The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV

Actually, I see an entirely separate irony that you apparently do not.

You do not seem to be aware that Zionism =/= Judaism.

I am aware of 'blood libel', and also of 'metzitzah' which coincides closely with it.

I am also aware of condemnation of Zionism increasingly being mistaken, even deliberately at times, for condemnation of Judaism, and anti-Semitism wrongly cited.

It beggars belief that you genuinely entertain the idea that I was appealing to that notion when I referred to the current bloodbath Israel is perpetrating in Gaza, and also that you honestly think that that notion has 'seeped into the subconscious of people'. It can only be a singularly deluded person who would give that latter idea any semblance of serious consideration.
I am not fazed by your diabolical and absurd claim that I have appealed an age-old anti-Semitic notion insidiously or unconsciously. Israel is committing bloody atrocities in Gaza, and I will not downplay that by being careful not to refer to the blood that is being shed daily simply to appease any whoever who happens to see something in it that rests on illogical and unreasonable assumptions.

You were not a contemporary with those times, so you would do well to cite historical evidence for the nonsensical,.

The state should have not been created in the first place, it should have remained a one state with equal rights of all citizens regardless of faith and/or heritage.

Please don't patronise me, the whole "calm down, dear" **** didn't work for Cameron and it certainly doesn't work for you.
Secondly, both children in Malaysian plane and children dying in Syria were not forgotten or passed over as "collateral damage". Their death was rightfully called a massive tragedy which it is. Both Syrian government and ISIS militants and pro- Russian rebels in Ukraine, suspected of shooting down the plane were condemned by media, senior Western politicians and people all over social media.

- collective punishment and bombardment of Palestinians, the disproportionate retribution against them by IDF,

There's no point in me trying to prove it to you now because you wouldn't believe me. If you take any notice of international conflicts though, and if you follow articles/blogs/forum posts surrounding these wars, then all I ask is that you pay close attention to the language that is used to describe the Israel-Palestine conflict and then compare it to any other conflict involving the mass loss of civilian life (e.g. Iraq invasion, Afghanistan invasion, Sunni-Shia violence, Syrian civil war, Russia-Chechnya, Russia-Georgia, etc). You will find that phrases like "bloodthirsty" and "bloodletting" will recur much more often for Israel-Palestine than they do in the other conflicts involving similar or higher numbers of civilian casualties. This is of course no coincidence. The subtleties of language betray the author's feelings (conscious or subconscious).

Just something to keep in mind...

Please don't patronise me, the whole "calm down, dear" **** didn't work for Cameron and it certainly doesn't work for you.
Secondly, both children in Malaysian plane and children dying in Syria were not forgotten or passed over as "collateral damage". Their death was rightfully called a massive tragedy which it is. Both Syrian government and ISIS militants and pro- Russian rebels in Ukraine, suspected of shooting down the plane were condemned by media, senior Western politicians and people all over social media.
But this thread is specifically about Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and if don't see how your examples are anything but a distraction from the actual point being discussed- collective punishment and bombardment of Palestinians, the disproportionate retribution against them by IDF, heavy losses of life, bombing of beaches, hospitals, schools. Yes, children die in the conflict, but those who target children and kill them indiscriminately should not be applauded and defended.
As to your third point, are you ****ing kidding me? The Arab conquests happened centuries ago, would you also complain about Crusades, about Roman conquests of Britain, about European colonisation of both Americas and Australia?
The issue of Palestine and Israel is far more recent and ongoing, which is why it's discussed here. Arab conquests from times gone by belong in the history books, not were the Arabs only nation to have undertaken conquests. We are talking about modern days, when Russian annexation of Crimea is called a crime and Russia is sanctioned and condemned by the Western media all over, and yet Israeli occupation of West Bank and blockade and bombardment of Gaza is aided by the same people.

In response to V2 rockets from Germany, the British fire bombed whole German cities killing tens of thousands of civilians.

When Palestinian Arabs have been living there already for centuries, they have just as much claim to the land. .

I've read through quite a few of your posts on this thread:
Please stop misusing "islamic/Islamist", as Islam is represented by a large variety of nations/ethnicities, as well as holding broadly different views. .

One group of Muslims cannot speak for all, and I'll kindly suggest that you keep your posts focused on the topic of the thread and do not deviate to other topics in the hope of gaining interest on them, this is not the thread for them. .

The Palestinians would have no trouble accepting a two state solution at them moment as they democratically elected the Palestinian Authority which seeks to recognise Israel under the 1967 borders, calling for a two-state solution and an end to building settlement.

