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Becoming a lawyer in USA?

I want to be a criminal lawyer in USA. But I am unsure how to get there. Would it be better to to do an undergraduate degree in a British university here in England and then transfer to do a law degree in America as a postgraduate? Any opinions would be useful - thanks in advance.

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I’m not entirely certain but I think you could take the bar exam after your undergraduate degree in the UK. I’m not entirely sure however I’ve seen some commercial law trainees qualify as general attorneys in New York but that was after they had taken the LPC.

Here’s a link: https://collegelearners.com/how-to-become-a-lawyer-in-america-with-a-uk-degree/
Law degrees only exist as graduate degrees in the US, so no matter what you need to do an undergrad degree somewhere first. There are one or two jurisdictions where you can take the bar exam with a foreign law degree (I think NY and maybe DC or California?), and a few more with a foreign law degree plus US LLM.

Note that this does not help you actually get hired as a lawyer there, and due to US working visa requirements, a company can only sponsor you for a working visa if they can demonstrate there are no comparably qualified American applicants for that role (which there usually will be except for very small regional positions). Figuring out how to immigrate to the US is probably the first thing you need to do.
(edited 3 years ago)
Original post by artful_lounger
Law degrees only exist as graduate degrees in the US, so no matter what you need to do an undergrad degree somewhere first. There are one or two jurisdictions where you can take the bar exam with a foreign law degree (I think NY and maybe DC or California?), and a few more with a foreign law degree plus US LLM.

Note that this does not help you actually get hired as a lawyer there, and due to US working visa requirements, a company can only sponsor you for a working visa if they can demonstrate there are no comparably qualified American applicants for that role (which there usually will be except for very small regional positions). Figuring out how to immigrate to the US is probably the first thing you need to do.

Thanks, so does this mean that it's impossible then, because working in the US is something I've always wanted to do? I am aware that it will be a lengthy process, regarding visas.
Original post by Hassan116
I’m not entirely certain but I think you could take the bar exam after your undergraduate degree in the UK. I’m not entirely sure however I’ve seen some commercial law trainees qualify as general attorneys in New York but that was after they had taken the LPC.

Here’s a link: https://collegelearners.com/how-to-become-a-lawyer-in-america-with-a-uk-degree/

Thanks
Original post by EH34
I want to be a criminal lawyer in USA. But I am unsure how to get there. Would it be better to to do an undergraduate degree in a British university here in England and then transfer to do a law degree in America as a postgraduate? Any opinions would be useful - thanks in advance.

Out of interest, why do you want to do crime in the US rather than here?
Original post by Hassan116
I’m not entirely certain but I think you could take the bar exam after your undergraduate degree in the UK. I’m not entirely sure however I’ve seen some commercial law trainees qualify as general attorneys in New York but that was after they had taken the LPC.

Here’s a link: https://collegelearners.com/how-to-become-a-lawyer-in-america-with-a-uk-degree/

Thanks

Original post by legalhelp
Out of interest, why do you want to do crime in the US rather than here?

I've just always wanted to work in the US, I don't really like the UK, to be honest I find it boring. Also, criminal lawyers don't get paid enough to live off in this country. There aren't silly cuts to legal aid in US like here
Original post by legalhelp
Out of interest, why do you want to do crime in the US rather than here?

I've just always wanted to work in the US, I don't really like the UK, to be honest I find it boring. Also, criminal lawyers don't get paid enough to live off in this country. There aren't silly cuts to legal aid in US like here
Original post by EH34
I've just always wanted to work in the US, I don't really like the UK, to be honest I find it boring. Also, criminal lawyers don't get paid enough to live off in this country. There aren't silly cuts to legal aid in US like here

Fair enough if you just like the US. But if the reason you are not even considering a career at the criminal bar or as a criminal solicitor here is because of legal aid cuts, it’s not that simple. You can make a living - even good money - as a criminal lawyer in the U.K. I also suspect you would struggle to get a criminal firm in the US (which are generally quite small) to sponsor you as a non-US citizen for a green card - even more so than if you were trying to get a job at a big international US firm (which is still difficult).
Original post by EH34
Thanks, so does this mean that it's impossible then, because working in the US is something I've always wanted to do? I am aware that it will be a lengthy process, regarding visas.


