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Why Can't the Government Create Money?

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Reply 220

CoolCavy

Volunteer Team

Original post by Quady

How is inflation not bad for savers and investors? :s-smilie:

Inflation hits their return.

Its good for borrowers not savers.

ik i said that :colonhash:

Original post by CoolCavy

true, it isn't bad for savers and investors but for the average person the excess printing of money would be a problem :s-smilie:

the key word being isn't :h:

Reply 221

Quady

Original post by CoolCavy

ik i said that :colonhash:

the key word being isn't :h:

It is bad for savers... :colonhash:

quady

How is inflation not bad for savers and investors?

Inflation hits their return.

Its good for borrowers not savers.

The key words being 'not bad' :u:

Reply 222

Polymath0

Original post by BigItch

I have as much rights as you so I will tell you politely to start with if you don't like what i post you know where to go

It's not just that I don't like what you post; it's that you refuse to engage with any argument made against your position and violate the conduct stipulated at the start of the thread by exhibiting intellectual laziness and uncritically posting empty one-liners with a mix of insults. Given that this is my thread, I think it's reasonable that you should respect my desire to have a far more rigorous discussion. Your contribution thus far has been inadequate and unhelpful I'm afraid.

Open your own thread if you won't take seriously this one.

Reply 223

CoolCavy

Volunteer Team

Original post by Quady

It is bad for savers... :colonhash:

The key words being 'not bad' :u:

oh i do apologise i wa the one who misread it, i'm sorry :colondollar:

i thought it was good for savers tho bc what they invested gets extra depending on the inflation and the higher the inflation the more they recieve :s-smilie:

Reply 224

Polymath0

Original post by CoolCavy

because of this:

printing more money = inflation = money devalues = more money printed = inflation etc

I guess I will have to continue repeating myself multiple times in order to counter the same worn out argument by different members. I only wish that new readers would bother to find out whether or not their assumptions has been dealt with already in order to move on to another point; but apparently it's too difficult to skim read and make sure the same argument isn't being trotted out.
My response goes as follows:

I've recieved this type of response throughout the thread. The problem is that it has zero explanatory power. You mention that there are some problems with creating and issuing money debt-free, then go on to mention only one problem which is highly abstract and barely original in content. The government could flood the economy with money, but that money wouldn't necessarily cause inflation if it is spent on a whole range of public projects, infrastructure and services that stimulate aggregate demand, since money spent on productive activities increases supply alongside demand. The only constraint on government spending that there ought to be are the physical constraints of nature, of human capital and of raw material; and the electorate can then exercise their democratic right in voicing their wishes and needs for funding, whatever that may be.

The creative power and potential unleashed by the ability to simply create and issue money without a corresponding debt is extraordinary; a near utopia would be absolutely possible. The primary obstacle is the private banking industry who create money in the form of debt through their lending practices and cause asset-price inflation in the speculative property and financial markets. National governments have been completely subordinated to the private banking industry, when in fact the power ought to be in the reverse.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 225

Quady

Original post by CoolCavy

oh i do apologise i wa the one who misread it, i'm sorry :colondollar:

i thought it was good for savers tho bc what they invested gets extra depending on the inflation and the higher the inflation the more they recieve :s-smilie:

Thats fine, just ironic.

No.

It depends on the interest rate not the inflation rate.

The difference between the interest rate and the inflation rate is the real return. If inflation is high then the real return will be low or negative.

Reply 226

Quady

Original post by Polymath0

I guess I will have to continue repeating myself multiple times in order to counter the same worn out argument by different members.

You resurrected your own dead stupid thread.

If its not fun for you then why bother?

Reply 227

Polymath0

Original post by Quady

You resurrected your own dead stupid thread.

If its not fun for you then why bother?

If trolls such as yourself could have their unwanted existence removed from this particular thread, it would certainly become fun and insightful.
I call you a troll because only a troll would label this thread dead and stupid without even providing a reason as to why they think that.

Reply 228

Quady

Original post by Polymath0

Because this thread went from the 2nd Feb to 12th Aug without a post until you brought it back from the dead - technically after six months it should've been closed by a mod.

Then from the 17th Aug to 24th Sept its only had posts by you.

