Not sure whether to go for Physician's Associate or Children's Nursing
I'm a graduate with a master's and have been working for a pharmaceutical company in a corporate role. However, I have been wanting to pursue a career in healthcare and finally decided to bite the bullet and just go for it.
I was planning on making some last minute applications for BSc Children's Nursing on UCAS as I'll receive a student loan and help with living costs. However, I've also started wondering about the Physician's Associate course which is only 2 years and will give me a higher salary once I qualify. The only issue is I would have to apply for September 2024 as the courses I would be interested in are all full now or have their applications closed for 2023. I have already had a postgraduate loan so would need to self-fund this which will be expensive, and I won't have any help with living costs (luckily I can live with parents).
I'm not sure what to go for. My ideal job would be working as a practice nurse or a Physician Associate in a GP surgery.
Does anyone have any advice or has had to make a similar decision and, if so, which did you go for and why?
I was planning on making some last minute applications for BSc Children's Nursing on UCAS as I'll receive a student loan and help with living costs. However, I've also started wondering about the Physician's Associate course which is only 2 years and will give me a higher salary once I qualify. The only issue is I would have to apply for September 2024 as the courses I would be interested in are all full now or have their applications closed for 2023. I have already had a postgraduate loan so would need to self-fund this which will be expensive, and I won't have any help with living costs (luckily I can live with parents).
I'm not sure what to go for. My ideal job would be working as a practice nurse or a Physician Associate in a GP surgery.
Does anyone have any advice or has had to make a similar decision and, if so, which did you go for and why?
Scroll to see replies
Original post by blossomx
I'm a graduate with a master's and have been working for a pharmaceutical company in a corporate role. However, I have been wanting to pursue a career in healthcare and finally decided to bite the bullet and just go for it.
I was planning on making some last minute applications for BSc Children's Nursing on UCAS as I'll receive a student loan and help with living costs. However, I've also started wondering about the Physician's Associate course which is only 2 years and will give me a higher salary once I qualify. The only issue is I would have to apply for September 2024 as the courses I would be interested in are all full now or have their applications closed for 2023. I have already had a postgraduate loan so would need to self-fund this which will be expensive, and I won't have any help with living costs (luckily I can live with parents).
I'm not sure what to go for. My ideal job would be working as a practice nurse or a Physician Associate in a GP surgery.
Does anyone have any advice or has had to make a similar decision and, if so, which did you go for and why?
I was planning on making some last minute applications for BSc Children's Nursing on UCAS as I'll receive a student loan and help with living costs. However, I've also started wondering about the Physician's Associate course which is only 2 years and will give me a higher salary once I qualify. The only issue is I would have to apply for September 2024 as the courses I would be interested in are all full now or have their applications closed for 2023. I have already had a postgraduate loan so would need to self-fund this which will be expensive, and I won't have any help with living costs (luckily I can live with parents).
I'm not sure what to go for. My ideal job would be working as a practice nurse or a Physician Associate in a GP surgery.
Does anyone have any advice or has had to make a similar decision and, if so, which did you go for and why?
I'd recommend you try and get some work/shadowing experience of both roles in a GP surgery to see which job appeals to you the most. You could also look into level 7 apprenticeships for physician associates.
https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/medical-associate-professions/roles-medical-associate-professions/physician-associate
By delaying your application until next cycle, you will be able to continue earning for a year to help with funding. You might also be eligible for a £5,000 allowance from HHE for studying a physician associate masters:
https://www.hee.nhs.uk/our-work/physician-associates
Original post by taulaqi1
Does HHE give an allowance to students studying PA
You will need to clarify what funding is available with the unis you are thinking of applying to. For example, on Worcester's website it states:
Scholarships, bursaries and loans. The funding arrangement for September 2021 entry are as follows:
Health Education England, has provided a national funding strategy for all Physician Associate courses in England, where students received £5,000 towards tuition fees, split equally across the two years of the course. You will not need to apply for this separately.