You are excellent evidence that Zionism is flourishing; its sole aim, currently, is to wipe out any sign of Palestinian life, culture, heritage and history.

x

I only go half way through before giving up continuing, it seems you think that extremists are reflective of all member of a particular group, in which case, how can anybody follow any ideology?

no i your level of understanding is poor - i explained that islamists have ultimate authority on political matters in the islamic world, because they apply islamic principles to political matters ie 'that levant should be an islamic zone and cannot be governed by jews'. if you claim to be a muslim but disagree with that principle then you would have others muslims questioning your loyalty to your faith. i know this because i have seen it. i doubt you have any idea what islamist doctrine is.

Their culture, heritage and history is Arab. There is no 'palestinain' history - hence why nothing exists that is 'palestinain'. No artefacts like coins or clay pots, no ancient ruins, no kings or previous leaders.

Arafat was their first leader. He was Egyptian.

Not much of a rich history when your first leader appears in the 60's and is Egyptian.

Israel is one of the most archaeologically excavated lands in the world. There are international dig teams working round the clock.

To date, not a single item relating to a 'palestinian' history has been found.

Judea and Samaria (west bank) are full of Jewish history. Every inch of land is covered with Jewish artefacts and ruins. Not to mentions tombs.

The 'palestinians' of course have been doing their utmost to destroy them


Here they are destroying Joseph's tomb after Israel agreed to let 'palestinain' police guard it.

Oh, they also gunned down the Rabbi who used to look after the tomb.

Nice people these 'palestinians' real peaceful.

What the actual **** "Arabia"? Some sort of an enclosed zone where Arabs are allowed to live? Anywhere else they have no claim to, like for instance, Egypt, which is geographically in North Africa, and yet is home to many Arabs. I can only assume you're trolling.

I agree, but surely the same principle applies to the Jews? I.e. the Jews are allowed to live in Israel.

Yes, you're right. I'm a 'NOW' person, who always had a little bit more sympathy towards Palestine because I can ethnically relate to them more. The environment I've been around has sculpted my viewpoint.

In some ways I admire Israel; the technology, advancement and democracy that you have mentioned. But, the atrocities committed by them, towards Palestinians indigenous to the land, make those aspects of the country easy to overlook - like anything good.

I don't like how Jews, however, not indigenous to the land make a sudden holy claim for it, and use this as a righteous excuse to move others off it. Yes, Palestine has been home to many indigenous Jews - and they completely deserve to remain in their homeland, much like any Arab who has settled there previously. But, these people shouldn't face a risk of losing their homes and being displaced for recent migrants, essentially. Faith is a non-issue here; although the likes of Islamists and Orthodox Extremist views challenge that. Today, Israel enjoys being an increasingly secular nation, so I dislike its continual selective reference to biblical text as a rite of passage (some Israelis do this, nothing official - that I know of).

Hamas lost most its Iranian support when Hamas had supported the mainly Sunni uprisers in Syria, who were against the Shia Al-Asaad family. Yes, I don't like politics and religion together, and here it is in action. Irani proxy? At this stage, I doubt it. Although I know previous Iranian support for anything Palestinian has been nothing-but-fervent. Anything to help the victims of the enemy of the state, right? I still think Hamas are launching the rockets for attention, as they can't do any serious damage with them. The attention comes from the Israeli response, like you said. So, it is in the hands of Israel to decide how much of the spotlight Gaza get.

Culture, any collaboration, normal lives and more are put on halt when war continues. The two simply need to stop and sort things out. I'm sure that's something we can both agree on.

Again, appreciate the responses and the healthy rebuttal you have provided me. I have certainly come from our discussion the wiser. Take care.

i was actually talking to you, but i accpet that you like many on here have a miniscule amount of knowledge of history, the background to this issue and, essentially the bigger picture.

No not if the Palestinians still hold the documents and deeds to the land and property the filthy zionists are squatting on, then no, which means that over 60% of the Jews need to leave and return the stolen land to the rights owners or their descendants. The rights of return is non negotiable for its a rights not a God damn favour which the jew can bestow.

Does that mean that the Jews have a right to go over to Libya, Iraq and Germany and "re-gain" their land?

Or does it mean that the Germans have a right to go over to Poland and reclaim land there?

I agree, but surely the same principle applies to the Jews? I.e. the Jews are allowed to live in Israel.

If Jews have the documentation or other evidence to prove it, then in one word Yes, but is it for the Palestinians to guarantee that, no. In fact why Germany didn't have land confiscated post WW2 to be given to Jews I will never understand.]]I think you are getting confused with state and private land.

Well, there is a clear difference between Jews being allowed to live Israel and illegal settlements that extends beyond the borders of Israel according to UN. Is Israel actively trying to reach a consensus with Palestinians?

I am talking about the forced deportation of millions of Germans out of Poland after WW2, and the pogroms against Jews in North Africa around the same time.

After 70 years, title deeds expire. It is best to move on and look to the future, not the distant past. Build a vibrant, prosperous and free country in Palestine, to live in peace alongside Israel.