Cameron spectacular political stunt backfires
David Cameron never believed he would have to hold an EU referendum because he expected to fall short of an overall majority in the 2015 election, according to Donald Tusk. The European council president said the then British prime minister had told him he was relaxed about promising the referendum – which he had done to appease Eurosceptics in his party – because he thought he would again be in coalition with the Liberal Democrats, who would block any such move.
In an interview as part of a BBC documentary, Tusk said: “I asked David Cameron, ‘Why did you decide on this referendum, this – it’s so dangerous, so even stupid, you know,’ and, he told me – and I was really amazed and even shocked – that the only reason was his own party.” Is David Cameron’s new haircut an apology for his breezy Brexit gamble?
Tusk continued: “[He told me] he felt really safe, because he thought at the same time that there’s no risk of a referendum, because his coalition partner, the Liberals, would block this idea of a referendum. But then, surprisingly, he won and there was no coalition partner. So paradoxically David Cameron became the real victim of his own victory.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/21/donald-tusk-warned-david-cameron-about-stupid-eu-referendum-bbc
In an interview as part of a BBC documentary, Tusk said: “I asked David Cameron, ‘Why did you decide on this referendum, this – it’s so dangerous, so even stupid, you know,’ and, he told me – and I was really amazed and even shocked – that the only reason was his own party.” Is David Cameron’s new haircut an apology for his breezy Brexit gamble?
Tusk continued: “[He told me] he felt really safe, because he thought at the same time that there’s no risk of a referendum, because his coalition partner, the Liberals, would block this idea of a referendum. But then, surprisingly, he won and there was no coalition partner. So paradoxically David Cameron became the real victim of his own victory.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/21/donald-tusk-warned-david-cameron-about-stupid-eu-referendum-bbc
Original post by HucktheForde
David Cameron never believed he would have to hold an EU referendum because he expected to fall short of an overall majority in the 2015 election, according to Donald Tusk. The European council president said the then British prime minister had told him he was relaxed about promising the referendum – which he had done to appease Eurosceptics in his party – because he thought he would again be in coalition with the Liberal Democrats, who would block any such move.
In an interview as part of a BBC documentary, Tusk said: “I asked David Cameron, ‘Why did you decide on this referendum, this – it’s so dangerous, so even stupid, you know,’ and, he told me – and I was really amazed and even shocked – that the only reason was his own party.” Is David Cameron’s new haircut an apology for his breezy Brexit gamble?
Tusk continued: “[He told me] he felt really safe, because he thought at the same time that there’s no risk of a referendum, because his coalition partner, the Liberals, would block this idea of a referendum. But then, surprisingly, he won and there was no coalition partner. So paradoxically David Cameron became the real victim of his own victory.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/21/donald-tusk-warned-david-cameron-about-stupid-eu-referendum-bbc
In an interview as part of a BBC documentary, Tusk said: “I asked David Cameron, ‘Why did you decide on this referendum, this – it’s so dangerous, so even stupid, you know,’ and, he told me – and I was really amazed and even shocked – that the only reason was his own party.” Is David Cameron’s new haircut an apology for his breezy Brexit gamble?
Tusk continued: “[He told me] he felt really safe, because he thought at the same time that there’s no risk of a referendum, because his coalition partner, the Liberals, would block this idea of a referendum. But then, surprisingly, he won and there was no coalition partner. So paradoxically David Cameron became the real victim of his own victory.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/21/donald-tusk-warned-david-cameron-about-stupid-eu-referendum-bbc
Well in my opinion the gamble paid off fantastically, well done Mr Cameron.
Not content with nearly 'loosing' Scotland via a glib 'this will fix it' referendum he assumed he couldnt lose, he did the same thing with all our futures - all because of his own ego and career ambitions. Its patently obvious he didnt think he could possibly lose that referendum either - he built no buffer into the result to protect us from a tiny majority either way. I have yet to hear any sense of apology from him for sparking this chaos and division. The man is beneath contempt.
Correct! I said this was the case even before we voted. Conservatives have played party politics with no thought to what to do if we actually want to leave. I personally hold the Conservative party led by David Cameron 100% responsible for the complete mess they have created since they gained office. I personally believe they have excelled themselves in complete economic incompetence on the scale which makes the global 2007 banking crisis look like a drunken nights stag doo spend on credit cards in comparison.
I predicted in 2015 that the Tories could cause unfixable damage to the country when Miliband got rejected, which was a huge mistake by the British electorate. If we voted for Miliband we would be in totally different country now I didn't think I would be proven to be as correct as I have been.
However Miliband was rejected by the people because he did not play political games. Very much the first to put his gun down on the battlefield and he got shot. Miliband would not have played politics like Corbyn. Even in opposition today he would have worked with May to get a solution.
