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Scottish Independence Issue
Hey there.
So I'm considering a career in the Royal Air Force, and I'm currently going into Year 3 of Secondary. The issue is that with the whole Brexit ordeal and the government likely to have another independence referendum, should I consider other options? I have no idea what the plan is if we do declare Independence (which is looking likely) and how it will impact our relationship with England in terms of defense. If I were to join the military and we remained in a union, I would of joined in England, but I don't feel comfortable training in England if we do declare Independence and have separate militarizes.
So my question is, does anyone have any knowledge on the plans if Scotland does leave the UK? Will we have a united military, or will we break off? Does Scotland have the same quality of aircraft compared to down south?
So I'm considering a career in the Royal Air Force, and I'm currently going into Year 3 of Secondary. The issue is that with the whole Brexit ordeal and the government likely to have another independence referendum, should I consider other options? I have no idea what the plan is if we do declare Independence (which is looking likely) and how it will impact our relationship with England in terms of defense. If I were to join the military and we remained in a union, I would of joined in England, but I don't feel comfortable training in England if we do declare Independence and have separate militarizes.
So my question is, does anyone have any knowledge on the plans if Scotland does leave the UK? Will we have a united military, or will we break off? Does Scotland have the same quality of aircraft compared to down south?
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Original post by Bobby Jones 1
Hey there.
So I'm considering a career in the Royal Air Force, and I'm currently going into Year 3 of Secondary. The issue is that with the whole Brexit ordeal and the government likely to have another independence referendum, should I consider other options? I have no idea what the plan is if we do declare Independence (which is looking likely) and how it will impact our relationship with England in terms of defense. If I were to join the military and we remained in a union, I would of joined in England, but I don't feel comfortable training in England if we do declare Independence and have separate militarizes.
So my question is, does anyone have any knowledge on the plans if Scotland does leave the UK? Will we have a united military, or will we break off? Does Scotland have the same quality of aircraft compared to down south?
So I'm considering a career in the Royal Air Force, and I'm currently going into Year 3 of Secondary. The issue is that with the whole Brexit ordeal and the government likely to have another independence referendum, should I consider other options? I have no idea what the plan is if we do declare Independence (which is looking likely) and how it will impact our relationship with England in terms of defense. If I were to join the military and we remained in a union, I would of joined in England, but I don't feel comfortable training in England if we do declare Independence and have separate militarizes.
So my question is, does anyone have any knowledge on the plans if Scotland does leave the UK? Will we have a united military, or will we break off? Does Scotland have the same quality of aircraft compared to down south?
Who is your loyalty to (putting residence aside)?
Given the SNP have a very dovish attitude to defense it is likely they would maintain a defense force for peacekeeping missions but a minimal global presense.
It is however likely that the UK would continue to allow Scots to join given a substantial part of Scotland would vote to stay with the UK.
You should also consider that with the SNP likely to loose the SNP-Green majority in 2021 at Hollyrood it could take 2-3 years to ratify an exit agreement as we see with ours.
Original post by Bobby Jones 1
So I'm considering a career in the Royal Air Force,
I don't know why you think the government will allow another referendum only a few years after a once-in-a-generation opportunity to make the independence decision..An independent Scotland under a defensively supine SNP is not going to have any air forces worth the name, certainly few or no fixed wing strike aircraft. In any event if you are only in your third year much water has to pass under the bridge before you will be called on to make such a decision.
Original post by Rakas21
Who is your loyalty to (putting residence aside)?
Given the SNP have a very dovish attitude to defense it is likely they would maintain a defense force for peacekeeping missions but a minimal global presense.
It is however likely that the UK would continue to allow Scots to join given a substantial part of Scotland would vote to stay with the UK.
You should also consider that with the SNP likely to loose the SNP-Green majority in 2021 at Hollyrood it could take 2-3 years to ratify an exit agreement as we see with ours.
Given the SNP have a very dovish attitude to defense it is likely they would maintain a defense force for peacekeeping missions but a minimal global presense.
It is however likely that the UK would continue to allow Scots to join given a substantial part of Scotland would vote to stay with the UK.
