Clamping down on drugs

https://www-thesun-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/16941848/boris-johnson-drugs-crackdown-war/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16387285719583&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thesun.co.uk%2Fnews%2F16941848%2Fboris-johnson-drugs-crackdown-war%2F
This is absolutely the right approach. The increasingly popular idea of decriminalisation benefits middle class casual abusers who couldn't care less about the law (which, by the way, isn't just there to be followed by those who happen to like it, or indeed those who don't think they can get away with it) and similarly couldn't care less about what they are doing facilitates. The gangs they are funding, keeping in business, are the height of evil deliberately targeting vulnerable people and making light use of guns etc.. If I was handing my money over to that I would hang my head in shame. Anybody who is willing to is very worthy of a place in prison.
As for those who take drugs as a result of mental health problems, for example, I think they should be able to get the help they need and some discretion should be used in punishing them based on how able they were to make an informed decision. But by no means should the law be changed for them because at the end of the day it is there to protect and you break it at your own risk.

It’s the dealers who pedal misery and death that should be severely punished. Not necessarily the users. I’m all up for what they did in the Philippines and round up every last dealer and supplier and stick them in prison for life. Let’s not pretend here that the police don’t have suspicions in who the main low level dealers will be.

They already have the lists, it's all in the police database.

I tend to agree with the need for harsh punishments against dealers, I feel that some sort of enforced working in labour gangs would be appropriate. The truth is that the bigger dealers are greedy ********s who don't give a stuff and the lower street level people are either desperate, or just of the view that drug dealing is a better living than working.

The truth is that at the moment, the drug gangs are winning, big areas of London for example feature open dealing in the streets, apparently unmolested.

I tend to agree with the need for harsh punishments against dealers, I feel that some sort of enforced working in labour gangs would be appropriate.

Community Service/Payback has long already been how we sentence many minor - moderate drug offences.

Seems like there's always a steady stream of new recruits nonetheless.

So visible here in inner London that young black men and boys in particular are involved. It would make a lot of sense to make bigger efforts to improve education for that group and take steps to ensure that all school leavers get placed into jobs. The difficulties they face in obtaining regular employment are well known.

thank you for providing a more articulated and reliable source cuz tbh i just didn't get anything out of The Sun's article in the op. written like super trash as always

don't think i disagree with anything you've said above but might i ask which parts of the new government plan do you disagree with? for me it would be casual drug users losing their driving licences or passports (ridiculous ), police using dealers' seized phones to message their clients to direct them to support and discourage use, 'plans to pilot a behaviour change campaign on university campuses to understand what messages discourage drug misuse at an early stage' (whatever that means ).

personally tho don't have a problem with spending money on recovery for addicts and 'delivering treatment and recovery services through rebuilding the workforce, council-led substance misuse services and ensuring support is more integrated to cater for users' physical and mental health needs'. cuz many if not most addicts have spent time in the crank and have little to no support upon their release to help reintegrate themselves back into society, keep stable employment etc so they just keep doing the same things over and over again because it's familiar and no help to get back to 'normal'. at least that's my hope this is part of the government plan but the article hasn't elaborated afaik. did you interpret that part differently?

Criminalisation of users has been proven globally over and over again to be a counter-productive policy. Announcing that you're going to extend it to middle class users might make sense on the level of reducing the mainstay of demand for some dealers, but it won't be enforced - police already can't enforce it against poorer users, let alone the middle classes and the CPS largely won't bother prosecuting casual users already - so even on a resources level this is a nonsense.

The government have done this as a sop to working class anger, but it won't work if it's not enforceable. All that stuff about withdrawing passports and driving licenses has come from the Nudge Unit and might be a good idea if police weren't already stretched to the limits.