You may be eligible for a postgraduate loan for Masters study. It will be at your own discretion whether the loan is used towards fees, maintenance or other costs. For full details visit our postgraduate loans page.
https://www.worcester.ac.uk/courses/physician-associate-msc
In North West England there is an arrangement between HEE and local unis to pay an allowance of up to £2,500 per year to cover travel expenses for placements:
https://www.nwpgmd.nhs.uk/physician_associate
Original post by taulaqi1
Does HHE give an allowance to students studying PA
Yes they do.
I’ve been studying at Plymouth University and you get £2500 in your first year and the other £2500 in your second year of the Physician Associate course
Original post by blossomx
I'm a graduate with a master's and have been working for a pharmaceutical company in a corporate role. However, I have been wanting to pursue a career in healthcare and finally decided to bite the bullet and just go for it.
I was planning on making some last minute applications for BSc Children's Nursing on UCAS as I'll receive a student loan and help with living costs. However, I've also started wondering about the Physician's Associate course which is only 2 years and will give me a higher salary once I qualify. The only issue is I would have to apply for September 2024 as the courses I would be interested in are all full now or have their applications closed for 2023. I have already had a postgraduate loan so would need to self-fund this which will be expensive, and I won't have any help with living costs (luckily I can live with parents).
I'm not sure what to go for. My ideal job would be working as a practice nurse or a Physician Associate in a GP surgery.
Does anyone have any advice or has had to make a similar decision and, if so, which did you go for and why?
I was planning on making some last minute applications for BSc Children's Nursing on UCAS as I'll receive a student loan and help with living costs. However, I've also started wondering about the Physician's Associate course which is only 2 years and will give me a higher salary once I qualify. The only issue is I would have to apply for September 2024 as the courses I would be interested in are all full now or have their applications closed for 2023. I have already had a postgraduate loan so would need to self-fund this which will be expensive, and I won't have any help with living costs (luckily I can live with parents).
I'm not sure what to go for. My ideal job would be working as a practice nurse or a Physician Associate in a GP surgery.
Does anyone have any advice or has had to make a similar decision and, if so, which did you go for and why?
Physician associate! while they are not requiring any entrance exams like the UCAT! PA’s will soon be regulated as announced by the government and the GMC will be the regulator. Once PA’s are regulated this opens doors for progression and the possibility of adding a prescribing course which means you can argue for a higher band and say you should be prescribing at a band 8a.
You have probably made you choice by now, but pick nursing. It's a solid career that will give you the option of career progression into advanced roles if you want that, and the possibility of working in other places in the world.
A PA degree from the UK, on the other hand, is not recognised elsewhere and, quite frankly, puts you in a very dangerous position of being expected to do the role of a doctor without the adequate training - I'm not sure that the better salary and better hours (for now) are worth it.
A PA degree from the UK, on the other hand, is not recognised elsewhere and, quite frankly, puts you in a very dangerous position of being expected to do the role of a doctor without the adequate training - I'm not sure that the better salary and better hours (for now) are worth it.
Original post by girl_in_black
You have probably made you choice by now, but pick nursing. It's a solid career that will give you the option of career progression into advanced roles if you want that, and the possibility of working in other places in the world.
A PA degree from the UK, on the other hand, is not recognised elsewhere and, quite frankly, puts you in a very dangerous position of being expected to do the role of a doctor without the adequate training - I'm not sure that the better salary and better hours (for now) are worth it.
A PA degree from the UK, on the other hand, is not recognised elsewhere and, quite frankly, puts you in a very dangerous position of being expected to do the role of a doctor without the adequate training - I'm not sure that the better salary and better hours (for now) are worth it.
Which is why it’s very important to practise within your scope and that is something that is drilled in the FPA, PA are actually recognised in New Zealand often with progression to Australia, something quite newish but only time will tell. I agree that nursing has its progression but just depends how long you’re willing to wait for it, PA puts you at a band 7 after 2 years (probably will go up as you train and might even reclassify once regulated), theres some nurses who wait years only for a band 6.