You should also consider that with the SNP likely to loose the SNP-Green majority in 2021 at Hollyrood it could take 2-3 years to ratify an exit agreement as we see with ours.
By the time the exit agreement is done and we are independent, I would still be in university for engineering. If Scotland were independent and had separate militates, I wouldn't join the UK military regardless of my opinions. I don't like the idea of serving under a country which isn't my own, which is why I wouldn't join the Air Force if we were independent. As you said, the SNP have a much more lighter approach when it comes to defense, and my worry is that i'll join whatever Scottish Air Force there is, and be stuck at a random isolated military base with below-par planes. Thanks for the reply, I think I'll wait it out longer and see what happens.
Original post by Good bloke
I don't know why you think the government will allow another referendum only a few years after a once-in-a-generation opportunity to make the independence decision..An independent Scotland under a defensively supine SNP is not going to have any air forces worth the name, certainly few or no fixed wing strike aircraft. In any event if you are only in your third year much water has to pass under the bridge before you will be called on to make such a decision.
In Scotland there is a lot of talk of another referendum, with Nicolas Sturgeon meeting with the Prime Minster and having conversations about another one. It used to be a once-in-a-generation opportunity but Brexit has opened up a wide variety of opportunities for Scotland. As you said, I suspect that the new Scottish Military wouldn't have a very good Air Force, which is why I made this post. Third Year is quite a big year when thinking over what you want to do in the future in my school, and I'm still considering a wide variety of careers. If I were to do Engineering, I would join the Air Force, but my options in terms of joining the military are scarce if we leave the UK.
Original post by Bobby Jones 1
In Scotland there is a lot of talk of another referendum, with Nicolas Sturgeon meeting with the Prime Minster and having conversations about another one.
Those conversations go along the lines of:
NS: We must have a new referendum, ye sassenach *******!
PM: Go away.
Original post by Good bloke
Those conversations go along the lines of:
NS: We must have a new referendum, ye sassenach *******!
PM: Go away.
NS: We must have a new referendum, ye sassenach *******!
PM: Go away.
Still, not out of the realm of possibility. It does seem that the SNP are quite unprepared, but a large majority of Scots want Independence. I think we can agree that a second referendum could happen, which is enough for me to rethink my options.
Original post by Bobby Jones 1
Still, not out of the realm of possibility. It does seem that the SNP are quite unprepared, but a large majority of Scots want Independence. I think we can agree that a second referendum could happen, which is enough for me to rethink my options.
Wait until/ if it happens, then see what your options are.
Original post by Bobby Jones 1
Still, not out of the realm of possibility. It does seem that the SNP are quite unprepared, but a large majority of Scots want Independence. I think we can agree that a second referendum could happen, which is enough for me to rethink my options.
I think you ought to better understand what a "large majority" is before you make that claim.
Are you looking to fix planes or fly them, just asking as you've mentioned the quality of the planes and your choice of future degree so wanted a better understanding of your drive to join up.
Original post by Bobby Jones 1
a large majority of Scots want Independence.
Show us the evidence.
Original post by Bobby Jones 1
Still, not out of the realm of possibility. It does seem that the SNP are quite unprepared, but a large majority of Scots want Independence. I think we can agree that a second referendum could happen, which is enough for me to rethink my options.
This is simply not the case. No poll including Don't Know's indicates a preference for independence (the recent Ashcroft poll excluded them). Indeed, current polls suggest even that the SNP and Greens will lose their majority in Hollyrood (though they likely retain power).
On topic please guys. This isn't a political forum.
OP There are a huge number of Scots in the UK Armed Forces. This will be thought about and I suspect you'd be given the choice as to what you do with yourselves should the union cease to exist. My advice would be to press on with your application. If you get in and have a job you're in a much better position than if you don't apply because of what might happen and then the union lives on!
OP There are a huge number of Scots in the UK Armed Forces. This will be thought about and I suspect you'd be given the choice as to what you do with yourselves should the union cease to exist. My advice would be to press on with your application. If you get in and have a job you're in a much better position than if you don't apply because of what might happen and then the union lives on!
Original post by Schleigg
I suspect you'd be given the choice as to what you do with yourselves should the union cease to exist.
