. It's a lot easier to immigrate to the UK since they speak English, than Croatia and learn a whole new language.

It surprises me how many Chinese people I know are still heading to the U.S. for boarding school/higher education. My parents have always pushed me towards the UK and Canada, and away from the U.S., fearing I'll get shot and because of the unbelievably exorbitant higher education fees. Despite these two factors, their excuse of a president (your description was rather accurate) and other issues in society, I still want to go to America for university very much. When you look at world university rankings, American universities tend to top the lists, which embarrassingly is the main reason I want to go. Other reasons are a little immature, but Britain sometimes seems so... rainy, dull or cold (though the last one might change soon because of climate change!). I have a Canadian passport and family in Canada, but Canada also seems so... boring. I am somewhat ashamed of these naive views, but the general idea is if I don't get into my top choice of uni in England, I'd go to America (after earning a scholarship because my family isn't affluent enough to afford 4 years of university there). I'm most drawn to Amherst College for its open course curriculum and its high ranking, though in HK the only American universities with any prestige are the Ivy League. My mom had never heard of Caltech (approx. 4th in the world, QS world 2020) until Alex in Modern Family went there. Now that I've written out my own aspirations, I suppose everybody who's still heading to the U.S. does so, not because they're not afraid of how much more "dangerous" America is, but because the pull factors are just too great to ignore.

I've spent a really long time on this, but I just wanted to say I understand why some Brits are worried about Hong Kongers moving to Britain, with everything that's going on in the world right now. Nobody will take a move to the UK lightly, and only those who can afford an upheaval of their lives will do so. We would really appreciate you welcoming us, as many Hong Kongers currently don't feel at ease in their own city. I have faith that the Hong Kongers that do move will try to get along with their local community as well as possible, without disrupting anybody.

(also please don't attack me for saying Britain seems dull!!)
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wheelbarrow-man
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(Original post by faucets)
Thank you (and everybody else with similar views) for supporting this policy - when I said we'd prefer to go to a less xenophobic country than the UK that was mostly out of annoyance with what some other people had commented, and I understand that those opinions do not represent the whole of Britain. To answer your question, I suppose every country has its own racism issue, but they revolve around different ethnicities in different places. In Hong Kong, ethnic minorities that face racism are mostly those from the Indian subcontinent (not many black people live in Hong Kong, but the ones that are definitely face racism on a daily basis. I believe Caucasians make up a significant percentage of the ethnic minorities in Hong Kong, however, nearly all of them are well-off and the racism they experience doesn't affect their overall quality of life as much). I can't speak for everyone in HK, but the UK's racism has never seemed as serious as America's, and we don't pay much attention to the levels of racism in other countries. Perhaps it's because we have more pressing political issues facing us right now, but growing up I never learnt about racism in Australia or Japan. Countries like Canada and Australia appear to be less racist since there are many established Chinese communities there (however sinophobia and racism, in general, is still prevalent in those places)

I go to an international school following the IGCSE and IB curriculum, and most of our students go to university in the UK. This may be largely due to the fact that our school is a "British" school and if we were to go to other countries e.g. the U.S., we'd be required to take external exams (SATs/ACTs) in our own time, which would be a distraction from the already challenging workload of the IB. I'd agree with you that most people who go to Europe don't consider other countries except for the UK; to be able to go overseas and study pretty much means you have enough money to get into a good school - Hong Kong University is 22nd in the world (QS 2021 I think) and two or three of the other local universities aren't too far behind. Strictly speaking from the perspective of a parent, why would you send your child to a relatively unknown college in Sweden or Portugal when most of the best universities in Europe are in the UK? Additionally, we used to be a British colony, and thus most of us were brought up speaking English. It's a lot easier to immigrate to the UK since they speak English, than Croatia and learn a whole new language.

It surprises me how many Chinese people I know are still heading to the U.S. for boarding school/higher education. My parents have always pushed me towards the UK and Canada, and away from the U.S., fearing I'll get shot and because of the unbelievably exorbitant higher education fees. Despite these two factors, their excuse of a president (your description was rather accurate) and other issues in society, I still want to go to America for university very much. When you look at world university rankings, American universities tend to top the lists, which embarrassingly is the main reason I want to go. Other reasons are a little immature, but Britain sometimes seems so... rainy, dull or cold (though the last one might change soon because of climate change!). I have a Canadian passport and family in Canada, but Canada also seems so... boring. I am somewhat ashamed of these naive views, but the general idea is if I don't get into my top choice of uni in England, I'd go to America (after earning a scholarship because my family isn't affluent enough to afford 4 years of university there). I'm most drawn to Amherst College for its open course curriculum and its high ranking, though in HK the only American universities with any prestige are the Ivy League. My mom had never heard of Caltech (approx. 4th in the world, QS world 2020) until Alex in Modern Family went there. Now that I've written out my own aspirations, I suppose everybody who's still heading to the U.S. does so, not because they're not afraid of how much more "dangerous" America is, but because the pull factors are just too great to ignore.

