Could Women Cope With The Amount Of Sexual Rejection Men Cope With ? Watch

Eveiebaby
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(Original post by Smaug123)
I'm forever slightly surprised by people's strong insistence on loyalty and monoamory. Each to their own, I suppose.
I'm not intentionally trying to sound like a prude, but I've changed over time. When I was younger I was a lot less bothered about monogamy, but personally now as I enter my 30s, I'm subconciously looking for someone who will make a good long term partner and father. It makes sense that men who exercise restraint and selectiveness when it comes to animal instincts, are a LOT more attractive than someone who is thirsty and doesn't care where the attention comes from. His attention is way too fickle to make a good partner.
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Smaug123
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(Original post by Eveiebaby)
I'm not trying to be traditional and compliant, but I've changed over time. When I was younger I was a lot less bothered about monogamy, but personally now as I enter my 30s, I'm subconciously looking for someone who will make a good long term partner and father. It makes sense that men who exercise restraint and selectiveness when it comes to animal instincts, is a LOT more attractive than someone who looks like they're obviously trying to get as much attention as possible from ALL women.
To you, it makes sense: you're looking for that sort of person. Some other people are not looking for that sort of person :P again, de gustibus non est disputandum. My point was simply that the "get attention from all women" behaviour is biologically explicable.
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Eveiebaby
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(Original post by Smaug123)
To you, it makes sense: you're looking for that sort of person. Some other people are not looking for that sort of person :P again, de gustibus non est disputandum. My point was simply that the "get attention from all women" behaviour is biologically explicable.
I think that I'm trying to explain one of the (many reasons) why certain approaches that men use to engage women have less success than others. The thread is about coping with sexual rejection and the differences between men and women in that respect.

The answers are going to be very generalized because everyone is an individual, but the chasm between goal-seeking sexual behaviour and putting high value on selectivity would be problematic.

The OP's question may be quite meaningless to some men and women quite simply because quantity (rather than quality) of sexual partners might not be an internal validation of success to them.

Anyway...I'll stop dominating the thread and lurk everyone elses' posts.
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MattyR2895
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(Original post by Eveiebaby)
Interesting article. But it also explains why I prefer to avoid the men that exhibit that type of goal seeking behaviour and instead initiate with men who are less bold. Maybe they have less testosterone, maybe they don't.

I know one thing, though and that is that I dislike testosterone driven behaviour in general. Traditional "lads" are such a turn off to me. Straight up, I PREFER men who are less sex driven; they make much more rounded and loyal long term partners in my opinion. The last thing I want if I'm for whatever reason, temporarily incapacitated and not able to be sexual is to worry about them being so desperate and selfish that they feel the need to sleep with someone behind my back. Hell to the no.
A very bigoted opinion. Where is the direct link between a man's testosterone and his inability to control his sexual urges. By your logic, women should have next to no sex drive, since they tend to have very low levels of testosterone. You're making a generalisation that men cannot control themselves, that we are just animals, unless we are deficient in the very thing that makes us men (testosterone). You can prefer whatever kind of man you want, but what you said is just sexist.
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Observatory
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(Original post by Eveiebaby)
I think that I'm trying to explain one of the (many reasons) why certain approaches that men use to engage women have less success than others. The thread is about coping with sexual rejection and the differences between men and women in that respect.
I think people put too much emphasis on "PUA" techniques as opposed to mindset. It's basically cold calling for dating: it doesn't really matter what your offer is, if you ask 1,000 people then a handful of them are going to say yes.

How well you read the script might increase the success rate from 0.5% to 2% but this is not mainly why PUA works. It works mainly by persuading shy guys to try asking out 1,000 people instead of 0. From their point of view the fact that you would reject them every time is irrelevant because the whole approach is just to throw out as many lines as possible and see which one gets bites. If you say no, they just cross you off the list and move on as quickly as possible.

I suspect the reason PUA is surrounded by so much misogyny is that it's very painful to be rejected 990 times unless you place absolutely no value at all on the opinion of the person doing the rejecting. It also tends to attract people who are not interested in long term relationships at all and IME most men actually are, even if it's not the only thing they're interested in.
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Eveiebaby
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(Original post by MattyR2895)
A very bigoted opinion. Where is the direct link between a man's testosterone and his inability to control his sexual urges. By your logic, women should have next to no sex drive, since they tend to have very low levels of testosterone. You're making a generalisation that men cannot control themselves, that we are just animals, unless we are deficient in the very thing that makes us men (testosterone). You can prefer whatever kind of man you want, but what you said is just sexist.
I said that I dislike testosterone-driven behaviour. I was careful not to say that I dislike men with high testosterone. It's the behaviour I don't like. Not the biology.

