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    So I'm not exactly a hardcore feminist, but I was working my way through a book on literary theory and was quite interested in it as a concept. I'm halfway through A Room with a View now; can anyone recommend anything else?
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    -The Myth of Male Power: Why Men Are the Disposable Sex; Warren Farrell, Simon & Schuster, New York, 1993
    -Who Stole Feminism?: How Women Have Betrayed Women; Christina Hoff Sommers
    -A Man's World: How Real Is Male Privilege - And How High Is Its Price?; Ellis Cose, Harper Collins, New York, 1995


    Feminism is total trash. It promotes inequality rather than equality, and its only aim is to put women in front of men, which it is doing in many respects.
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    Don't forget The Second Sex by Simone de Beauvoir, which is a treatise of enough importance to warrant reading by not only those interested in gender theory, but anyone politically or culturally minded.

    Also, feminism is the quest for manifesting the inate equal worth of all people in the political and economical world, and that is definately a force of good. Do you believe that men and women should have equal pay for equal work? Do you believe that job opportunities should be given on the basis of character, accomplishment and ability rather than on sex? If you do, then you're a feminist.
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    The only thing I have a real.. not issue, exactly; that's the wrong word - more.. I don't know, qualm about is the idea that because women have been 'oppressed' for so long, they deserve distinct privileges because it is harder for them to succeed in a patriarchal society that has developed as a result of masculine power.
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    (Original post by Lilio Candidior)
    the innate* equal worth of all people in the political and economical world
    What makes you so sure of this as a fact? Just curious.
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    (Original post by Lilio Candidior)
    Don't forget The Second Sex by Simone de Beauvoir, which is a treatise of enough importance to warrant reading by not only those interested in gender theory, but anyone politically or culturally minded.

    Also, feminism is the quest for manifesting the inate equal worth of all people in the political and economical world, and that is definitely a force of good. Do you believe that men and women should have equal pay for equal work? Do you believe that job opportunities should be given on the basis of character, accomplishment and ability rather than on sex? If you do, then you're a feminist.
    If you believe in all those things you listed you are egalitarian. Feminism, as the name suggests, is all about putting women first. I think the 'fem' part gives it away a tad... Feminism has done nothing for men, whatsoever.
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    (Original post by RaisinPilot)
    The only thing I have a real.. not issue, exactly; that's the wrong word - more.. I don't know, qualm about is the idea that because women have been 'oppressed' for so long, they deserve distinct privileges because it is harder for them to succeed in a patriarchal society that has developed as a result of masculine power.
    Current university figures show the exact opposite of it being harder to succeed. Women currently make up 55-60% of the university population, but I don't see the government doing anything to address this. However there is a shortage of women in science, so as you can guess the government is doing something to address the issue. Up until the age of 30 women also earn more than men, and further to this get jobs easier, it's only at 30 when female professionals begin having children that their career takes a slight hit. This is because feminism has created a situation in which female emancipation comes from birth control. Rather than emancipate women it has made them choose between a career or a child, and when your natural biology is screaming at you to have a child at 30 this is hard to ignore. Instead of being so birth control/abortion focused feminism should have been used to push for more help for women who work, such as legislation to make employers provide child care etc.

    I believe we are now in a time when male and female inequalities are in fact equal. This doesn't mean we should stop working on ironing them out. It means feminism should be done away with, because it is picking sides that creates inequalities, and instead we should all move towards being more egalitarian.
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    Feminism has done nothing for men? Interesting. Seeing as the 'emancipation' of women in the UK has left girls begging for male attention as it is now acceptable for a woman to chase a man rather than the other way round, so that men get easy sex and don't have to commit. So I'd say, in Britain anyway, feminism has actually worked against women in some respects. There is no pressure in society to get married anymore, which means that women who were perhaps searching for that commitment and security cannot rely on it anymore, and need to work, when maybe they would have been better suited to being a mother at home. The effects of women's liberation aren't all that positive for women, and their sexual 'emancipation' is in the long run better for men.
    OP, I recommend 'Women As Lovers' by Elfriede Jelinek. Take it as an allegory.
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    Women often dont seem to see many of the huge advantages they have, especially in education and the work place. The whole education system is based around how girls (typically) like learning, revisiting the same topics over and over just slightly advancing them. Like-wise teacher attitudes towards girls are completely different to those of boys and has been stated girls have advantages getting into science degrees in university (my sister got an offer 3 grades below (I mean like BBB instead of AAA etc) for university despite the fact she really isnt anything spectacular).

