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    (Original post by shazy2014)
    Hello
    I'm thinking of becoming Shia because I believe in the ahlebait and the should have been leadership of Ali and Hussein
    But I would just like to know anything else that I should know like general knowledge on how Shias are different
    Can anyone help me out?
    My family from the side of my mother are Shia, there isn't any difference except that some of them go to a 'matam', as we Arabs call it to remember the days ahlelbait were killed/murdered, just like muharam. And on those days, people go on the streets but some of the young men like to show off and would 'whip' themselves on the shoulders or head. It's bullsh*t and they'll eventually realize how naive they were, women on the other hand wouldn't participate in that activity.
    But you could be a Shia and not be part of any of what I mentioned above.
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    Salamunalaykum,

    I've written (this is my own work, based on the works of others, and hence not just a copy and paste), an answer to the issue of Ali ibn abi Talib naming his son Abu Bakr.

    You may read this reply during Eid, and hence i want to wish you Eid Mubarak! May Allah azwj have mercy on us, accept our good deeds, and guide us all.

    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    x
    (Original post by King7)
    x


    Also could you please demonstrate that the kunya Abu Bakr was common amongst the people? I do appreciate that might be difficult since there were no statistics of names and nicknames back then, but perhaps you could show me examples of multiple Abu Bakrs during the time of the Prophet (SAW), before the time of the Prophetic call, and very soon after?

    [/QUOTE]





    Abu Bakr, son of Ali (r.a)

    My response:

    Before formulating any answer, it is necessary to first try to understand what 'Abu Bakr' means, and what the title in a wider sense, denotes. Firstly, Abu Bakr is a Qunya. It is a title given to somebody. Abu Bakr's real name was not actually Abu Bakr. Rather, we hear reports that his name was Abdullah, some say also say Atiq. That is what his father named him, and Abu Bakr was a title given to him after.

    What does Abu Bakr mean ?

    "A kunya may also be a nickname expressing the attachment of an individual to a certain thing, as in Abu Bakr, "father of the camel foal", given because of this person's love for camels."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunya_(Arabic)

    It's not entirely surprising for a Qunya to develop for those living in arabia at that time, where the use of Camels were really widespread and an almost essential part of day to day life arabs, which made reference to love of camels, or being the father of a Camel Foal. We find that there is also another Abu Bakr - a notable one, in books of history, who converted to Islam and later apostates, who was called Abu Bakr bin Sha’oub. According to Ibn Hajar (quoting Ibn Hisham). Abu Bakr bin Sha'oub also fought against the muslims in the battle of Badr.

    You find anti-shia websites make a rather logically erroneous claim that, because we only find two famous Abu Bakr's in books of history [two that sunni's will agree on], it means that these names were only exclusively used for these two, and Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s either named his son Abu Bakr after the kaffir apostate, or the first Caliph. And thus, they argue, we shia's defy reason to suggest he would have named it after the apostate, and hence, it must surely have been a name for Abu Bakr.

    There are a number of problems with this line of reasoning:

    1. The very fact there is another prominent Abu Bakr is of great importance. It means that indeed, Abu Bakr was not a Qunya that was only ever associated with the son of Abdallāh bin Abī Quḥāfah, rather it was given to someone unrelated to him, unconnected to him, who may also due to his day to day life, his work , or any other reason, develop the nick name of Abu Bakr (father of the young camel). It lends evidence to the notion that in a land where camels were so prevalent, it is not surprising for others to also be dubbed with this nick-name.

    2. It is highly possible that there may have been, in those days, many others across Arabia , who reared camels, and perhaps due to this, were subsequently given the nick-name of 'Abu Bakr ' , however, were not as notable, and not as famous, not as central to Islam and not as prominent. You see, not only do we not know the actual names of many of the companions of Muhammed s.a.w (large swathes are unknown in name), we also do not really know the names of the majority of arabs at the time. All having names enables us to do is know the prominent ones, and it lends evidence that such names were also common among others who were not as prominent and whose names are not recorded.

