God gives us free will? IDK bout dat.
So if God is all knowing, and he gives us free will, doesn't that mean he knows what we will chose to do? So that would then lead up to no free will at all, because he know what we will choose. Its not free will if he knows and he can change us. Sometimes if we don't "Choose" right, he can twist things and makes us get back to square one.
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oh thank goodness I thought I was crazy, or the only one thinking this.
There is no free will
Everything in this universe is bound by the laws of cause and effect.
For every action there are a myriad of underlying causes.
Throw a coin in the air (here on planet earth) and like it or not it is bound by the rules of gravity, motion, air resistance, temperature, friction and a million other things. You can not randomly toss that coin. Every time it is thrown the outcome is 100% certain from the moment it is tossed.
The fact that out tiny brains can't comprehend the millions of factors that are impacting the coin is neither here nor there. We call it random because we don't understand those factors but obviously nothing is random.
In a similar vein, the way we think, the things we know, our personal preferences, likes, hates etc are all the result of underlying causes, millions of them. Some are childhood programming, some social conditioning, some biological and so on.
Nothing we do is random. Everything we do is the result of causes.
The entire world is simply like a coin that has been tossed. Events are happening as a direct result of gazillions of underlying causes. All of our lives are playing out because of that original coin toss, the start of the universe.
Everything in this universe is bound by the laws of cause and effect.
For every action there are a myriad of underlying causes.
Throw a coin in the air (here on planet earth) and like it or not it is bound by the rules of gravity, motion, air resistance, temperature, friction and a million other things. You can not randomly toss that coin. Every time it is thrown the outcome is 100% certain from the moment it is tossed.
The fact that out tiny brains can't comprehend the millions of factors that are impacting the coin is neither here nor there. We call it random because we don't understand those factors but obviously nothing is random.
In a similar vein, the way we think, the things we know, our personal preferences, likes, hates etc are all the result of underlying causes, millions of them. Some are childhood programming, some social conditioning, some biological and so on.
Nothing we do is random. Everything we do is the result of causes.
The entire world is simply like a coin that has been tossed. Events are happening as a direct result of gazillions of underlying causes. All of our lives are playing out because of that original coin toss, the start of the universe.
FREE WILL may be a derived effect 1000x what the best AI will ever accomplish thriough neuronal reverberation over and over again in plastic circuits. Does that then make it an EPIPHENOMERNON or a residual effect?
Which is why life cannot be a trial or test by an all-knowing god.
interesting avatar..
Original post by CoolCavy
interesting avatar..
Oh...lmao. I thought they were jelly babies or something and then zoomed in
FREE WILL may be a derived effect a1000x what the best AI system will ever accomplish. This is done through exctremely comlex molecular mechanismsand synapses through neuronal resonceance and signal processing in bilions of very plastic neuronal networks over time and space that still baffle us to this day. Before we can make progress, we had better understand the "BEHAVIORAL INTENT" operations of the basal telencephalon using the cerebral cortex as its laptop computer and the cerebellum and hippocampus as future and past analyzers of intent approximation, given life's experiences. It's all talk now, but we'll have a better sense of what we're talking about when we better understand NEURONAL SIGNALING AND PLASTICITY. Rerberation over and over again in plastic brain circuits may produce such great complexity to seem like free will. Does that then make it an EPIPHENOMENON or a residual effect?
A psychologist named Verplack trained hungry rats to respond to a red circle by running accross a cage to get food from a hopper at the other end. Then he put a yellow triangle attatched over the circle with a paper clip. If the rats went to the hopper when the yellow triangle covered the red circle, they would get shocked as the food hopper was electricuted. Most rats got the message; but when he tested how long the yellow triangle over the circle would keep the hungry rats away from the food hopper out of fear as the hopper was no longer electricuted, one rat ran to the triangle instead of the hopper, pulled the triangle down from over the red circle and prceeded to merrily feed himself at the hopper. Other rats who were able to watch him copied him; those that didn't see him just went hungry avoiding the expected shock at the food hopper. So, what's the difference between learning and free will other than balls of steel?
A psychologist named Verplack trained hungry rats to respond to a red circle by running accross a cage to get food from a hopper at the other end. Then he put a yellow triangle attatched over the circle with a paper clip. If the rats went to the hopper when the yellow triangle covered the red circle, they would get shocked as the food hopper was electricuted. Most rats got the message; but when he tested how long the yellow triangle over the circle would keep the hungry rats away from the food hopper out of fear as the hopper was no longer electricuted, one rat ran to the triangle instead of the hopper, pulled the triangle down from over the red circle and prceeded to merrily feed himself at the hopper. Other rats who were able to watch him copied him; those that didn't see him just went hungry avoiding the expected shock at the food hopper. So, what's the difference between learning and free will other than balls of steel?
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Oh...lmao. I thought they were jelly babies or something and then zoomed in
they actually look weirdly tasty which is not something i ever thought i would be saying
Original post by LoveLifeAndPie
So if God is all knowing, and he gives us free will, doesn't that mean he knows what we will chose to do? So that would then lead up to no free will at all, because he know what we will choose. Its not free will if he knows and he can change us. Sometimes if we don't "Choose" right, he can twist things and makes us get back to square one.