As a woman I actually have high levels of testosterone but I'm not covered in hair or rampantly sex driven; it doesn't manifest how you'd expect in every individual. Testosterone affects people differently.
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miser
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(Original post by Observatory)
I think people put too much emphasis on "PUA" techniques as opposed to mindset. It's basically cold calling for dating: it doesn't really matter what your offer is, if you ask 1,000 people then a handful of them are going to say yes.

How well you read the script might increase the success rate from 0.5% to 2% but this is not mainly why PUA works. It works mainly by persuading shy guys to try asking out 1,000 people instead of 0. From their point of view the fact that you would reject them every time is irrelevant because the whole approach is just to throw out as many lines as possible and see which one gets bites. If you say no, they just cross you off the list and move on as quickly as possible.

I suspect the reason PUA is surrounded by so much misogyny is that it's very painful to be rejected 990 times unless you place absolutely no value at all on the opinion of the person doing the rejecting. It also tends to attract people who are not interested in long term relationships at all and IME most men actually are, even if it's not the only thing they're interested in.
In the past 10 years or so PUA has moved away a lot from purely scripted approaches (if it was ever that really). Pretty much ever since The Game came out, which made the same criticisms you make above, calling "canned" routine users 'robots', it's become seen as an unfashionable (and unsuccessful) way of going about things.

Some people still use 'routines' of course, but mostly it is about mindset, like you mention.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Eveiebaby)
If you're being a lot more selective and spontaneous, there's just something more genuine, personal and real about the interaction. It's all about intention really. Are you looking to get a number just because you want to have the self validation that you can get it OR do you really want to connect with that particular person and get to know them?
Which still has the risk of rejection and said rejection is made worse than if it was just some random person.

(Original post by crozibear96)
Maybe if some guys wouldn't just throw their **** at anyone with two X chromosomes and a pulse, they wouldn't get rejected as much.
Well if I do nothing nothing happens. No one has ever tried to initiate anything with me so what I am supposed to do? Also the guys who will go out to a bar/club and attempt to get laid with a total stranger (basically 'throw their **** at anyone with two X chromosomes' will have much much more confidence than I do as I can never do that. They are probably better at dealing with rejection than someone like me anyway who very rarely asks anyone and never gets asked by anyone. What else am I supposed to do? Even if I did want casual sex with strangers from a club I can't just wait to be approached since it doesn't work like that (supposedly).

What else are we supposed to do?
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Eveiebaby
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Which still has the risk of rejection.
Of course, but I think it's a more calculated and considered risk because you're not shooting a hundred arrows blind hoping for a target that you don't even know you want.
It's pretty easy to see if someone isn't into you after talking to them for a while. I personally wouldn't take a risk and ask to hang out with someone new unless I was pretty sure they were going to say yes.

Shotgun approach is more risky, comes across badly (in a lot of cases) and can cause some women to become increasingly hypervigilant/suspicious and more likely to shoot other men down in future, which feeds the whole rejection cycle. I don't think it creates a trusting vibe between men and women.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Eveiebaby)

It's pretty easy to see if someone isn't into you after talking to them for a while. I personally wouldn't take a risk and ask to hang out with someone new unless I was pretty sure they were going to say yes.

.
Well in that case I may as well just give up.
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don100
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Women never evolved rejection coping mechanisms since they rarely have to experience it or more to a point, it's like with men, rejection is like 100's of paper cuts, with women it's one huge cut.

Last week I was chatting to a girl in a cafe. A few minutes in, she dropped that she had a boyfriend. I was just chatting but you know what women are like nowdays, they are outright crippled by basic social interaction with people they don’t already know. So I looked at my wrist and half-joked, "Okay well it was nice talking to you, but I have to go."


Her instant response: "Hey I'm sorry but I have to go right now." She said this with a straight face. Her brain completely ignored the fact that I declared my intention to exit the conversation first.

Women just have to announce their rejection of a man FIRST, in order to retain their perceived mastery of the interaction. But I suppose rejection for a woman is like a nuclear warhead detonation.

That's why women prefer the tried and tested scenario of a man walking up to her and she’s free to reject him with no more hesitation than she would reject a beggar asking for change.

Every guy should reject a woman at least once and legitimately attractive women who they'd otherwise screw. Your D**K is going to be unhappy about that little moment of sexual suicide, but your brain will grateful for the knowledge gained. A man demonstrating that he's not interested in a woman's sexual advances is the most humbling experience a woman can have.

This also goes on in every facet of their lives as well. Go tell a woman at the office that she's wrong and her work sucks. Watch the sparks fly, they can't handle rejection in any form as they've been coddled and pushed along their whole lives
.