Avec pleasure

Its more the direction than anything else, although the continued focus on criminality is a serious bug bear. Whilst the treatment aspects are a breath of fresh air they can only go so far (i know of few addicts who have actually gone clean simply by being frogmarched into a treatment programme, they have to want to). As to the points you noted, especially the passports/dl's, inherently authoritarian in my book. also oddly ineffective (very few users travel abroad for drugs) .

Essentially though, my view is somewhat, as some might say, 'radical' in that i view the decriminalization of all drugs as the only way forward, in line with Portugal. It being abundantly clear that illegality of these does zero good and untold harm to both users and the community. People will always do drugs, the only question is whether help is in place to at least tempt them away from seriously abusing them or whether the stick will still be waived ineffectually at them (as the government has said they will continue to do).

Its definitely a good thing their focusing on reintroducing them to society, i mean, in theory anyway. its completely undermined by the fact most of these people probably developed a worse habit in jail and will still be blighted by a record on release making drug use/dealing inevitable in an alarming number of cases.

To bring my ramble to a close, there are definitely some good aspects to the policy but the broad fundamental problems remain that this just tinkers with the edges of without addressing any of the core problems.
As food for thought, how many people are you aware of who start shooting heroin for kicks as opposed to using it to relieve some form of pain (in every sense) or tedium? I cant say i know of many. Almost every addict i've encountered has ended up on the 'hard' drugs through choices that werent, in any meaningful sense, theirs. Abused children/adults, trying to numb their pain etc. until the law recognises these problems and seeks to deal with them at source then all of these measures are doomed to die an ignoble death. Especially with the contraindicating messages of 'tough on drugs', yet 'healthcentric' .. the two being fairly oxymoronic in my book.

i mean i can't disagree with you and wish i could rep this 100 times

especially the point about how drug habits get worse in jail. the fact of the matter is prison isn't a rehabilitation program and upon release these 'offenders' lack support to get back to 'normal' (altho let's be real here; they're ****ed on so many levels once you have a criminal record and separated from friends/family etc). personally all i would ask for is more support for addicts upon release. this ******** law for casual drug use to me tho seems more like virtual signalling to win back confidence after the Tories ****ed with people's lives during lockdown. jmho and sorry for so many F-bombs.

With all due respect, and i really dont think any is due to this mnedieval approach, youre talking out of your ass.

For a start your main reason for getting all high and mighty seems to be the fuelling of gangs war chests, that is solely caused by their illegality. Nothing else. You are effectively arguing to strengthen the gangs hand here and nothing else. If you would actually care to read a single study on the topic youd know this.

The war on drugs has been a flop for more reasons than 'Politian's small thinking'. Humans are innately attracted to pleasure, drugs provide that. The morals on it are irrelevant, especially as you could buy every single one of these drugs in your local dairy in times gone by. As to safety, guess what happens to drugs when you ban them? Enterprising, free market capitalists look at ways to potentate them to get more bang for their buck. Its a lot more efficient to ship Fent/heroine et al. than a block of opium.

Of course, this ignores the two biggest problems with this failed approach:
1) Users and dealers dont care about the legal status (especially when all the politicians are high as kites, see the other thread on that), users, and especially addicts, will use irrespective of the consequences. The latter, notionally at any rate, having lost the free will to make an informed choice one way or the other. Plus, dealers will always exist when you create a hyper profitable market for them.
2) Simply jailing people in an area where drugs are even more readily available, and they can learn new approaches to dealing etc. is hardly going to solve anything.

Long story short, this idea is moronic as is anyone who supports it.

i mean i can't disagree with you and wish i could rep this 100 times

especially the point about how drug habits get worse in jail. the fact of the matter is prison isn't a rehabilitation program and upon release these 'offenders' lack support to get back to 'normal' (altho let's be real here; they're ****ed on so many levels once you have a criminal record and separated from friends/family etc). personally all i would ask for is more support for addicts upon release. this ******** law for casual drug use to me tho seems more like virtual signalling to win back confidence after the Tories ****ed with people's lives during lockdown. jmho and sorry for so many F-bombs.