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British Conservative but American Democrat?

satsun

Why do British Tories seem a lot like moderate American Democrats?

(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 1

username1539513

Not really, our “Conservatives” are relatively left wing, to the extent they make the Republicans look far right

Reply 2

fallen_acorns

British Torries of today, are very very similar in policy to democrats of Obama/Clinton eras.

Even if you look at the more radical democrats of today, Bernie types, most of their radical demands (free healthcare, same sex marriage, abortion laws, gun control) are all things that the tory party supports.

Reply 3

Napp

In fairness they are pretty hard right these days, i wont go as far as saying far right simply as it is used as a synonym for neo-nazi these days (for whatever reason)

Reply 4

Rakas21

The bulk of even moderate Republicans are somewhat akin to our ERG MP's who make up a minority of Tory MP's (we have nobody comparable to Ted Cruz for example who is a proper hard right Republican). The bulk of Tory MP's are akin to the right of the Democrats (southern Democrats) and a small number are simply Liberal Democrats without a US analogue (Nick Bowles, Ken Clarke ect..).

Reply 5

username2998742

Judging by this graph from 2017 I think not

Original post by fallen_acorns

same sex marriage ... things that the tory party supports.

@Connor27 you seen this :eek4:

Reply 6

username1539513

Original post by Glaz

Judging by this graph from 2017 I think not

@Connor27 you seen this :eek4:

I don’t think this graph is particularly accurate, you can hardly call a party that supports universal healthcare, abortions and same sex marriage that far right

Reply 7

username2998742

Where would you put it? I didn't think that the Tories were left wing?

Reply 8

username1539513

Original post by Glaz

Where would you put it? I didn't think that the Tories were left wing?

I would say more torwards the centre, it’s nowhere near UKIP or DUP and certainly not more right than DUP considering DUP is quite stringently opposed to both abortion and same sex marriage. Whoever made this graph hasn’t a clue about the parties

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 9

fallen_acorns

Original post by Glaz

Judging by this graph from 2017 I think not

@Connor27 you seen this :eek4:

That graph is utter bolloks. Who made it and what were their justifications? The only possible way I can see some of it making sense is if its entirely about economic policy. Otherwise there is no way you can put the conservatives as more right-wing than UKIP/DUP on soical policy.. and the SNP being further left than Labour? Maybe before Corbyn, but not now?Also the idea that the conservatives are further to the right, than labour are to the left is madness in 2019. I can only presume that graph was made by a Labour voter/supporter/campaigner who wanted to make tories look far right, and labour moderate.

As for your other comment.. It was the conservative party who legalized same sex marriage. Labour had 13 years in power to do it and didn't.. for all his problems it was cameron who finally made it legal.

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 10

fallen_acorns

Original post by Glaz

Judging by this graph from 2017 I think not

@Connor27 you seen this :eek4:

I've found the article you pulled that picture from.

The second picture in the artcile is also very important for context:

What you can see pretty clearly from that is how far off their mid-point is from the reality of british people and society. According to them, The majority of Labour goverements/parties have been solidly right-wing authoritarian parties, and only 3 times have Labour actually been a left-wing party.

The reality is that if you made this, and you removed the bias. The center lines should be roughly in line with the mass of Labour red-dots around 2005-2006. That is pretty much the center of british politics. Blair was a very succesfull centerist and it puts most labour goverments slightly to the left of center, and most tory goverments slightly to the right.

Doing that gives you an accurate representation of whats happened with Corbyn. He has shifted the party really far left (great for those who support him). If you compare him to blair, the difference is pronounced. But the tory party hasn't changed much at all over the past 20 years. They are largely still the same, a little more liberal socially, and a little more conservative economically.

Honestly, the chart is about as biased as you can get, and the only justification I can see for showing it that way, is that its a Corbyn/momentum supporter who wants to frame the graph around Corbyn being a moderate left-wing individual, while very other party, even the majority of Labour goverments, every other party is off to the right..

Anyone with an anounce of political knowledge knows that's not true.

Reply 11

Pencil

Original post by Glaz

Judging by this graph from 2017 I think not

@Connor27 you seen this :eek4:

The Conservatives are economically right wing, believing that wealth trickles down from the rich who then go on to support the poor (disregarding the fact that the poor then suffer from the rich's greed). That's why they are the party of the "wealth creators" as Boris likes to say, believing in less tax, less welfare and less public services. The Conservative economic view is very similar to the Republic Party's in the USA.

Socially, I would say the Conservatives are centre left (equivalent to New Labour) - banning abortion, maintaining strict gun control, legalising gay marriage, legalising cannabis for medical reasons, giving 0.7% GDP in foreign aid, having soft laws with soft sentencing, supporting the environment, being the nanny state (thinking sugar tax), raising the minimum wage and maintaining a 2004 ban on fox hunting.

(edited 4 years ago)

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