Essentially it's very difficult to get a company to sponsor a working visa in the US, especially in any major city, unless you are really outstanding; think Oxbridge grad with double 1st, distinction in a "top" masters (e.g. the BCL or a similarly perceived LLM programme, especially from a US law school), and a good amount of legal experience (in the UK presumably) and you are qualified to practice law in the US. If you don't mind being working in Boise, Idaho for a regional firm then you might not need such high flying qualifications. Equally if instead of going through being sponsored by a company for a working visa, you aim for the usual green card route, that might not have such requirements. But it is still difficult and expensive that way (unless you marry an American of course).

Also I'm skeptical that the US is much better for criminal law, or that there aren't extensive cuts to legal aid there. If anything across the board, there is less social and welfare support in the US than in the UK, and any kind of government spending on "aid" tends to get viewed pretty negatively, politically, by a large swathe of the electorate (and by the Republicans). There is a pretty widespread distrust for "big government", which includes basically any form of government spending, which the Republicans tend to side with, to a large extent. The Democrats don't, but they're also rampantly incompetent (see for example recently, despite holding a majority in all branches of the government ensuring they can pass any legislation they choose even if no Republicans vote for it, they actually managed to haggle themselves down on the stimulus package recently passed, and reduced it considerably, for essentially no reason).
Original post by artful_lounger
Essentially it's very difficult to get a company to sponsor a working visa in the US, especially in any major city, unless you are really outstanding; think Oxbridge grad with double 1st, distinction in a "top" masters (e.g. the BCL or a similarly perceived LLM programme, especially from a US law school), and a good amount of legal experience (in the UK presumably) and you are qualified to practice law in the US. If you don't mind being working in Boise, Idaho for a regional firm then you might not need such high flying qualifications. Equally if instead of going through being sponsored by a company for a working visa, you aim for the usual green card route, that might not have such requirements. But it is still difficult and expensive that way (unless you marry an American of course).

Also I'm skeptical that the US is much better for criminal law, or that there aren't extensive cuts to legal aid there. If anything across the board, there is less social and welfare support in the US than in the UK, and any kind of government spending on "aid" tends to get viewed pretty negatively, politically, by a large swathe of the electorate (and by the Republicans). There is a pretty widespread distrust for "big government", which includes basically any form of government spending, which the Republicans tend to side with, to a large extent. The Democrats don't, but they're also rampantly incompetent (see for example recently, despite holding a majority in all branches of the government ensuring they can pass any legislation they choose even if no Republicans vote for it, they actually managed to haggle themselves down on the stimulus package recently passed, and reduced it considerably, for essentially no reason).

Thanks for this, if I went to university, though, it would be as a mature student. Does the US allow mature students?
Original post by EH34
Thanks for this, if I went to university, though, it would be as a mature student. Does the US allow mature students?


What do you mean? The term "mature student" has no meaning outside of undergraduate studies. All postgrad students (unless they started their undergraduate degree younger than 18, which is unusual) will be "mature" students by default.
Original post by artful_lounger
What do you mean? The term "mature student" has no meaning outside of undergraduate studies. All postgrad students (unless they started their undergraduate degree younger than 18, which is unusual) will be "mature" students by default.