Unfortunately both parties are playing party politics as opposed to looking after and/or trying to sort out the bigger issue which is bigger than labour tory differences. I was a member of the Labour Party I'm not now directly because of current direction on forigen trade relations, the involvement of Abbott in shadow cabinet.
So draw your own conclusions on my views of Labour. However as much as I do not believe in labour's approach to Brexit It is the whole of Parliament that is damaging british poltics.
If there is a general election before Brexit, I simply don't know who I'd vote for. Let's hope there is not, let's hope we leave with no deal and l hope it does cause short term pain, because I believe that we the British people can do anything. We will start manufacturing things again, we will gain trade deals with other countries in the end, that's a given but being so reliant on forigen food, goods and labour is not and cannot be good for the UK. That's (in my eyes) why we are in increasing debt, every pound we spend in Starbucks, burger King, Costa takes money out of the UK and into offshore bank accounts for the corporate elite whom fund the tories, and the EU is actively doing very little encourage manufactureing in the UK. Every pound spent on local food, from local manufacturers and small businesses boosts the economy by continued investment in our own country. We simply must invest in our own country if we are going to ever get out of debt.
I predicted in 2015 that the Tories could cause unfixable damage to the country when Miliband got rejected, which was a huge mistake by the British electorate. If we voted for Miliband we would be in totally different country now I didn't think I would be proven to be as correct as I have been.
However Miliband was rejected by the people because he did not play political games. Very much the first to put his gun down on the battlefield and he got shot. Miliband would not have played politics like Corbyn. Even in opposition today he would have worked with May to get a solution.
Unfortunately both parties are playing party politics as opposed to looking after and/or trying to sort out the bigger issue which is bigger than labour tory differences. I was a member of the Labour Party I'm not now directly because of current direction on forigen trade relations, the involvement of Abbott in shadow cabinet.
So draw your own conclusions on my views of Labour. However as much as I do not believe in labour's approach to Brexit It is the whole of Parliament that is damaging british poltics.
If there is a general election before Brexit, I simply don't know who I'd vote for. Let's hope there is not, let's hope we leave with no deal and l hope it does cause short term pain, because I believe that we the British people can do anything. We will start manufacturing things again, we will gain trade deals with other countries in the end, that's a given but being so reliant on forigen food, goods and labour is not and cannot be good for the UK. That's (in my eyes) why we are in increasing debt, every pound we spend in Starbucks, burger King, Costa takes money out of the UK and into offshore bank accounts for the corporate elite whom fund the tories, and the EU is actively doing very little encourage manufactureing in the UK. Every pound spent on local food, from local manufacturers and small businesses boosts the economy by continued investment in our own country. We simply must invest in our own country if we are going to ever get out of debt.
Original post by ColinDent
Well in my opinion the gamble paid off fantastically, well done Mr Cameron.
Unfortunately you'd be wrong, we are not going to get what we voted for because the elite don't want it to happen.
Original post by Burton Bridge
Unfortunately you'd be wrong, we are not going to get what we voted for because the elite don't want it to happen.
Not yet for sure but I believe there are already plans afoot for some kind of brexit party to run in the, almost inevitable now, general election and I for one do not care who is standing for them in my area because they will get my vote, I feel this will be the case right around the country.
All of the mainstream parties have let us down so are forcing us into this course of action.
Original post by ColinDent
Well in my opinion the gamble paid off fantastically, well done Mr Cameron.
The gamble hasn't paid out yet. We haven't left. Let's have this conversation in a couple of years and where are at then.
Quite and we are unlikely to either, what we are sleepwalking too is BINO so two years down the line they can blame everything bad on leaving when in reality we never really left in any meaningful way.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by ColinDent
Not yet for sure but I believe there are already plans afoot for some kind of brexit party to run in the, almost inevitable now, general election and I for one do not care who is standing for them in my area because they will get my vote, I feel this will be the case right around the country.
All of the mainstream parties have let us down so are forcing us into this course of action.
All of the mainstream parties have let us down so are forcing us into this course of action.
To replace UKIP. Realistically what difference do you think they are likely to make?
I honestly can't see a meaningful revolution for the better like the sociallist one after WW2 happening.
Original post by Burton Bridge
To replace UKIP. Realistically what difference do you think they are likely to make?
I honestly can't see a meaningful revolution for the better like the sociallist one after WW2 happening.
I honestly can't see a meaningful revolution for the better like the sociallist one after WW2 happening.
There is going to be a huge backlash against the main parties, I suspect that a new brexit party would be able to field a scarecrow as a candidate and still win in some constituencies, although to be fair that would be an improvement in many.