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by Jalcaraz
Which is why it’s very important to practise within your scope and that is something that is drilled in the FPA, PA are actually recognised in New Zealand often with progression to Australia, something quite newish but only time will tell. I agree that nursing has its progression but just depends how long you’re willing to wait for it, PA puts you at a band 7 after 2 years (probably will go up as you train and might even reclassify once regulated), theres some nurses who wait years only for a band 6.
It can be difficult to practice within your scope when you don't know what you don't know
Original post by girl_in_black
It can be difficult to practice within your scope when you don't know what you don't know
PAs ae not Doctors, nor do they pretend or want to be - otherwise they would have gone to med school! They recieve ongoing training when qualified and can only do things they are competent in.
Not sure why you feel like this about PAs? Any health care worker has a role to play and are all important.
Original post by Jotenno
You would be surprised how intense a PA MSc is and how much is learnt over the 2 years.
PAs ae not Doctors, nor do they pretend or want to be - otherwise they would have gone to med school! They recieve ongoing training when qualified and can only do things they are competent in.
Not sure why you feel like this about PAs? Any health care worker has a role to play and are all important.
PAs ae not Doctors, nor do they pretend or want to be - otherwise they would have gone to med school! They recieve ongoing training when qualified and can only do things they are competent in.
Not sure why you feel like this about PAs? Any health care worker has a role to play and are all important.
Original post by black tea
A PA degree is not more intense than a medical degree, sorry. Their job and more can be done by a doctor. I could understand if PAs were cheaper than doctors for the government, but they are not, so the role simply does not make sense.
PA’s are cheaper than doctors. They start on band 7, it is true, which may be slightly higher than doctors at the very start. But they and doctors are on different scales and doctors soon overtake them
Original post by Anopheles
PA’s are cheaper than doctors. They start on band 7, it is true, which may be slightly higher than doctors at the very start. But they and doctors are on different scales and doctors soon overtake them
Doctors do not overtake for quite a few years after. I do not have the data myself, but I have come across other people comparing how much it costs to pay a PA and a junior doctor year on year and it takes close to 10 years for a PA to become cheaper.
Original post by black tea
Doctors do not overtake for quite a few years after. I do not have the data myself, but I have come across other people comparing how much it costs to pay a PA and a junior doctor year on year and it takes close to 10 years for a PA to become cheaper.
https://www.bma.org.uk/pay-and-contracts/pay/junior-doctors-pay-scales/pay-scales-for-junior-doctors-in-england
Source: BMA
https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/working-health/working-nhs/nhs-pay-and-benefits/agenda-change-pay-rates
This information shows that a doctor will overtake a starting PA on band 7 by the time they have done their F1 and F2 years, in otherwords 2 years after leaving medical school, in other owrds before they even become a junior doctor
Original post by Anopheles
https://www.bma.org.uk/pay-and-contracts/pay/junior-doctors-pay-scales/pay-scales-for-junior-doctors-in-england
Source: BMA
https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/working-health/working-nhs/nhs-pay-and-benefits/agenda-change-pay-rates
This information shows that a doctor will overtake a starting PA on band 7 by the time they have done their F1 and F2 years, in otherwords 2 years after leaving medical school, in other owrds before they even become a junior doctor
Source: BMA
https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/working-health/working-nhs/nhs-pay-and-benefits/agenda-change-pay-rates
This information shows that a doctor will overtake a starting PA on band 7 by the time they have done their F1 and F2 years, in otherwords 2 years after leaving medical school, in other owrds before they even become a junior doctor
Fair, my previous figure was wrong. However, based on the sources you have provided, a PA will earn more per year than a doctor until they are 5 years into their career:
PA:
Year 1 (<2 years’ experience)- 43,742
Year 2 (<2 years' experience) - 43,742
Year 3 (2-5 years) - 45,996
Year 4 (2-5 years)- 45,996
Year 5 (2-5 years) - 45,996
Dr:
Year 1 (FY1) - 32,398
Year 2 (FY2) - 37,303
Year 3 (CT1/ST2) 43,923
Year 4 (CT2/ST2) - 43,923
Year 5 (CT3/ST3) - 55,329
However, cumulatively, after 5 years, a PA will have earned 225,472 and a doctor will have earned 212,876 so a PA is still working out as more expensive at this stage.
