Do you need further maths a level to do physics/engineering at uni?
So I'm currently doing maths bio chem and physics and planning to drop bio after as, and would love to go into some kind of engineering or physics but some people say without further maths it would not really be possible. Anyone know anything about this?
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It definitely possible without further although certain places may be harder to get into as the "better" unis will probably have a higher proportion of applicants who have done further maths. Does you sixth form offer further maths as-level? If they do it would probably be a good idea to do that to set you apart/ bring you in line with other applications. I don't think any physics or engineering degrees assume knowledge of further maths but it's definitely helpful. Like the thing is in terms of the skills you actually need- maths modules seem more helpful than physics a-level although I'm also in year 12 (year 2 physics looks a lot better) so don't really know for sure. However lets just say if I get into uni for a physics degree and there a question half of the marks for which is a waffly question about increasing the speed limit on the motorway- then I'll be switching asap XD.
Original post by Mil23333
So I'm currently doing maths bio chem and physics and planning to drop bio after as, and would love to go into some kind of engineering or physics but some people say without further maths it would not really be possible. Anyone know anything about this?
Physics, not sure, but engineering, no. If you look at entry requirements you'll see which subjects are required - generally maths and physics (plus chemistry for chemical).
try further maths AS next year
nonetheless, 1st year of most engineering courses is mostly A-Level Further Maths.
nonetheless, 1st year of most engineering courses is mostly A-Level Further Maths.
Original post by EmLo12
Hi there! 
It would definitely be possible, but depends on what uni you're wanting to go to as some may require further maths (also good choice in AS levels i must say)
It would definitely be possible, but depends on what uni you're wanting to go to as some may require further maths (also good choice in AS levels i must say)ah okay, some say it is desirable but not required but I'm not sure how much importantance they would place on it 🤔
Original post by ozilll
try further maths AS next year
nonetheless, 1st year of most engineering courses is mostly A-Level Further Maths.
nonetheless, 1st year of most engineering courses is mostly A-Level Further Maths.
Oh really!? So do you think it would be a good idea to do further maths as next year ???
Original post by black1blade
It definitely possible without further although certain places may be harder to get into as the "better" unis will probably have a higher proportion of applicants who have done further maths. Does you sixth form offer further maths as-level? If they do it would probably be a good idea to do that to set you apart/ bring you in line with other applications. I don't think any physics or engineering degrees assume knowledge of further maths but it's definitely helpful. Like the thing is in terms of the skills you actually need- maths modules seem more helpful than physics a-level although I'm also in year 12 (year 2 physics looks a lot better) so don't really know for sure. However lets just say if I get into uni for a physics degree and there a question half of the marks for which is a waffly question about increasing the speed limit on the motorway- then I'll be switching asap XD.
Yeah that is true, my sixth form does offer it but when I chose my a levels I thought I wanted to do medicine lol!! I was thinking of self teaching some further maths so at least I can say that and explain in my ps or interview. I think if maths goes well in my as exams I will consider doing further maths as next year so at least it will look like I have tried haha! I did have a look at some of the mechanics modules in further maths and they seem to be basically the same as what we do in physics! Really regret not taking it instead of bio lol but oh well
It's not required (except possibly for Imperial?) but it certainly helps. Mainly, having covered complex numbers, matrices, and the Weierstrass substitutions is very helpful. However you and many others go onto those courses without it and few expect it. If you are able to take AS FM it would definitely be a benefit (as the topics mentioned above are covered on the AS, in general).
But don't be too concerned if you can't fit it, or if you're worried it will affect your overall grades. Also, according to my former flatmate who did a PhD in physics you end up covering all the stuff about FM in first year anyway, while Chemistry had topics that helped understanding the solid state stuff a lot more that wasn't really covered in detail.
But don't be too concerned if you can't fit it, or if you're worried it will affect your overall grades. Also, according to my former flatmate who did a PhD in physics you end up covering all the stuff about FM in first year anyway, while Chemistry had topics that helped understanding the solid state stuff a lot more that wasn't really covered in detail.
Original post by artful_lounger
It's not required (except possibly for Imperial?) but it certainly helps. Mainly, having covered complex numbers, matrices, and the Weierstrass substitutions is very helpful. However you and many others go onto those courses without it and few expect it. If you are able to take AS FM it would definitely be a benefit (as the topics mentioned above are covered on the AS, in general).