So since 2nd Feb this thread has had what - a max of six days (and I think its four) where people have posted. Why are you bothering, the patient isn't waking up.

There is my reason.

Also you have 80 posts and I have over 20,000, its more likely you're the troll here mate.

Reply 229

Polymath0

Original post by Quady

Because this thread went from the 2nd Feb to 12th Aug without a post until you brought it back from the dead - technically after six months it should've been closed by a mod.

Says who? You? Discussions in threads generally fizzle out for a while before they pick up again; it's kind of analogous to the business cycle (which, incidentally, I argue is only brought about by the debt-based monetary system). That's no reason for why it should be closed; that's a complete non-sequitur.

Then from the 17th Aug to 24th Sept its only had posts by you.

So since 2nd Feb this thread has had what - a max of six days (and I think its four) where people have posted. Why are you bothering, the patient isn't waking up.

There is my reason.

I still haven't found the reason why you called it stupid. Are you aware that an insult is not a valid substitute for a reasoned explanation?

Also you have 80 posts and I have over 20,000, its more likely you're the troll here mate.

That's probably among the worst logical fallacies I've ever witnessed. You have an incredible ability at non-sequiturs. Certainly nothing to be even remotely proud of though.

Reply 230

Polymath0

Quady,

The fact that this thread has gained a great deal of traction, given the number of views received, and more so than most of the other threads in the UK Politics section, I think it would be fair to say that this thread ought to be pinned. How does that sound? Since it's so popular there is no reason why it should be closed down, especially as most people are blissfully unaware that the government has been stripped from its right to create money for the public interest.

Of course, you have zero jurisdiction over what threads deserve to close shop and what not anyway.

Reply 231

Quady

Original post by Polymath0

Says who? You?

The thread post history.

Reply 232

Quady

Original post by Polymath0

I think it would be fair to say that this thread ought to be pinned. How does that sound? Since it's so popular there is no reason why it should be closed down,

Ask one of the mods to pin it then.

Reply 233

Quady

Original post by Polymath0

I still haven't found the reason why you called it stupid.

As per my first post on this thread.

It can.

Since your OP can be answered with two words (someone more eloquent could probably do it in one) its a stupid thread.

Reply 234

MatureStudent36

Original post by United1892

Only in extreme cases. Inflation is not inherently bad.

Hyperinflation is bad though, and that what happens if you just print more
Money.

Reply 235

United1892

Original post by MatureStudent36

Hyperinflation is bad though, and that what happens if you just print more
Money.

Only if you print a lot of it for a long time.

Reply 236

Polymath0

Original post by Quady

As per my first post on this thread.

It can.

Since your OP can be answered with two words (someone more eloquent could probably do it in one) its a stupid thread.

A mere two word assertion does not contain reasoning and evidence. It appears you aren't actually being serious since you haven't at all dealt with the evidence I have provided. Instead of having my time wasted by a veritable troll, I shall be ignoring you henceforth until you reform your unsound ways.

Reply 237

Polymath0

Original post by United1892

Only if you print a lot of it for a long time.

Precisely, and especially when spent on unproductive activity. In a debt-free based economic model, the infusion of sovereign money will lessen overtime since the continual returns on investment from large-scale production will eventually suffice to run a utopian economy.

I kindly ask you to be more precise in your terms. In the current debt-based monetary system paper money that is printed is a mere remnant of earlier times since it constitutes only around 3% of the total money supply. The physical cash and coin, however, are not issued as loans since we have transitioned to a digital-based fiat system which is created by private banks.
Thus, the abstract notion of simply printing money and issuing it in isolation of any context is not helpful. Let's restore back to the discussion the reality that private commercial banks create purchasing power each time they make a loan.

Reply 238

Polymath0

Can anyone explain how the left / right paradigm would be relevant in a Sovereign Money system? I argue that it wouldn't be relevant given that there would be neither borrowing nor taxation involved. The system transcends the political divide since it exposes the artificial constraints that occasion such political tribalism in the first place.

Reply 239

Polymath0

Can a moderator kindly have this thread pinned? It's essential that it doesn't escape the attention of fellow members. This thread taps into the solution to most social and economic problems.

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