Sorry, what I meant was whether my age would affect it (ie - being older as my undergraduate degree I would be completing when I am in my 20s, rather than straight after a levels)
Original post by EH34
Sorry, what I meant was whether my age would affect it (ie - being older as my undergraduate degree I would be completing when I am in my 20s, rather than straight after a levels)


No idea really, generally there are fewer anti-discrimination employment laws in the US so it's possible they could discriminate against you on the basis of age (whereas that is illegal in the UK). However unless you are nearly a pensioner I don't think it's likely to make much difference. Outside of the employment question, I don't think it will affect the visa/green card process.
Original post by artful_lounger
No idea really, generally there are fewer anti-discrimination employment laws in the US so it's possible they could discriminate against you on the basis of age (whereas that is illegal in the UK). However unless you are nearly a pensioner I don't think it's likely to make much difference. Outside of the employment question, I don't think it will affect the visa/green card process.

Thanks, I ultimately want to become a judge preciding over criminal proceedings, and I know that experience as a lawyer is key first, to build up understanding over law. Would you say it's better to do this in the UK or US, only I am unsure which is the better legal system to work with. I have been told that criminal law in the UK is poorly paid
It's not an idiotic obsession and unless you have tried it yourself, you are simply being too pessimistic. There have been plenty of people who live in the US who are foreign by nationality. I never said it was simple, in fact it is probably a difficult process. But I don't believe in quitting or 'giving up'. Nobody gets anywhere by doing that.
(edited 3 years ago)
Original post by EH34
Thanks, I ultimately want to become a judge preciding over criminal proceedings, and I know that experience as a lawyer is key first, to build up understanding over law. Would you say it's better to do this in the UK or US, only I am unsure which is the better legal system to work with. I have been told that criminal law in the UK is poorly paid


I think criminal law is pretty poorly paid in the US as well (also in most Western countries at least). (Most) criminals, victims of criminals, and governments who are prosecuting those criminals, tend to not have tons of money. My impression is the reason things like corporate law, IP law, etc, pay highly is because private sector companies do have more money and are incentivised to spend that money on protecting their interests.

Criminal law isn't an area people go into for the money, except maybe in a long run plan of running for political office after working as or with the district attorney I guess? If they went on to become mayor of a major city, or an MP (or in the US, congressperson or senator) then that can make more money just on the base salary and potentially lead to valuable connections otherwise.
(edited 3 years ago)
Well, I am still young and can build experience. By the way, how do you know that I have no commitment to want to work in the US? If I wasn't committed I wouldn't be researching US Law, political history, constitutional rights (which I have, to give me more understanding of the country). I am still young, and have time to build understanding of how US law differs to UK law. So it's pretty clear that I'm not going to have any experience of working in US Law - not even US educated people will all have that. And a JD (Juris Doctor) is offered to foreign students who wish to gain entry to the US. People take me seriously because I'm being serious (not simply dreaming on some fantasy). This is something I have researched. I do know what I'll have to face (competition, competition and probably more competition, especially from US-educated law graduates)
OP, as unpalatable as it might be for you, I’m afraid the practical difficulties are exactly as Johnny and Artful have described them. I am also still not 100% sure what attracts you to US criminal law above criminal practice in the U.K.? What would your answer to that question be?

You are allowed to be ambitious. But bear in mind that we have one of the oldest, most sophisticated criminal justice systems in the world, on which many other systems are modelled (including the US). What’s boring about that?! And if your ambition is to become a judge, U.K. criminal judges, particularly at appellate level and above, are some of the most academically impressive lawyers on the planet. You have all of that in your back garden, so please don’t be tempted to qualify in the US just because television has convinced you that option more exciting than it really is.
(edited 3 years ago)
OP, have you considered commercial law? If wanting to practise law in America because of the lifestyle you’d probably be better off going into private practise at an American/international firm that’s based in the UK. That way you could get a secondment to work in the states which will ultimately give you stronger ties with the US if you decide you want to move there permanently.

If that’s the route you’d like to go down you’d first have to complete an llb or any other degree for that matter > complete the SQE (currently is GDL & or LPC but would be changed completely by the time you reach that point) > get a training contract at an international/American firm (is really competitive but still doable) > then work your way into a position that would allow you to work at an office located in the states.

Hope that helps. By all means do some extra research in this topic because there’s more resources and support for students looking to go into commercial law than something like criminal.

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