But don't be too concerned if you can't fit it, or if you're worried it will affect your overall grades. Also, according to my former flatmate who did a PhD in physics you end up covering all the stuff about FM in first year anyway, while Chemistry had topics that helped understanding the solid state stuff a lot more that wasn't really covered in detail.
But don't be too concerned if you can't fit it, or if you're worried it will affect your overall grades. Also, according to my former flatmate who did a PhD in physics you end up covering all the stuff about FM in first year anyway, while Chemistry had topics that helped understanding the solid state stuff a lot more that wasn't really covered in detail.
Ah thank you so much! Thats so helpful! I think I will see how my maths as goes as to whether I do further as next year. Also any advice on how to chose what engineering or physics to go into as I really don't know!!
Original post by Mil23333
Ah thank you so much! Thats so helpful! I think I will see how my maths as goes as to whether I do further as next year. Also any advice on how to chose what engineering or physics to go into as I really don't know!!
Mm can't really say beyond the generic platitudes you'll get; if you like understanding how the fundamental way things work, go with physics. If you want to understand more about ways to use that to make cool stuff go, then engineering.
It's a bit glib and not even wholly accurate but...in physics you'll do quantum and wave physics, statistical mechanics as an extension of thermodynamics, and higher level mechanics which considers generalised dynamics of particles. You'll also do a good amount of electromagnetism, especially more general formulations of it and EM wave propagation, plus some nuclear and high energy physics, and solid state (condensed matter, crystal physics, basic materials).
In engineering you'll focus more on various applications of statics and strength of materials (beams in bending, rods in torsion) as well as some dynamics (think of gearing and so on). Electromagnetism will mainly be electronics/circuits, and if you specialise in it some high voltage power systems/ EM wave propagation. You may touch on elements of condensed matter physics with regard to semiconductors. You'll also do thermodynamics and fluid mechanics typically.
So the major difference is the higher level quantum and related stuff; wave physics, condensed matter, so on and so forth. You'll also do EM, thermodynamics and mechanics to a higher level of sophistication, both mathematically and physically. However you won't do nearly as much of the applications; how to design complex circuits, engines and so on.
Original post by artful_lounger
Mm can't really say beyond the generic platitudes you'll get; if you like understanding how the fundamental way things work, go with physics. If you want to understand more about ways to use that to make cool stuff go, then engineering.
It's a bit glib and not even wholly accurate but...in physics you'll do quantum and wave physics, statistical mechanics as an extension of thermodynamics, and higher level mechanics which considers generalised dynamics of particles. You'll also do a good amount of electromagnetism, especially more general formulations of it and EM wave propagation, plus some nuclear and high energy physics, and solid state (condensed matter, crystal physics, basic materials).
In engineering you'll focus more on various applications of statics and strength of materials (beams in bending, rods in torsion) as well as some dynamics (think of gearing and so on). Electromagnetism will mainly be electronics/circuits, and if you specialise in it some high voltage power systems/ EM wave propagation. You may touch on elements of condensed matter physics with regard to semiconductors. You'll also do thermodynamics and fluid mechanics typically.
So the major difference is the higher level quantum and related stuff; wave physics, condensed matter, so on and so forth. You'll also do EM, thermodynamics and mechanics to a higher level of sophistication, both mathematically and physically. However you won't do nearly as much of the applications; how to design complex circuits, engines and so on.
It's a bit glib and not even wholly accurate but...in physics you'll do quantum and wave physics, statistical mechanics as an extension of thermodynamics, and higher level mechanics which considers generalised dynamics of particles. You'll also do a good amount of electromagnetism, especially more general formulations of it and EM wave propagation, plus some nuclear and high energy physics, and solid state (condensed matter, crystal physics, basic materials).
In engineering you'll focus more on various applications of statics and strength of materials (beams in bending, rods in torsion) as well as some dynamics (think of gearing and so on). Electromagnetism will mainly be electronics/circuits, and if you specialise in it some high voltage power systems/ EM wave propagation. You may touch on elements of condensed matter physics with regard to semiconductors. You'll also do thermodynamics and fluid mechanics typically.
So the major difference is the higher level quantum and related stuff; wave physics, condensed matter, so on and so forth. You'll also do EM, thermodynamics and mechanics to a higher level of sophistication, both mathematically and physically. However you won't do nearly as much of the applications; how to design complex circuits, engines and so on.