    3. It is also possible that, due to the prominence of the famous or notable Abu Bakr's, the nick-name became more popular. If you consider , again, that we are talking about a land where camels are prevalent, it may have been the fact that those who already had the nick name of Abu Bakr (father of a young camel) may have caused arabian culture to begin to adopt such a title/nick name more commonly for those perhaps who had a vocation where they worked with camels closely, or were known for their love of camels. This may not have been due to naming people in honour of Abu Bakr (though it did occur i won't doubt), but rather, the idea of giving a nick name of Abu Bakr to people who were associated with camels/young camels as a nick name , in and of itself may have been more popular.

    4. According to some, (another) Abu Bakr son of Hazim al-Ansari who had lived in the time of both the Prophet (peace be upon him and his pure family) and Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s was an Arab originally from Yemen and a companion of Ali ibn abi Talib a.s

    4. The nick-name 'Abu Hurairah' i.e father of cats, would have in my own humble opinion, been of a greater weight in proving exclusivity, rather than father of a young camel, in arabia, a land full of camels. Even then, it would not be sufficient.

    Did Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s name his son Abu Bakr?

    In todays society, you often find people naming their children Abu Bakr. Thus, they believe Abu Bakr has always been a name you are given at birth. Many shia's and sunni's , and perhaps even non-muslims who study the life of the first Caliph themselves may be surprised to find out that his real name was not Abu Bakr. His father did not name him Abu Bakr - as stated at the beginning of this post.

    The crux of this argument relies on the notion that Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s literally named his son 'Abu Bakr'. If one can prove that actually, his birth name was not Abu Bakr, it lends evidence to the notion that this was a Qunya - a title, given to him, and not what he was named from birth. The anti-shia website claims that the fact that Abu Bakr was a Qunya, and not a name, means that by Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s naming his son Abu Bakr, it almost exclusively means it was him. I have already touched on the Qunya of Abu Bakr, and how even then it would not be the case.
    However, do we have evidence that the birth name of Abu Bakr, the son of Ali ibn Abi talib a.s, was actually not Abu Bakr [thus lending evidence to the argument that it was a Qunya later given]?

    There is certianly evidence to suggest Abu Bakr was not a birth-name
    There is disagreement in terms of the actual name of Abu Bakr the son of Ali ibn abi talib a.s, suffice to say, the main point is, there is evidence that was not his birth name.

    Ibn al-Sabbagh al-Maliki reported: "…and Muhammad al-Asghar whose secondary name (i.e. Kunya) was Abu Bakr and [another son of Amir al-Mu'mineen] Abdullah. They had been martyred with their brother Hussain in Karbala. Their mother is Laila daughter of Masoud…" (al-Fusul al-Muhimmah, vol. 1 p. 644)

    Al-Masudi, a famous historian, has reported that Ali ibn Abi Talib had: "eleven sons, al-Hassan and al-Hussain their mother was Fatima daughter of Allah's Apostle peace be upon him and his family" further on he mentioned: "…and Muhammad al-Asghar, his secondary name was Abu Bakr…" (al-Tanbih wa-l-Ashraf, p. 258).

    This renowned shia scholar, al-Sheikh al-Mufid has said: "Amir al-Mu'mineen may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him had a total of twenty-seven sons and daughters…" further on he mentioned: "Muhammad al-Asghar, whose secondary name was Abu Bakr, and Ubaidullah, both had been martyred alongside their brother Hussain peace be upon him in Taff, their mother is Laila daughter of Masoud al-Darimiyyah." (al-Irshad, vol. 1, p. 354).

    Abu Hayyan al-Tawhidi: "…from Laila daughter of Masoud [Imam Ali] had Ubaidullah who is Abu Bakr…" (al-Basa'ir wa-l-Dhakha'ir, vol. 1, p. 214).

    Ibn A'tham al-Kufi states: "… al-Hussain's brothers thereupon came forward. They were intent on sacrificing their lives for his sake.Abu Bakr son of Ali, whose name was Abdullah, was the first to come forward. His mother was Laila daughter of Masoud…" (al-Futouh, vol. 5, p. 112).

    al-Mujdi has reported: "Abu Bakr, whose name was Abdullahwas killed during the [battle] of Taff along with Abu Ali, who is Ubaidullah. Their mother is [Laila] al-Nahsha'iya al-Darimiyyah (i.e. Laila daughter of Masoud)." (Ansab al-Talibiyyin, p. 198).