    That said feminists seem intent on female domination rather than equality.
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    (Original post by belle_xx)
    Feminism has done nothing for men? Interesting. Seeing as the 'emancipation' of women in the UK has left girls begging for male attention as it is now acceptable for a woman to chase a man rather than the other way round, so that men get easy sex and don't have to commit. So I'd say, in Britain anyway, feminism has actually worked against women in some respects. There is no pressure in society to get married anymore, which means that women who were perhaps searching for that commitment and security cannot rely on it anymore, and need to work, when maybe they would have been better suited to being a mother at home. The effects of women's liberation aren't all that positive for women, and their sexual 'emancipation' is in the long run better for men.
    OP, I recommend 'Women As Lovers' by Elfriede Jelinek. Take it as an allegory.
    Women were putting out before marriage a long time before feminism, that's for sure. Most of us all have some sort of ******* in our blood lines. I don't think the 'emancipation' of women has benefited men at all. I especially don't think it has benefited children in the slightest. You say that feminism has made it harder to get married, I say it has made it easier to get divorced. If women wanted to be in these committed relationships so much they wouldn't initiate well over half of all divorce proceedings, would they?
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    (Original post by mipegg)
    Women often dont seem to see many of the huge advantages they have, especially in education and the work place. The whole education system is based around how girls (typically) like learning, revisiting the same topics over and over just slightly advancing them. Like-wise teacher attitudes towards girls are completely different to those of boys and has been stated girls have advantages getting into science degrees in university (my sister got an offer 3 grades below (I mean like BBB instead of AAA etc) for university despite the fact she really isnt anything spectacular).

    That said feminists seem intent on female domination rather than equality.
    This post is very true. A girl at York I know through a friend is in the fortunate position of being half chinese, so she could put minority and female on all her applications. She was told by JP Morgan that all she had to do was turn upto the interview and not be a psycho.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    This post is very true. A girl at York I know through a friend is in the fortunate position of being half chinese, so she could put minority and female on all her applications. She was told by JP Morgan that all she had to do was turn upto the interview and not be a psycho.
    Yea, Its also interesting to note that any time you mention male equality people stare at you like your a nazi or something. That or just not taken seriously.

    Imma leave this thread now before I get a huge steaming pile of estrogen thrown at me...
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    (Original post by mipegg)
    Yea, Its also interesting to note that any time you mention male equality people stare at you like your a nazi or something. That or just not taken seriously.

    Imma leave this thread now before I get a huge steaming pile of estrogen thrown at me...
    Tell me about it mate. They are like 'but but, that goes against the 16 years of indoctrination in school about how women are down trodden.' Despite the fact they themselves have never faced anything but positive discrimination throughout their life. Then again, liberal douche bags will always jump to the aid of anyone but the white male, regardless of if there are facts and figures to back them up. Speaking of such people, i'm surprised Oswy hasn't given us his worthless 2 cents.
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    (Original post by mipegg)
    ...
    How likely is a girl to get a lower-than-standard offer for university, and compared to a boy? Do you know that? Does your little anecdote give any indication of that whatsoever?

    Are there no boys in existence who have ever received such a lower than standard offer? You've just got one example of a girl getting one, and absolutely no knowledge of whether boys get them too.

    Do you have any idea why your sister received such an offer or did you just assume it was because she was a girl? Just because you think she's "nothing special" doesn't mean the admissions tutors should too.

    How moronic.

    As for how girls "typically" like learning, what the ****? That's not how girls like learning, that's how idiots like learning.
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    (Original post by littleshambles)
    How likely is a girl to get a lower-than-standard offer for university, and compared to a boy? Do you know that? Does your little anecdote give any indication of that whatsoever?

    Are there no boys in existence who have ever received such a lower than standard offer? You've just got one example of a girl getting one, and absolutely no knowledge of whether boys get them too.

    Do you have any idea why your sister received such an offer or did you just assume it was because she was a girl? Just because you think she's "nothing special" doesn't mean the admissions tutors should too.

    How moronic.

    As for how girls "typically" like learning, what the ****? That's not how girls like learning, that's how idiots like learning.
    Yes, I know personally 5 or 6 and through friends about 20 total girls who have gotten lower offers than entry requirements for science yet only 2 boys.