Wow thank you!!! So useful 🤔 Do you think the career prospects are better for an engineering degree?
Original post by Mil23333
Wow thank you!!! So useful 🤔 Do you think the career prospects are better for an engineering degree?
Well that sort of depends on what you want to do; both are "rigorous" quantitative degrees so that opens many avenues. You can get CEng after a physics degree but it takes longer and involves more bureaucracy. Equally you can go on to do a PhD in engineering, applied maths, CS, or many of the physical sciences (some areas anyway with engineering). So on that front they're more or less equal.
That said if your goal is to become an academic researcher, physics probably has a better foundation regardless of whether you remain in physics or move more to the engineering side. Likewise if your intent is to go into some form of industry, engineering will probably benefit more as in this case deep subject specific knowledge is less useful than the broader array of knowledge you'd pick up on an engineering course.
In either case though, the difference is marginal; many go into industry (including finance and related sectors) from physics and many go on to remain in academia from engineering. It's really dependent on which course is preferable.
There are also some (increasingly many in fact) "engineering physics" courses which aims to bridge the gap between the academic and industrial aspects of both courses which may be of interest.
Original post by artful_lounger
Well that sort of depends on what you want to do; both are "rigorous" quantitative degrees so that opens many avenues. You can get CEng after a physics degree but it takes longer and involves more bureaucracy. Equally you can go on to do a PhD in engineering, applied maths, CS, or many of the physical sciences (some areas anyway with engineering). So on that front they're more or less equal.
That said if your goal is to become an academic researcher, physics probably has a better foundation regardless of whether you remain in physics or move more to the engineering side. Likewise if your intent is to go into some form of industry, engineering will probably benefit more as in this case deep subject specific knowledge is less useful than the broader array of knowledge you'd pick up on an engineering course.
In either case though, the difference is marginal; many go into industry (including finance and related sectors) from physics and many go on to remain in academia from engineering. It's really dependent on which course is preferable.
There are also some (increasingly many in fact) "engineering physics" courses which aims to bridge the gap between the academic and industrial aspects of both courses which may be of interest.
That said if your goal is to become an academic researcher, physics probably has a better foundation regardless of whether you remain in physics or move more to the engineering side. Likewise if your intent is to go into some form of industry, engineering will probably benefit more as in this case deep subject specific knowledge is less useful than the broader array of knowledge you'd pick up on an engineering course.
In either case though, the difference is marginal; many go into industry (including finance and related sectors) from physics and many go on to remain in academia from engineering. It's really dependent on which course is preferable.
There are also some (increasingly many in fact) "engineering physics" courses which aims to bridge the gap between the academic and industrial aspects of both courses which may be of interest.
Ahhh okay thank you! will have to look into that! I know at some unis like Exeter you can do engineering and then specialise in the second year which I think would be helpful as it's so hard to know what to do! I find the topics you mentioned for physics very interesting so I feel that I would enjoy it more however I think I want to go into more of an industrial kind of career than academic. Then again I will probably change my mind about that at some point haha 🙄
Original post by Mil23333
Ahhh okay thank you! will have to look into that! I know at some unis like Exeter you can do engineering and then specialise in the second year which I think would be helpful as it's so hard to know what to do! I find the topics you mentioned for physics very interesting so I feel that I would enjoy it more however I think I want to go into more of an industrial kind of career than academic. Then again I will probably change my mind about that at some point haha 🙄
Mmm I would...not recommend Exeter for engineering :x speaking from personal experience xD (I would rec for physics though, their physics department is much better organised lol).
Quite a few do have a "general" first year, and many others may well consider you changing after first year to a different discipline if the modules covered are largely the same (e.g. Southampton within the EE/CS area or within Mechanical/Materials/Civil/Aerospace).
You won't normally be able to change much from physics unless you're doing e.g. Cambridge Nat Sci Physics (where you have to necessarily do two other sciences to begin with and can remain semi diverse in second year) and similar courses.
Original post by artful_lounger
Mmm I would...not recommend Exeter for engineering :x speaking from personal experience xD (I would rec for physics though, their physics department is much better organised lol).
Quite a few do have a "general" first year, and many others may well consider you changing after first year to a different discipline if the modules covered are largely the same (e.g. Southampton within the EE/CS area or within Mechanical/Materials/Civil/Aerospace).