    Closing points:

    Just as Abu Bakr's father may not have given him the Qunya Abu Bakr , nor the father of Abu Bakr bin Sha’oub named him Abu Bakr, nor any of the other Abu Bakrs, who had this nick-name at that time, before that time, and after that time, similarly, Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s named his son either Muhammed Al-Asghar, Abaidullah, or Abdullah. That was the birth name given, and the Qunya was not necessarily given to him by Ali ibn Abi talib a.s, and thus, the Qunya may have been something later given to Muhammed Al Asghar/ Abaidullah/ Abdullah.

    Furthermore, the very fact the term 'Abu Bakr' means 'father of the young camel' in a land full of camels, coupled with the fact there are names of others who also held this Qunya (nick-name per say), means that it is also highly likely many others not prominent or notable who we do not know the names of (majority of the sahaba, and majority of arabs at the time) may have also held such a Qunya. If you consider this in terms of probability, in a population , the chances of an Abu Bakr being notable is of a certian percent, dependent on the number of Abu Bakrs dubbed with such a Qunya at the time, and a number of complex factors. Thus, those Abu Bakrs we do then know , and do have the names of, only means of the population of Abu Bakrs existing, these are the ones who gained notability. It thus means it is highly likely many other Abu Bakrs existed at the time , and a few then gained that notability. Only having a number of Abu Bakrs recorded/noted down absoutely does not mean only that number existed at the time.

    It is not difficult to see that in a land full of camels, why one would be given that nick-name. Additionally, it is also not difficult to see why the qunya Abu Bakr perhaps - and i am not saying this is the case- but perhaps grew prominence as i argued before, not out of honour of Abu Bakr, but because a famous personality who has a nick name may cause culture of the time to begin to make such a nick-name more popular. Yes, it could be that in cases it was in honour of the caliph, but it is highly likely that again, in a land full of camels, with very famous people having a certain nick name that is fairly concordant with life at the time (living in a land full of camels) the nick name itself became more popular as a way to perhaps refer to people who had a love for camels, or worked with camels.

    Thus, for anyone to say that Ali ibn Abi Talib named his son Abu Bakr, is a false claim. Rather, he named his son Muhammed Al Asghar/ Abaidullah/ Abdullah, and the Qunya 'Abu Bakr' was later given. For anyone to go even further and ignore this, and claim that he named his son Abu Bakr, in honour of the first Caliph, as the absolute truth, makes an even more unsubstantiated claim ignoring the nuances of this paticular discussion.
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    lessee... as far as I know, you should start praying three times a day (instead of five)
    This is not the case. Many shia's seperate their prayers , but we believe that one is also permitted to combine Zuhr and Asr, and Maghrib and Isha, and this is often thus commonly done for ease of the Ummah. I seperate my prayers on many occasions and combine them on many occasions.

    and then, start waiting for the 12th imam to come out of occultation....
    Even sunni muslims are waiting for the Mahdi, who to a number is the twelfth of the 12 caliphs prophecised by the Prophet s.a.w, though not the twelfth imam a.s of the ahlulbayt asws of Muhammed s.a.w

    in the meantime, start imitating some grand ayatollah (marjah' : a list of them here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_Maraji
    best
    Yes, and i believe this is one of the strengths of shia Islam. Following a scholar who has spent decades studying, and decades after that doing further study, of whom only a special few are granted the ability to be emulated or choose that path.
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    Salamunalaykum! Eid Mubarak brother!

    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    It was a kunya but later on developed into a name.
    So my question still stands, and I'd appreciate any references of his name.
    ps: if it is a kunya then it is even worse (how can offspring of the infallible develop the characteristics of a fallible usurper)
    If you refer to the post i have shown earlier, i conclusively prove that Abubakr Ibn Ali was not named that as a name by his father, Ali ibn abi Talib a.s, and rather still at that point in time, it was a Qunya.

    With due respect, i believe your use of fallible/infallible is more aimed at in a sense, word play, than anything else. The son of Adam pbuh, and the son of Nuh, pbuh, both sons came from pure fathers, and were astray. Abu Bakr, the son of Ali , however, did not necessarily have to be 'pure' simply due to his father either. However, may Allah azwj be pleased with him, for he was a brave matyr, who layed out his life to defend Hussain a.s, on the plains of Kerbala, against the forces of the handpicked son of Muawiyah , the tyrant, Yazid.