I've spent a really long time on this, but I just wanted to say I understand why some Brits are worried about Hong Kongers moving to Britain, with everything that's going on in the world right now. Nobody will take a move to the UK lightly, and only those who can afford an upheaval of their lives will do so. We would really appreciate you welcoming us, as many Hong Kongers currently don't feel at ease in their own city. I have faith that the Hong Kongers that do move will try to get along with their local community as well as possible, without disrupting anybody.

(also please don't attack me for saying Britain seems dull!!)
Thanks for your thoughtful reply!

And much of Britain can be rather dull - guilty as charged (and why I escaped after finishing school here).
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I think for a Hong Kong person it is good to see an additional option but I see even a million people committed to stay in the UK is unthinkable. I believe many will find a huge trade off (in terms of adapting to a new society or financially) or the citizenship issue was already sorted out by their parents or grandparents in the much earlier stages of migration (also migrating to say one of the popular destinations were far easier back then).

I feel also that Hong Kong people care about values such as freedom and democracy because they care about Hong Kong, they want to make positive changes, but that right is slowly taken away. If you put them in the UK however, is not a country that they are born to relate to and the incentive to participate actively will probably be low. The benefit of moving to the UK, which is for living in a free society, may actually be non-material after all.

Many impulse knee-jerk responses will come about in the HK ("oh yes, now I can go to UK to get a job as an engineer!") or in the UK ("3 million of them coming!?") but realistically I think those who come and stay for more than 6 years will be a small amount, and for those who do stay longer than 6 years, I do hope most have already made the effort to integrate to the society and if they do, that's definitely a plus imo
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El Salvador
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(Original post by BlueIndigoViolet)
esp with BJ, not holding my breath till we see it, think it was a path to citizenship, but a risky move due to China's huge and growing influence
UK's visa and immigration policies with regards to British nationals overseas is a domestic matter and China should not intervene.
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El Salvador
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(Original post by Sam.C.Mat)
Bad idea.
This was predictable when they handed HK back, it was always going to be taken back into mainstream China.
HK also has a population of 7.5 million.

There's a better idea out there than this, I just don't know what it is.
Most of Hong Kong are not British nationals overseas, and even countries like Syria and Venezuela still have most of its population staying in their countries. What makes you think a large portion of those who are eligible will move to the UK?
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El Salvador
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(Original post by chocolate_fan)
Only 3 million will actually be eligible, and it's highly unlikely anywhere close to that number will move to to the UK.I'd be surprised if it was even a million.
Sadly with China's growing influence and power, I don't think there is any better way, short of all out war.
(Original post by 999tigger)
Good idea although China will retaliate, so expect fewer Chinese students. Chinese people are amongst the most industrious, hard working groups that integrate well. I would be surprised if it was a million.
(Original post by Sabertooth)
The UK would be in big trouble if there was a sudden influx of 1million immigrants.
(Original post by SMEGGGY)
Three million people are entitled to come and live here, that's scary. Obviously not all coming together but sporadically I think but still, 65 million population already.
(Original post by Hudds999)
Wow, 3 million+ is a hell of a lot. There’s 55 million people in a small country like England alone, where are they going to get housed?
(Original post by anaa100)
agree 100%, we already have a huge immigration problem. I though everyone voted for PM Boris Johnson did so because he is tough on immigration and Brexit. Hell, hes doing the opposite
I would be surprised if there are even 50,000 moving. Right after the Tiananmen Massacre, which prompted the largest demonstration in Hong Kong at the time (a record later broken last year with one of the anti-extradition bill rallies) and an exodus, Baroness Thatcher, then prime minister, proposed a plan to relocated 50,000 rich and powerful families in Hong Kong to the UK. They were directly offered the British citizenship, yet the 50,000 quota wasn't even filled at that time, and many of them, such as former Chief Executive CY Leung, Chief Executive Carrie Lam, President of the Legislative Council Andrew Leung, went back to Hong Kong shortly. The "mass exodus" at the time resulted in a total of 300,000 Hongkongers fleeing Chinese control, meaning setting the expectation even at a 6-digit number is highly unrealistic.