Lets go forward a year:
PA:
Year 6 (5+ years) - 50,056
Dr:
Year 6 (ST4) - 55,329
Cumulatively, that’s 275,528 (PA) vs 268,205 (Dr)…
So let’s keep going:
PA:
Year 7 (5+ years) - 50,056
Dr:
Year 7 (ST5) - 55,329
Cumulatively, that’s 325,584 (PA) vs 323,534 (doctor).
Into 8 years qualified now:
PA:
Year 8 (5+ years) - 50,056
Dr:
Year 8 (ST6) - 63,125
Cumulatively, that’s 375,640 (PA) vs 386,686 (doctor). Finally, at 8 years into their career (and very close to being a consultant), a doctor has overtaken in earnings.
Now, a doctor at ST3+ level will be a registrar, which is the grade below a consultant... A registrar will be running a department in the absence of consultant; a PA can't even prescribe - pretty big difference in responsibility, no?
I stand by my previous point that PAs are not cheaper than doctors.
And FY1 and FY2s are junior doctors, not sure why you think otherwise?
(edited 7 months ago)
Original post by black tea
Fair, my previous figure was wrong. However, based on the sources you have provided, a PA will earn more per year than a doctor until they are 5 years into their career:
PA:
Year 1 (<2 years’ experience)- 43,742
Year 2 (<2 years' experience) - 43,742
Year 3 (2-5 years) - 45,996
Year 4 (2-5 years)- 45,996
Year 5 (2-5 years) - 45,996
Dr:
Year 1 (FY1) - 32,398
Year 2 (FY2) - 37,303
Year 3 (CT1/ST2) 43,923
Year 4 (CT2/ST2) - 43,923
Year 5 (CT3/ST3) - 55,329
However, cumulatively, after 5 years, a PA will have earned 225,472 and a doctor will have earned 212,876 so a PA is still working out as more expensive at this stage.
Lets go forward a year:
PA:
Year 6 (5+ years) - 50,056
Dr:
Year 6 (ST4) - 55,329
Cumulatively, that’s 275,528 (PA) vs 268,205 (Dr)…
So let’s keep going:
PA:
Year 7 (5+ years) - 50,056
Dr:
Year 7 (ST5) - 55,329
Cumulatively, that’s 325,584 (PA) vs 323,534 (doctor).
Into 8 years qualified now:
PA:
Year 8 (5+ years) - 50,056
Dr:
Year 8 (ST6) - 63,125
Cumulatively, that’s 375,640 (PA) vs 386,686 (doctor). Finally, at 8 years into their career (and very close to being a consultant), a doctor has overtaken in earnings.
Now, a doctor at ST3+ level will be a registrar, which is the grade below a consultant... A registrar will be running a department in the absence of consultant; a PA can't even prescribe - pretty big difference in responsibility, no?
I stand by my previous point that PAs are not cheaper than doctors.
And FY1 and FY2s are junior doctors, not sure why you think otherwise?
PA:
Year 1 (<2 years’ experience)- 43,742
Year 2 (<2 years' experience) - 43,742
Year 3 (2-5 years) - 45,996
Year 4 (2-5 years)- 45,996
Year 5 (2-5 years) - 45,996
Dr:
Year 1 (FY1) - 32,398
Year 2 (FY2) - 37,303
Year 3 (CT1/ST2) 43,923
Year 4 (CT2/ST2) - 43,923
Year 5 (CT3/ST3) - 55,329
However, cumulatively, after 5 years, a PA will have earned 225,472 and a doctor will have earned 212,876 so a PA is still working out as more expensive at this stage.