    As for the 'nothing special' part what I mean is she doesnt have very good GCSEs, nor any sport, work experience, volunteering, extra curricular stuff. She has nothing to make her stand out from anyone else with average grades. Nor did she have an interview.

    Iv always been told by teachers and such that girls tend to prefer a cyclical education model. Which is what we currently have in schools
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Women were putting out before marriage a long time before feminism, that's for sure. Most of us all have some sort of ******* in our blood lines. I don't think the 'emancipation' of women has benefited men at all. I especially don't think it has benefited children in the slightest. You say that feminism has made it harder to get married, I say it has made it easier to get divorced. If women wanted to be in these committed relationships so much they wouldn't initiate well over half of all divorce proceedings, would they?
    Pathetic argument. Just because women initiate more divorces doesn't mean they don't want to be in a committed relationship; just means they don't want to be in a crap relationship.

    Anti-feminists never fail to astound me. I am yet to meet a reasonable one, seriously. belle_xx not exactly flying the flag for reason herself particularly but there you are (working class women have always had to work, even after having had children, and that's not even starting on the fact that there are still stay at home parents, of whom women make up the vast majority).
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    If you believe in all those things you listed you are egalitarian. Feminism, as the name suggests, is all about putting women first. I think the 'fem' part gives it away a tad... Feminism has done nothing for men, whatsoever.
    That is because women are, and still is, a lesser sex in the very terms which I mentioned, salary earnings and job opportunities. Men has never needed any political movement for their equality, since they have been part of what has been seen (and still is seen) as a superior sex. Feminism is the political movement of giving women the rights thy deserve rather than men, because men has had the monopoly on those rights throughout history. I'm personally fine with calling it egalitarianism, but that is ignoring the actual situations, and in my opinion belittling the intense struggle for equal rights by suffragettes and other rightfully disatisfied persons. That tradition of working towards equal treatment for those who are discriminated against should not be ignored.
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    (Original post by littleshambles)
    Pathetic argument. Just because women initiate more divorces doesn't mean they don't want to be in a committed relationship; just means they don't want to be in a crap relationship.

    Anti-feminists never fail to astound me. I am yet to meet a reasonable one, seriously. belle_xx not exactly flying the flag for reason herself particularly but there you are (working class women have always had to work, even after having had children).
    And you call that a counter argument do you? She can't claim that feminism has stopped men chasing women, and so they have to chase now, because men still chase and always wil.

    Feminism is garbage. How can you promote equality through picking a side? It creates more inequality. How is it unreasonable that I think feminism has more than served it's purpose, if feminism was ever designed to promote female equality to the point of a man and not beyond it that is.
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    (Original post by Reaver)
    What makes you so sure of this as a fact? Just curious.
    Because I'm a Christian, and therefore I believe that all persons are of equal integrity and value, not due to their actions but of their very being as daughters and sons of God, and therefore deserve to be treated with respect void of prejudice and discrimination.
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    (Original post by Lilio Candidior)
    That is because women are, and still is, a lesser sex in the very terms which I mentioned, salary earnings and job opportunities. Men has never needed any political movement for their equality, since they have been part of what has been seen (and still is seen) as a superior sex. Feminism is the political movement of giving women the rights thy deserve rather than men, because men has had the monopoly on those rights throughout history. I'm personally fine with calling it egalitarianism, but that is ignoring the actual situations, and in my opinion belittling the intense struggle for equal rights by suffragettes and other rightfully disatisfied persons. That tradition of working towards equal treatment for those who are discriminated against should not be ignored.
    Incase you are interested, the only study into the topic of why there is a pay gap concluded that if women worked the same hours as men, travelled as much, worked in the same danger, and didn't have children, they would in fact be paid 127% of a man. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_..._Men_Earn_More

    Further to this over half the jobs in the city are taken by women. Most scientific thought on the topic as to why women jack in their careers to care for children indicates that a chemical known as 'PEA' is released in their brain when they have and nurture their children. PEA is thought to be as addictive as heroin. PEA is not released in men and this is why they are less likely to want to stay at home and look after the children, also if it interests you, it is why they are less likely to enjoy a hug as much as a woman, or a bar of chocolate.

    There are hundreds of different ways in which men are now discriminated against, but their voices aren't heard because feminists are still rabbling on about something that was over a long time ago. Here is a short list of the problems faced by men:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculi...ulist_concerns
 
 
 
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