1. Most people will never leave their home country or their hometown for a variety of reasons. They prefer staying somewhere they are familiar with, they cannot be bothered to move anywhere, they love where they are and are willing to tolerate the harsh conditions, come what may. Even warzones like Syria and Venezuela have the overwhelming majority of their population staying in their countries. There are more people moving from the United States to Mexico, than there are from Mexico to the United States.

2. When the UK was in the European Union, 446 million people were eligible to move to the UK, under much more relaxed conditions with no application needed. Why are people now panicking over fewer than 3 million?

3. Hong Kong is one of the safest countries in the world - No 6 in the world this year, whilst UK is at No 70.

4. Hong Kong is one of the richest places in the world, with a GDP per capita of USD$72,527, at No 11 in the world; UK is at USD$48.169 and at No 27 globally.

5. Hong Kong had the world's best healthcare system, as recent as 2018.

6. Hong Kong has the world's best infrastructure, as recent as 2015.

7. Hong Kong is more popular for immigrants to move to, compared to the UK.

8. In 2019, Hong Kong's unemployment rate was 3.63%, whilst the UK had a 3.85% unemployment rate.

9. In the last decade, Hong Kong also had the world's best theme park (Ocean Park), best airline (Cathy Pacific), best airport, and in 2018, almost 70 million tourists visited Hong Kong, as opposed to 37.9 million who visited the entire UK. These all show the draw of Hong Kong.

10. Hong Kong is also free of almost all natural disasters, and the typhoons it does get rarely ever lead to any damage in the city.

11. People with a professional qualification, such as doctors, nurses, teachers, lawyers, accountants, are not accredited or licensed in the UK. They are not likely to move.

12. People with parents, adult children who are not eligible are not likely to simply abandon their family and move to the UK.

13. People who don't speak English well or are otherwise uncomfortable with speaking English will not likely move.

There's also the fact that so far Taiwan, Australia, Canada, and the United States are all launching plans to receive Hongkongers, with Japan and France also considering doing so. There are also Hongkongers such as myself who have already migrated or are able to migrate to another country, who may not consider moving to the UK afterwards. What makes you think all those who are eligible will move to the UK? What makes you think all those who will move will move to the UK?

At the moment, 0.4% of Hong Kong are British citizens, whilst 0.1% of the UK are from Hong Kong. If there's free movement between Hong Kong and the UK, it's doubtful even whether there would be more Hongkongers who move to the UK than there are Britons who would move to Hong Kong.

Don't get me wrong - there are real problems in Hong Kong right now, and many people will be considering fleeing Chinese control. But with Hong Kong being a safer, richer, more convenient place to live in, it's absurd to suggest that a significant number of the population will move. If armed conflicts happen in Hong Kong, and Hong Kong is to be turned into a mass concentration camp like it is the case in East Turkistan, then there will be refugees, but refugees can't fly easily all the way to the UK. It will be the neighbouring countries who will harbour the overwhelming majority of those Hong Kong refugees.
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El Salvador
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(Original post by Sam.C.Mat)
I wouldn't put much faith in China allowing HK residents to move their assets abroad easily.
I think a model where they arrive with similar resources to any other political refugee is more likely.
Whilst with everything it's done in the past year, it's obvious that China is willing to take the risk of sacrificing Hong Kong's capability as an international finance centre, restricting the flow of assets will be the end of it ever having any ability to be a financial centre. China also needs Hong Kong's freeflow of capital to make money for themselves and for their own rich and powerful to get money out of China.
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El Salvador
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(Original post by Lollipopslife)
Nice gesture but I doubt if they wanna come to the UK. Moreover, would China allow people to leave? They would be guarding the ports 🤦🏽*♀️
It is possible for China to restrict movement for Hong Kong people, although Hong Kong's constitution does guarantee Hongkongers' right to leave the region.
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El Salvador
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(Original post by Napp)
There's little to wait on, neither Labour/NZ First nor National would commit electoral suicide by allowing any significant number of migrants through the boarder. Canberra might to stick it to Beijing but NZ is much too small.
Australia has already launched its plan to allow Hongkongers to extend their stay in Australia.
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(Original post by El Salvador)
Australia has already launched its plan to allow Hongkongers to extend their stay in Australia.
As in ones who are already there as opposed to allowing many more in?
Props to them either way.
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