Lets go forward a year:
PA:
Year 6 (5+ years) - 50,056
Dr:
Year 6 (ST4) - 55,329
Cumulatively, that’s 275,528 (PA) vs 268,205 (Dr)…
So let’s keep going:
PA:
Year 7 (5+ years) - 50,056
Dr:
Year 7 (ST5) - 55,329
Cumulatively, that’s 325,584 (PA) vs 323,534 (doctor).
Into 8 years qualified now:
PA:
Year 8 (5+ years) - 50,056
Dr:
Year 8 (ST6) - 63,125
Cumulatively, that’s 375,640 (PA) vs 386,686 (doctor). Finally, at 8 years into their career (and very close to being a consultant), a doctor has overtaken in earnings.
Now, a doctor at ST3+ level will be a registrar, which is the grade below a consultant... A registrar will be running a department in the absence of consultant; a PA can't even prescribe - pretty big difference in responsibility, no?
I stand by my previous point that PAs are not cheaper than doctors.
And FY1 and FY2s are junior doctors, not sure why you think otherwise?
My mistake re definition of JD. However it is still true that after their F1 and F2 years they will start earning more than PA's. I think we have both made some correct maths here, and I think we should call it quits as we are digresssing from the original person's post!
Thanks
Original post by Anopheles
My mistake re definition of JD. However it is still true that after their F1 and F2 years they will start earning more than PA's. I think we have both made some correct maths here, and I think we should call it quits as we are digresssing from the original person's post!
Thanks
Thanks
The literal sources you have linked to say otherwise...
Original post by Jalcaraz
Physician associate! while they are not requiring any entrance exams like the UCAT! PA’s will soon be regulated as announced by the government and the GMC will be the regulator. Once PA’s are regulated this opens doors for progression and the possibility of adding a prescribing course which means you can argue for a higher band and say you should be prescribing at a band 8a.
Hopefully this doesn’t happen as it would be very unsafe for everyone and most unsafe for patients. Please go to med school.
Original post by Anopheles
https://www.bma.org.uk/pay-and-contracts/pay/junior-doctors-pay-scales/pay-scales-for-junior-doctors-in-england
Source: BMA
https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/working-health/working-nhs/nhs-pay-and-benefits/agenda-change-pay-rates
This information shows that a doctor will overtake a starting PA on band 7 by the time they have done their F1 and F2 years, in otherwords 2 years after leaving medical school, in other owrds before they even become a junior doctor
Source: BMA
https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/working-health/working-nhs/nhs-pay-and-benefits/agenda-change-pay-rates
This information shows that a doctor will overtake a starting PA on band 7 by the time they have done their F1 and F2 years, in otherwords 2 years after leaving medical school, in other owrds before they even become a junior doctor
Original post by Toiletbrush
F1s and F2s are junior doctors and much more qualified than PAs.
They are more qualified no one ever disputed this. They should also have higher pay, but this does not mean PAs are worth less than their current pay, just that junior doctors should be paid more!
Wish all this hate for PAs would just stop. It's very unprofessional.
Quick Reply
Related discussions
- Biology or nursing
- MSc Nursing and Physician Associate Studies
- Adult or Child Nursing?
- Can a Child/Paediatric Nurse becomes a Physician Associate?
- Question for any healthcare professional
- physician associate career path
- courses
- Physician Associate worth it?
- Physician's Associate
- Torn about the best nursing training route - HELP!
- Physician associate specialist salary
- Things to do after BTEC Level 3 Health and Social Care
- Careers with a degree in anatomy, developmental human biology
- Getting my NMC Pin with previous conviction
- Interested in MSc Physician Associate Studies
- Part time degree and job queries in the NHS
- physician associate
- im really worried
- University of Bradford Physician associate funding
- Official Physicians Associate Applicants Thread 2025
Latest
Trending
Last reply 1 month ago
Is Speech and Language Therapy or Child Nursing a more difficult career?Healthcare
2
12
Last reply 1 month ago
I hate chemistry but I want to do radiography. Can I still get into a radiography?Healthcare
10
20