What I think happened here is. Muhammad tried to paint god in this perfect image, but just ended up contradicting himself without realising he just messed up because no-one pointed out his mistakes. So now 1400 years later we are here bumping heads together
trying to decipher his nonsense.(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Monclér
What I think happened here is. Muhammad tried to paint god in this perfect image, but just ended up and contradicting himself without realising he just messed up because no-one pointed out his mistakes. So now 1400 years later we are here bumping heads together trying to decipher his nonsense.
trying to decipher his nonsense.PRSOM. Don’t bother trying to decipher it at all then, let’s just all agree it’s nonsense and move on
Original post by LoveLifeAndPie
So if God is all knowing, and he gives us free will, doesn't that mean he knows what we will chose to do? So that would then lead up to no free will at all, because he know what we will choose. Its not free will if he knows and he can change us. Sometimes if we don't "Choose" right, he can twist things and makes us get back to square one.
people are free to choose bad things. like your picture.
Strong profile pic OP
I am not dissapoint
I am not dissapoint
Original post by CoolCavy
they actually look weirdly tasty which is not something i ever thought i would be saying
As someone who has been raised to believe in God..
Every day in life you come across paths in the form of choices you have to make, i.e What are you going to do today to make you a better person, or reach your goals..? And, as it's a path, each different path you take leads to different outcomes, like what opportunities you get, how successful you are. Or, you can create your own path and go and use it for evil, or good.
So yes, you do have free will. No force is pushing you down a particular path. You're the one capable of doing whatever needs to be done to reach whatever path.
In which case yes, God knows which path you will take. He's not going to stop you, even if it's the wrong path. Why should he? You chose that path. Some of these paths might have been split between doing the right thing for others benefit, or the wrong thing for your benefit. You chose to take the wrong path when surely you know which is the right one. Why should he correct it when your decisions reflect who you are as a person? You'll get whatever you deserve, be it when you die, or in this life.
"God's not real, if he is real then why do bad things happen?" Because people went down the wrong path. From their own free will.
That's from my own opinion, beliefs and experiences. I understand if you choose not to believe any of that, from your own opinion or experiences. But that's what makes sense to me. Not what I choose to believe, or comfort myself into believing, but what appears in my mind as correct. So it would take a lot to convince me otherwise.
Every day in life you come across paths in the form of choices you have to make, i.e What are you going to do today to make you a better person, or reach your goals..? And, as it's a path, each different path you take leads to different outcomes, like what opportunities you get, how successful you are. Or, you can create your own path and go and use it for evil, or good.
So yes, you do have free will. No force is pushing you down a particular path. You're the one capable of doing whatever needs to be done to reach whatever path.
In which case yes, God knows which path you will take. He's not going to stop you, even if it's the wrong path. Why should he? You chose that path. Some of these paths might have been split between doing the right thing for others benefit, or the wrong thing for your benefit. You chose to take the wrong path when surely you know which is the right one. Why should he correct it when your decisions reflect who you are as a person? You'll get whatever you deserve, be it when you die, or in this life.
"God's not real, if he is real then why do bad things happen?" Because people went down the wrong path. From their own free will.
That's from my own opinion, beliefs and experiences. I understand if you choose not to believe any of that, from your own opinion or experiences. But that's what makes sense to me. Not what I choose to believe, or comfort myself into believing, but what appears in my mind as correct. So it would take a lot to convince me otherwise.
Original post by PilgrimOfTruth
There is no free will
Everything in this universe is bound by the laws of cause and effect.
For every action there are a myriad of underlying causes.
Throw a coin in the air (here on planet earth) and like it or not it is bound by the rules of gravity, motion, air resistance, temperature, friction and a million other things. You can not randomly toss that coin. Every time it is thrown the outcome is 100% certain from the moment it is tossed.
The fact that out tiny brains can't comprehend the millions of factors that are impacting the coin is neither here nor there. We call it random because we don't understand those factors but obviously nothing is random.
In a similar vein, the way we think, the things we know, our personal preferences, likes, hates etc are all the result of underlying causes, millions of them. Some are childhood programming, some social conditioning, some biological and so on.
Nothing we do is random. Everything we do is the result of causes.
The entire world is simply like a coin that has been tossed. Events are happening as a direct result of gazillions of underlying causes. All of our lives are playing out because of that original coin toss, the start of the universe.
Everything in this universe is bound by the laws of cause and effect.
For every action there are a myriad of underlying causes.
Throw a coin in the air (here on planet earth) and like it or not it is bound by the rules of gravity, motion, air resistance, temperature, friction and a million other things. You can not randomly toss that coin. Every time it is thrown the outcome is 100% certain from the moment it is tossed.
The fact that out tiny brains can't comprehend the millions of factors that are impacting the coin is neither here nor there. We call it random because we don't understand those factors but obviously nothing is random.
In a similar vein, the way we think, the things we know, our personal preferences, likes, hates etc are all the result of underlying causes, millions of them. Some are childhood programming, some social conditioning, some biological and so on.
Nothing we do is random. Everything we do is the result of causes.
The entire world is simply like a coin that has been tossed. Events are happening as a direct result of gazillions of underlying causes. All of our lives are playing out because of that original coin toss, the start of the universe.
Interesting take on free will which I agree with, too many factors in which ultimately we have no free will at all.
Original post by CoolCavy
interesting avatar..
.... they have gone kv 
PS
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