Literally every economic problem is caused by government.

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Reply 20

username878267

Original post by fleky6910

Never said pure anarchy works, if you read my post you idiot

Yet your favourite quote is 'government is the problem'?

So we need a government yet government is the problem?

Reply 21

anarchism101

Original post by kyledean99

Every single one.
Try me.

#taxationistheft
#privatiseeverything

Good title, but you're doing it wrong.

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Reply 22

username2808800

Original post by Bornblue

Yet your favourite quote is 'government is the problem'?

So we need a government yet government is the problem?

The government needs to be more effecient?? You can be for small government and not support pure anarchism, just like you can be socialist and not support communism.

Reply 23

username878267

Original post by fleky6910

The government needs to be more effecient?? You can be for small government and not support pure anarchism, just like you can be socialist and not support communism.

'The government needs to be more efficient'? What a meaningless sound bite. You lot just churn out these buzzwords in the hope that people accept them as being substantive arguments.

The quote you highlighted said 'government is the problem', yet you support having a government? Make up your mind.

Reply 24

username1799249

Original post by Rakas21

Actually governments around the world were encouraging banks to throw credit at people so there's a fair case to be made.

I think that is quite a sweeping statement. I was hoping someone might say the government deregulated the banking sector which is quite a different matter from actively encouraging them to offer credit. The banks offer credit because it makes them lots of money. The OP seemed to suggest from his hash tags that that is a good thing whilst at the same time suggesting that governments are always at fault for economic disasters. So which is it? Deregulation (i.e. government lite) or heavy handed governmental administration?

Reply 25

AlexanderHam

Original post by kyledean99

Every single one.
Try me.

#taxationistheft

Calling taxation theft is moronic. How many thieves are taking money according to a system to which you have agreed by staying in the country and being part of this polity, and in return for the "theft" they provide services?

Reply 26

Chuquo2017

Original post by kyledean99

Every single one.
Try me.

#taxationistheft
#privatiseeverything

You're absolutely right.

The government helped cause the financial crisis by making mortgage loans available to all through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, then having Alan Greenspan talk up the junk mortgage books.

As a solution the government is basically rigging markets by holding interest rates down. This causes overborrowing. In order to do this the government has to inflate the money supply on the banking system using QE.

What happens with any skew in economics? A readjustment. When happens with a readjustment, a financial crisis.

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Reply 27

Chuquo2017

Original post by AlexanderHam

Completely idiotic position. Countries with no functioning court system, where contracts freely entered into cannot be enforced, have far more economic problems than those with a functioning court system.

You're simply exhibiting the sort of superficial, junior common room libertarianism typical of people who don't think about these issues too deeply but feel they are oh so radical for adopting these brainless positions

Calling taxation theft is moronic. How many thieves are taking money according to a system to which you have agreed by staying in the country and being part of this polity, and in return for the "theft" they provide services?

He is not talking about a country with no court system, police or fire brigade.

He's talking about intervention in markets, people's lives.

We have governments they to achieve outcomes by manipulating markets (central banks and interest rates), trying to control us with political correctness, control if one person offends another, vast armies of useless bureaucrats:

Press 1 for tax collection services
Press 2 for customer collections services
Press 3 for VAT services
Press 4 for parking charge services
Press 5 for penalty charge collection services
Press 6 for council tax services

I don't want most of these "services".

We should just just down 75% of the state.

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Reply 28

AlexanderHam

Original post by Chuquo2017

He is not talking about a country with no court system, police or fire brigade.

We have governments they to achieve outcomes by manipulating markets (central banks and interest rates)

By "manipulation", you mean regulation. And no-one forces you to lend or borrow at BoE rates, and no-one forces you to use Bank of England notes to trade.

trying to control us with political correctness

I think the conversation has to end here. It's impossible to have a serious, mature conversation with someone who is having some kind of paranoid psychotic episode shrieking about how the illuminati is "controlling" us with "political correctness". It's lunatic stuff.

Reply 29

shreddingfish92

Original post by Diego Costa

What exactly is your issue with capitalism? J/w

No issue with capitalism in our current form my issue would be with unrestricted capitalism. I don't agree with OP's premise that the free market will cater to everyone or that privatisation is some magical fix all when in many cases it is more fiscally responsible to run services publicly. I usually vote Lib Dem if that matters.