    Directly addressing your point, the Qunya Abu Bakr means father of young camels. Others in Arabia also had this title. It's not surprising, that in a land where you are so dependent on camels, a nick name of father of young camels is used. Therefore there is absolutely no relevance to having this nick name, and resembling someone who had that nick name, or that it means you have the characteristics of that individual.
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    Salamunalaykum brother, and Eid Mubarak!

    (Original post by King7)

    3-The successor (Abu Bakr (RA)) was elected leader by almost all the Sahaaba, including Ali (RA). Likewise Umar (RA), Uthman (RA) and Ali (RA). Many Shi'a say that Ali opposed all their reigns, but they are fabricated hadith as their Chain of narrations are false and untrue.
    Take a read of the following if you get time:

    Well, i will quote to you the event, narrated by Caliph, Umar ibn Al Khattab, himself and allow you to judge whether people used logic, reason, and outright believed Hz. Abu Bakr was the rightful choice, or whether it was all extremely chaotic, and there was no such consensus:

    Hz.Ummar Ibn Al Khattab narrates[ In Saheeh Al Bukhari]:

    Hz. Umar's quotes will be in red, and are taken from the following hadith:
    http://sunnah.com/bukhari/86/57

    He first states, and makes clear: "One should not deceive oneself by saying that the pledge of allegiance given to Abu Bakr was given suddenly and it was successful"

    If it was so clear Hz. Abu Bakr was the most qualified, one should question why there was so much commotion, disagreement, and infighting.

    He goes on to state: "After we sat for a while, the Ansar's speaker said, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and praising Allah as He deserved, he added, 'To proceed, we are Allah's Ansar (helpers) and the majority of the Muslim army, while you, the emigrants, are a small group and some people among you came with the intention of preventing us from practicing this matter (of caliphate) and depriving us of it. "

    Rather than acknowledging Hz.Abu Bakr was the best qualified, and that he, or even Umar are the best people, those of the Ansar who gathered at Saqifah with the likes of Abu Bakr and Umar, told these two that they felt they had a right to the posiiton.

    He Further States: "[Abu Bakr said] :" ...I am pleased to suggest that you choose either of these two men, so take the oath of allegiance to either of them as you wish. And then Abu Bakr held my hand and Abu Ubaida"

    Notice, Hz.Abu Bakr never once in his speech states any of the ahadith we tend to see elleged to the Prophet s.a.w, about the superiority of him, or even Hz. Umar. We never see that. In fact, it does not even seem to be the case that the ansaar have ever heard it either.


    He further states "And then one of the Ansar said, 'I am the pillar on which the camel with a skin di ease (eczema) rubs itself to satisfy the itching (i.e., I am a noble), and I am as a high class palm tree! O Quraish. There should be one ruler from us and one from you.'

    You can now see, that the Ansar who gathered at Saqifah rejected Hz.Abu Bakr' statement, and stated one leader should be from them and one from the emigrants.
    He further states: "Then there was a hue and cry among the gathering and their voices rose so that I was afraid there might be great disagreement,"

    Does this sound like a reasoned, well implemented method for choosing a leader for the muslims? To me, it sounds like one chaotic power struggle, and even Hz. Umar attests to the Rucus, chaos, and in-fighting that occured.

    He further states: " so I said,O Abu Bakr! Hold your hand out.' He held his hand out and I pledged allegiance to him, and then all the emigrants gave the Pledge of allegiance and so did the Ansar afterwards. And so we became victorious over Sa`d bin Ubada (whom Al-Ansar wanted to make a ruler)."

    As you can see, peopler weren't told about the prophets alleged words of the superiority of Hz. Abu Bakr, or Hz. Umar. The people didn't even seem to acknowledge it, or remember it. Indeed, there was chaos, a power struggle, and people never at all picked hz.abu bakr due to their belief of his superiority - it seems as though in the chaos, Hz. Umar pledged allegiance to him, and something must have happened in the chaos and confusion we are not told.