People aren't going to just say oh well we tried, let's go and vote Tory/Labour at the end of this if parliament does get it's way and override the referendum, a whole new political landscape approaches.
Original post by ColinDent
There is going to be a huge backlash against the main parties, I suspect that a new brexit party would be able to field a scarecrow as a candidate and still win in some constituencies, although to be fair that would be an improvement in many.
People aren't going to just say oh well we tried, let's go and vote Tory/Labour at the end of this if parliament does get it's way and override the referendum, a whole new political landscape approaches.
People aren't going to just say oh well we tried, let's go and vote Tory/Labour at the end of this if parliament does get it's way and override the referendum, a whole new political landscape approaches.
You mean like the series of electoral triumphs enjoyed by Nigel Farage?
Original post by nulli tertius
You mean like the series of electoral triumphs enjoyed by Nigel Farage?
I think that there's a good argument to say that Mr Farage is one of the most successful politicians of all time, but no not like that, there will be way more than the 4 million votes next time now we have seen just how willing parliament is to carry out their promises, they were given the benefit of the doubt in 2017 but it won't happen again.
I think he is the greatest political failure in history, he never won his own seat.
I think there is a good space for an uprising against the establishment. I think Anna's recent teddy bear throwing over the bit of verbal she got on national TV only goes to show how the political elite veiw themselves vs ordinary people. The problem they are not thinking about Is the wording of the possible legislation, its a very grey area, no one bats an eye lid when Nigel gets his car smashed up by pro remainer protesters. Then there is the more sinister the likes of Anjem Choudary and Tommy Robinson could also claim abuse that the police don't take seriously and neither do the political elite either? Maybe slightly off topic but it all links because all of this fuels the fire of distain towards the establishment but its a highly dangerous road and one which can take a turn towards some place nobody wants to travel very quickly.
The problem I have is as much as I am angry at our main partyies for their betrayal, there are other issues other than Brexit which need to be taken into consideration when picking a government. Where will the new party stand on these other issues, like progressive taxation for example
I think there is a good space for an uprising against the establishment. I think Anna's recent teddy bear throwing over the bit of verbal she got on national TV only goes to show how the political elite veiw themselves vs ordinary people. The problem they are not thinking about Is the wording of the possible legislation, its a very grey area, no one bats an eye lid when Nigel gets his car smashed up by pro remainer protesters. Then there is the more sinister the likes of Anjem Choudary and Tommy Robinson could also claim abuse that the police don't take seriously and neither do the political elite either? Maybe slightly off topic but it all links because all of this fuels the fire of distain towards the establishment but its a highly dangerous road and one which can take a turn towards some place nobody wants to travel very quickly.
The problem I have is as much as I am angry at our main partyies for their betrayal, there are other issues other than Brexit which need to be taken into consideration when picking a government. Where will the new party stand on these other issues, like progressive taxation for example
Original post by Burton Bridge
I think he is the greatest political failure in history, he never won his own seat.
I think there is a good space for an uprising against the establishment. I think Anna's recent teddy bear throwing over the bit of verbal she got on national TV only goes to show how the political elite veiw themselves vs ordinary people. The problem they are not thinking about Is the wording of the possible legislation, its a very grey area, no one bats an eye lid when Nigel gets his car smashed up by pro remainer protesters. Then there is the more sinister the likes of Anjem Choudary and Tommy Robinson could also claim abuse that the police don't take seriously and neither do the political elite either? Maybe slightly off topic but it all links because all of this fuels the fire of distain towards the establishment but its a highly dangerous road and one which can take a turn towards some place nobody wants to travel very quickly.
The problem I have is as much as I am angry at our main partyies for their betrayal, there are other issues other than Brexit which need to be taken into consideration when picking a government. Where will the new party stand on these other issues, like progressive taxation for example
I think there is a good space for an uprising against the establishment. I think Anna's recent teddy bear throwing over the bit of verbal she got on national TV only goes to show how the political elite veiw themselves vs ordinary people. The problem they are not thinking about Is the wording of the possible legislation, its a very grey area, no one bats an eye lid when Nigel gets his car smashed up by pro remainer protesters. Then there is the more sinister the likes of Anjem Choudary and Tommy Robinson could also claim abuse that the police don't take seriously and neither do the political elite either? Maybe slightly off topic but it all links because all of this fuels the fire of distain towards the establishment but its a highly dangerous road and one which can take a turn towards some place nobody wants to travel very quickly.
The problem I have is as much as I am angry at our main partyies for their betrayal, there are other issues other than Brexit which need to be taken into consideration when picking a government. Where will the new party stand on these other issues, like progressive taxation for example
The big problem is that until brexit is sorted it's pretty difficult to get on with the governance of the country so let's just get that out of the way first.
There may even be some more established politicians joining any new party
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