Reply 30

3121

Okay, if we privatised health services we'd have an even bigger health crisis I mean just look at america. I think you're to an extent though, government does need to keep its hand out of certain areas of the private sector but then do you say the banking crisis was caused by government because it deregulated the sector or do you say it was the banks for not being responsible?

Reply 31

Chuquo2017

Original post by AlexanderHam

That's exactly what he's talking about. If taxation is theft, then all tax is illegitimate and thus any government service that relies on compulsion (the court system) must also be illegitimate.

He claims every economic problem is caused by government. That is clearly wrong; massive economic problems are caused by lack of government, as can be seen in places like Somalia.

By "manipulation", you mean regulation. And no-one forces you to lend or borrow at BoE rates, and no-one forces you to use Bank of England notes to trade.

I think the conversation has to end here. It's impossible to have a serious, mature conversation with someone who is having some kind of paranoid psychotic episode shrieking about how the illuminati is "controlling" us with "political correctness". It's lunatic stuff.

I suspect he is saying that 50/60/70% taxation is theft and it is theft. I am sure most people with this view won't object to a modest tax rate.

Yes lack of govt causes economic, lack of govt and too much govt also creates a constant economic problem.

You need to distinguish between regulation of a market which is fine and manipulation by participation in the market. The Bank of a England doing QE is clearly participation not regulation.

I think you will struggle to reasonable argue that the state does not push ideological slogans like diversity is good, equality, combatting traditional stereotypes, the state openly pushes these. The state gets involved in opinion crime / hate crime and making sure that someone does not offend someone else's. The state has clearly exceeded into remit in so many ways.

I don't mind the basic remit of the state: basic essential services.

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Reply 32

anarchism101

Original post by AlexanderHam

Calling taxation theft is moronic.

It's just an attempt by "anarcho-capitalists" to blatantly copycat the anarchist Proudhon's more famous line "Property is theft". Don't expect it to be well thought through.

Reply 33

AlexanderHam

Original post by Chuquo2017

I suspect he is saying that 50/60/70% taxation is theft and it is theft. I am sure most people with this view won't object to a modest tax rate.

So then he's not objecting to taxation per se, simply asserting that he desires a different distribution of resources. But that's nothing radical, that's just politics. Every disagreement about how tax is collected and spent is simply a political dispute, not a philosophical one.

Yes lack of govt causes economic, lack of govt and too much govt also creates a constant economic problem.

Of course, I would agree with that. But he claims every economic problem is caused by government. Some will be, some will not be. Government has been the great civilising force of humanity; it is only by organising and aggregating for the purchase of fundamental service, for the provision of personal security, for the creation of courts to enforce contracts and punish criminals, that we have managed to acquire the high level of civilisation we presently possess.

I don't assert that everything government does is good, but it is profoundly superficial to (as we see in many modern libertarians/conservatives) claim that somehow government is the major problem of modern society.

I think you will struggle to reasonable argue that the state does not push ideological slogans like diversity is good, equality, combatting traditional stereotypes, the state openly pushes these.

Sure, but this is not some kind of liberal conspiracy, as the hysterical Trumptards will claim. It's simply good sense to encourage amity and concord between the different classes and races. Traditionally, English government has had a strong concern for ensuring harmonious class relations and that sensibly extends to the races etc.

The obsession with "political correctness" by right-wingers is laughably hypocritical because they push their own form of obnoxious political correctness; no-one is allowed to have any opinion on feminism or LGBT rights or racism without these idiots hijacking the conversation and turning it around into a conversation about how they're offended by feminism and how it's contrary to free speech to criticise bigots for saying bigoted things. The right-wing conception of free speech seems to be, "I'm allowed to say whatever bigoted things I want. But if you criticise me for it or boycott me, you're suppressing free speech". They're crybabies, I have no sympathy for them

Reply 34

jape

Original post by kyledean99

Every single one.
Try me.

#taxationistheft
#privatiseeverything

Depends how you define problem. I'm an economic libertarian, but pulling the government out of the economy 100% wouldn't just make everything perfect. Recessions would still happen. They wouldn't be as catastrophic I don't think, but they'd still happen.