You won't normally be able to change much from physics unless you're doing e.g. Cambridge Nat Sci Physics (where you have to necessarily do two other sciences to begin with and can remain semi diverse in second year) and similar courses.
Quite a few do have a "general" first year, and many others may well consider you changing after first year to a different discipline if the modules covered are largely the same (e.g. Southampton within the EE/CS area or within Mechanical/Materials/Civil/Aerospace).
You won't normally be able to change much from physics unless you're doing e.g. Cambridge Nat Sci Physics (where you have to necessarily do two other sciences to begin with and can remain semi diverse in second year) and similar courses.
Ohh okay really? Where do you recommend for doing engineering? (Thank you for being so helpful!!) don't think I'm going to apply to oxbridge to be honest!
Original post by Mil23333
Ohh okay really? Where do you recommend for doing engineering? (Thank you for being so helpful!!) don't think I'm going to apply to oxbridge to be honest!
Southampton and Loughborough have exceptionally well regarded Engineering courses. The London unis are of course generally excellent; UCL has a great breadth of options for engineering, Imperial is the "specialist" for engineering (and the sciences) with courses in the core areas with a great deal of options in later years in more specialised aspects. QMUL has some interesting niche areas (like dental materials or design engineering) of engineering alongside the core disciplines. Not sure what KCL has but they're very well regarded.
Further afield Warwick is a top university for STEM subjects; while this follows a great deal from it's strength in maths, it does cross over to bring up their other quantitative courses recognizability. Durham is very good and offers a collegiate experience outside of Oxbridge (although not to quite the same extent)
Heriot-Watt is quite specialised in STEM subjects and very good in this regard, and Strathclyde also has strengths here. Glasgow, Edinburgh and St Andrews are all top tier generally and you can expect good engineering programmes there.
Any of the Russell Group and red brick universities are good options as well (Manchester probably most notably).
Oh and an international option which may be of interest, if you do maths or maths and physics (or something similar) are the French Grandes Écoles engineering programmes which result in a diploma equivalent to a masters. Top achieving French students after school take 2 further years of intensive maths and physics preparation before entry exams and interviews, and then begin a 3 year diploma which begins at the 3rd year undergrad level and finishes at the "M2" level in the Bologna scheme (i.e. masters degree level here).
There are usually a reasonable degree of flexibility in these and this would allow you to pursue a more physics based undergrad, then realign to engineering and industry after if desired (do note you will need to look at joint honours maths and physics or take additional maths modules in analysis/algebra as options as they expect this level of maths on entry). They have very strong industry links, both within engineering and business (they're renowned for producing a significant number of CEOs globally and most French company CEOs and many public officials there).
Also specifically, École Polytechnique (also known as X), the creme-de-la-creme of these, is launching a new bachelors programme (which also dovetails to it's engineering diploma). Also tuition fees etc are significantly lower in Europe (like, a few hundred euros to maybe a thousand usually). You don't need to have french before applying for some (like École Polytechnique) but will need it by the time you start classes proper (for X the first term there is done as a pre-sessional intensive language immersion I believe for the diploma).
There are usually a reasonable degree of flexibility in these and this would allow you to pursue a more physics based undergrad, then realign to engineering and industry after if desired (do note you will need to look at joint honours maths and physics or take additional maths modules in analysis/algebra as options as they expect this level of maths on entry). They have very strong industry links, both within engineering and business (they're renowned for producing a significant number of CEOs globally and most French company CEOs and many public officials there).
Also specifically, École Polytechnique (also known as X), the creme-de-la-creme of these, is launching a new bachelors programme (which also dovetails to it's engineering diploma). Also tuition fees etc are significantly lower in Europe (like, a few hundred euros to maybe a thousand usually). You don't need to have french before applying for some (like École Polytechnique) but will need it by the time you start classes proper (for X the first term there is done as a pre-sessional intensive language immersion I believe for the diploma).
Original post by artful_lounger
... and St Andrews are all top tier generally and you can expect good engineering programmes there.
St Andrews doesn't offer engineering ...
Original post by Smack
St Andrews doesn't offer engineering ...
Haha my bad, I'm not very familiar with it! Not actually sure if Durham does either, I just assumed it did since it has maths/physics/CS already
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