I suspect the opposite. The UK's armed forces have whole units of foreigners as well as individuals. At the time of the referendum the SNP's plans for Scotland's forces probably would not have allowed all current military Scots to have taken a place in the new forces. They had an upper limit of 15,000 defence personnel in all services. Wholesale movement of Scots into a Scottish military simply would be too difficult to accommodate. How does a Scottish nuclear submariner keep his job in a non-nuclear Scotland, for instance?
Original post by Good bloke
Those conversations go along the lines of:
NS: We must have a new referendum, ye sassenach *******!
PM: Go away.
NS: We must have a new referendum, ye sassenach *******!
PM: Go away.
What a delight you are.
It's been 5 years already since the last referendum, and during that timeframe the U.K. has changed dramatically. Good luck making the same economic arguments as before, for example, with the pound now worth 50 cents less against the USD than it was back in the day thanks to English nationalism.
You would have to be fundamentally undemocratic to think that it's outlandish for Scotland to want a second independence referendum given the changes that have occurred since the last one and the mere fact alone that we have elected a pro-independence party to government.
But anyway, that aside. OP the truth is that there's simply no way for you to know whether Scotland will be a member of the U.K. long-term but thankfully you have some time to defer that decision and I would suggest that you do that. Another poster has, I think quite correctly, pointed out that Scots would likely still be allowed entry into a U.K. Air Force following independence so even if Scotland does leave the United Kingdom, you would probably still be able to pursue the path that you want for yourself.
Original post by Johnathan94
with the pound now worth 50 cents less against the USD than it was
How is that relevant? The SNP plans to carry on using sterling, and has now admitted it will have no influence on managing it.
Original post by Good bloke
How is that relevant? The SNP plans to carry on using sterling, and has now admitted it will have no influence on managing it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48069470
Why is it that passionate political statements almost always correlates inversely with knowledge of politics?
Original post by Johnathan94
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48069470
Why is it that passionate political statements almost always correlates inversely with knowledge of politics?
Why is it that passionate political statements almost always correlates inversely with knowledge of politics?
You tell me. The SNP policy decision is to move away from sterling 'as soon as practicable' after independence but dependent on the six economic tests. The devil is in those tests, as one of them involves demonstrating deconvergence from the UK economy. How can a small state, 55% of whose GDP comes from exports, and 60% of those exports are with one other country (and growing), hope to decouple its economy from that one state quickly?
What is more, imports from the UK are higher (and also growing) and treble trade with the rest of the world. Scotland is not just coupled with the UK, economically, it is completely integrated.
It is likely to take decades to achieving deconvergence, and may never happen.
(edited 4 years ago)
Isn’t that decoupling argument one of the pillars of the case for Brexit? That despite an overwhelming amount of our trade currently going into one market, we can very quickly diversify that economic output? I don’t know that it’s possible but if it’s good enough for the Tories to convince England of Brexit, then I’ll put that same faith in Scotland. ☺️
Original post by Johnathan94
Isn’t that decoupling argument one of the pillars of the case for Brexit? That despite an overwhelming amount of our trade currently going into one market, we can very quickly diversify that economic output? I don’t know that it’s possible but if it’s good enough for the Tories to convince England of Brexit, then I’ll put that same faith in Scotland. ☺️
Do we share a currency with the EU?
Original post by Good bloke
Do we share a currency with the EU?
Of course not but that's not relevant to the the topic at hand. The triggering of a new currency is a response to decoupling in the case of the SNP's plans, the point you made (without any substantiation) is that it will decades to decouple and I said that the UK government's current view is that rapid divergence from a single trading partner is a possible because their Brexit vision is predicated on it. So I'll say again, if it's possible for the UK then why wouldn't it be possible for a member of that union like Scotland?
I should say though, my support for Scottish independence isn't predicated on that being true. I would vote for Scottish independence even if it were demonstrably true that it would cause economic harm to Scotland. I would especially do that after 2016 because as a result of English nationalism, in the context of the global economy, my assets and the salary in my pocket is worth significantly less. If that can be inflicted on the Scottish people because of the will of other nation's then I don't see why we can't do it to ourselves and at least get something we want in return as opposed to the festering dumpster fire of Brexit.
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