I’m always reminded of that episode of ”Beauty And The Geek” where the “beauties” were tasked to go into a club and approach guys and get their numbers, without the help of makeup and “fashionable” clothing (no skirts, tanktops or anything like that)

These girls were in tears after half an hour

Of course, they needed a contrived situation like a reality show to force that experience on them, and one three hour session of that doesn’t equate to every weekend for 10 years.
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Eveiebaby
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(Original post by don100)
Women never evolved rejection coping mechanisms since they rarely have to experience it or more to a point, it's like with men, rejection is like 100's of paper cuts, with women it's one huge cut.

Last week I was chatting to a girl in a cafe. A few minutes in, she dropped that she had a boyfriend. I was just chatting but you know what women are like nowdays, they are outright crippled by basic social interaction with people they don’t already know. So I looked at my wrist and half-joked, "Okay well it was nice talking to you, but I have to go."


Her instant response: "Hey I'm sorry but I have to go right now." She said this with a straight face. Her brain completely ignored the fact that I declared my intention to exit the conversation first.

[COLOR=#000000]Women just have to announce their rejection of a man FIRST, in order to retain their perceived mastery of the interaction.
Actually it sounds like she was being defensive because she felt like you were hitting on her and she felt uncomfortable so she was making an excuse to leave. It's nothing to do with her trying to assert some sort of social dominance.
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Eveiebaby
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(Original post by don100)
The worst type of bullies are those people who act like they're the victim and that is women to a tee.

Secondly I'm quite positive she would not have been defensive if Channing Tatum was talking to her.

Fact is men are nothing but clowns to most women. One of the questions I used to ask was “Do you need a man?” Out of the dozens of times I asked it, not a single girl answered yes. There is definitely not a single woman alive in the Western world who needs a man.
So what, this woman was not interested, she had a boyfriend. There will be others that are single and interested.

You'd probably find an excuse to shut the conversation down if you weren't attracted to the person or were attached.

If you had asked, do you want a man rather than do you need a man, I'd think that you'd probably get a more positive response, bar our lady loving sisters.
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LTG
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Most women could not cope with the social pressure put on men from an early age.
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cole-slaw
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(Original post by don100)
A guy called Warren Farrell tried a role-reversal that will terrify most women in which men took on a women’s role, and women took on a man’s role. The feminists LOVED him for the role reversal experiments he did with men, and HATED him for the role reversal experiments he did with women.

Role Reversal For Women

He had the women ask men out. Women had to call the man, plan the evening, and initiate every step of the date.

The men were told to be entirely passive, putting the burden of the evening on the woman. It was up to the women to risk rejection for any physical or sexual contact she wanted, with the men accepting or rejecting the women’s advances.

Many of the women said they were unable to listen to what the man was saying because they were so worried about getting rejected. Instead of connecting with men, the women found themselves constantly thinking “How do I get this guy not to say no?”

Every time I’ve told this story to man, he’s burst out laughing in recognition. Just as most women worry about their looks, most men worry about getting rejected.

Role Reversal For Men

Warren had men participate in a beauty contest. Male contestants had to present themselves shirtless, and have women vote on who was the most attractive.

At first, the men loved the attention. However, as men began to get voted off for being less attractive than other contestants, the men became self-conscious. They felt hurt and rejected when they were voted off.

After the experiment, the men had a greater understanding of the insecurity women experience around their body.

Double Standards

While the men were willing to do the beauty contest, most of feminists, even after watching the men go through the beauty contest, walked out when it came time to participate in the role-reversal date.

While women’s issues with body image are constantly explored in mass media, very little has been written about men’s issues with rejection that isn’t demeaning or shaming.

The only group that treat’s men’s fear of rejection with anything resembling empathy is the pick up industry. It’s not surprising given the amount of rejection men face.

If women expect men to understand their struggles with body image, they should also seek to understand men’s issues with rejection and game.

Most women who criticize men’s pick-up tactics have never tried to approach a stranger, win their trust, and ask them out. My intention isn’t to give up roles, but simply to understand the others experience better and I wouldn’t want to change either.

What rejection? Speak for yourself.

You need to rephrase your question: could attractive people cope with the amount of sexual rejection that desperate unattractive people get?
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Zarek
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Not sure about this really:

1) women do suffer rejection. Ok maybe they more often make it patently obvious they want to be asked out and then experience passive rejection rather than having the angst of doing the asking. But women do sometimes ask guys out and anyway I'd sooner be in the driving seat. For both sexes rejection hurts

2) I think the attractiveness thing has more legs. I recollect at a management training event after some silly drinking the girl getting the guys to line up so they could select the best arse. To be honest I found it pretty demeaning and annoying. This said guys do get a fair degree of angst if deemed ugly *******s.

On average I'm happier to be a guy.
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cole-slaw
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(Original post by Wade-)
That's like trying to justify islamaphobia by saying 'maybe if some muslims didn't fly planes into buildings maybe the wouldn't be abused as much'


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Probably the stupidest analogy of the day, congratulations.

Islamophobia: blaming SOME muslims for the actions of OTHER muslims.

sexual rejection: desperate men suffering from their OWN actions.


You see the difference? One is about what YOU do, one is about what OTHER PEOPLE do.
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xloichan
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(Original post by don100)
I just said that I was not making a move. I was making conversation.

The question now is can the apple-user-experience provide the feeling of being harassed through an iPhone app. Perhaps women could connect their smartphone to a wearable webcam that scans for men’s wandering eyes and calculates their path of vision. Too long on a random boob, and we'll get jail time

Last year France passed a new law about this. Cat-calls, whistling, compliments (wtf), and yes, even just looking at a woman is considered sexual harassment. I really hope people start fighting back against this crap.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...iminal-offence

I'm actually surprised more men haven't turned to just masturbating and bypassed intercourse altogether.




Ok - Just let's say your right and I was hitting on her. Problem is whether you like it or not, f*ckable women get a lot of unwanted attention from unattractive men,

The attention you or other women get from hotter f*ckable men is not something you’d complain about but something women take for granted.

When women hit the wall – that is, when mother nature humbles women like nothing else, permanently - and women get no attention from men whatsoever - then women all of a sudden realize how much they love being objectified. And instead of shaming men for objectifying women, they shame men for not objectifying them any longer.

Women have made it very clear that being nice, chivalrous, and patient was not the way to have sex with them. So now women get more of what they sleep with, and less of what they friend-zone. Then they complain about ending up with what they slept with, instead of what they friend-zoned.

Like when girls complain that their boyfriends are "emotionally unavailable".

"Sh*t, honey, if he were "emotionally available" he would never have become your boyfriend in the first place; he'd be some "nice" beta orbiter that you'd never dream of sleeping with in a million years.



I did ask 'whether they wanted a man' “I don’t know” were the main answers I got. Only in a few instances did a woman outright say yes.

Girls are brainwashed to believe that they don’t need men and that the key to their happiness is self-empowerment.

Men are a distraction to women. Men have become an utterly replaceable and expendable commodity in a girl’s life. Women don’t seek out comfort or stability in men anymore—they seek entertainment.

The other side of this coin is that we no longer need women. We don’t need them to maintain our home or cook good meals for us. We don’t need them in an age where having children is no longer important or valued.

Whatever natural connection that once existed between the sexes has now been severed. Neither sex needs each other so we dedicate ourselves to corporations, entertainment, and base pleasures instead, and this is a great tragedy that most people believe is a sign of progress, a cause for celebration.
Lol if neither sex 'needs' each other than why are you complaining? No one has any advantage.

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Dr Pesto
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(Original post by Eveiebaby)
The thing with a shotgun approach is that it quickly becomes apparent to the person being approached that they aren't being appreciated as an individual. Knowing that you're being approached for a "result" rather than because someone actually sees something unique about you as a person can make you feel inconsequential... just a number. Noone wants to feel like that.

You can tell when guys approach with that kind of mentality. The conversation is very one way (or it feels like it's being steered aggressively rather than flowing organically) and the content is usually hackneyed, clichéd, generalized....a bit rehearsed. A spiele.

If you're being a lot more selective and spontaneous, there's just something more genuine, personal and real about the interaction. It's all about intention really. Are you looking to get a number just because you want to have the self validation that you can get it OR do you really want to connect with that particular person and get to know them?
Not if the person approaching is good enough at it.
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Smaug123
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(Original post by cole-slaw)
Probably the stupidest analogy of the day, congratulations.

Islamophobia: blaming SOME muslims for the actions of OTHER muslims.

sexual rejection: desperate men suffering from their OWN actions.


You see the difference? One is about what YOU do, one is about what OTHER PEOPLE do.
Surely the sexual rejection thing is cultural. It's simply a thing that men have to ask women out, and much less so vice versa (do correct me if I'm wrong), and are punished for asking out someone who doesn't want them to ask them out - that's nothing to do with the desperate man's actions. It's not their fault that society is set up so that they must make the advances, and that British culture isn't very good at saying no to things. (We don't really have a concept of the reply "No, I don't want to; it's nothing personal" to the request "I'd like a cup of tea please": any such "no, I don't want to" reply stings. Specialise to the case "I'd like to go out with you".)
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