    Furthermore, a number of notable companions opposed Hz. Abu Bakr, including Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s, who opposed him until the death of Fatima a.s:

    As Hz. Umar states: "`Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, opposed us,"
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    As a follow up question, how many of Hz. Abu Bakr, Hz, Umar, and Hz. Uthmans children were named Ali, Hasan, or Hussain?
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Unfortunately the differences between Shia and Sunni are so great that it is important to differentiate between the two - there is no such thing as 'just Muslim'; mainly it is ignorant/unlearned Muslims with airy fairy views who tend to say 'I'm not Sunni or Shia, I'm just Muslim', but undoubtedly they follow either Shia Islam or Sunni Islamic practices without realising.
    Oh right
    Thanks
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    This is not the case. Many shia's seperate their prayers , but we believe that one is also permitted to combine Zuhr and Asr, and Maghrib and Isha, and this is often thus commonly done for ease of the Ummah. I seperate my prayers on many occasions and combine them on many occasions.
    I'm just back from Iran (Tabriz and Iranian Azerbaijan), and I noticed that most everyone prayed 3 times a day - the adhan was in fact given just 3 times

    no problem in praying some more, I suppose, so thanks for the info

    (Original post by Tawheed)
    Even sunni muslims are waiting for the Mahdi, who to a number is the twelfth of the 12 caliphs prophecised by the Prophet s.a.w, though not the twelfth imam a.s of the ahlulbayt asws of Muhammed s.a.w
    it appeared to me that the arrival of the mahdi plays a much more important role in Shia Islam than for Sunnis. Perhaps, this is just a personal impression.There is then this whole belief in the (major, minor) occultation of the twelth imam (for Jaafaris ; for Ismailis, of the seventh; for Druzes, the 16th etc) or no occultation at all (Zaydis). Nizaris consider that we have now a 49th imam, the Aga Khan, who is entirely visible). Not an easy problem, overall

    (Original post by Tawheed)
    Yes, and i believe this is one of the strengths of shia Islam. Following a scholar who has spent decades studying, and decades after that doing further study, of whom only a special few are granted the ability to be emulated or choose that path.
    Marja-i Taqlid (source of emulation) is central for Usuli Twelver Shias (but not for the -less numerous- Akhbari Twelvers)
    in any case, here is a more detailed list of "sources of emulation" (including some photos) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_Maraji. Who is your "source of emulation" ?

    best
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    (Original post by King7)
    Brother, lol. You?
    Likewise.

    (Original post by King7)

    1-In my personal opinion, there is NO 'leader' we must obey. What I mean, is that as there is no legitimate Khilafah, there is no actual leader. Today, the Ummah is divided due to Nationalism, Astaghfirullah. However, you can choose to follow scholars who you agree with, i.e. teach Qir'an and Sunnah.
    So you are of the belief that 4:59 doesn't apply to today, despite when mentioning the " obey the ones who are vested with power" in the present tense (minkum)?

    Just 2 quick questions to follow (yes/no):
    1. Does "those vested with power among you" mean the Khalifas ( Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Muwaiyya, Yazeed etc etc) in your opinion?
    2. Do you agree that Quran 4:59 (part about obey the Ulil-Amr) is in present tense?

    (Original post by King7)

    2-Yazid was appointed heir, by his father. I would say this, if they followed his father they should follow him. He wasn't reported to be unfair nor unjust. But, he did commit a huge sin. Allah will be his (and our) judge on Yawm Al Qiyamah.
    Indeed, Allah will judge all.

    Did they have to follow Muawaiiya?

    (Original post by King7)
    3-The successor (Abu Bakr (RA)) was elected leader by almost all the Sahaaba, including Ali (RA). Likewise Umar (RA), Uthman (RA) and Ali (RA). Many Shi'a say that Ali opposed all their reigns, but they are fabricated hadith as their Chain of narrations are false and untrue.
    From what I have read (both shia and sunni sources), certain sahaba like Hazrat Ali wasn't present when Abu Bakr was "elected".

    Umar wasn't elected brother, he was chosen specifically by Abu Bakr.

    Uthman was "elected" by 6 people locked in a house.

    Forgive me for asking many questions.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    As a follow up question, how many of Hz. Abu Bakr, Hz, Umar, and Hz. Uthmans children were named Ali, Hasan, or Hussain?
    A very interesting question.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    As a follow up question, how many of Hz. Abu Bakr, Hz, Umar, and Hz. Uthmans children were named Ali, Hasan, or Hussain?
    I believe none of their children were called those honourable names. But that has no significance or relevance really. Ali named his son after Abu Bakr passed away, I believe, too honour his friend and brother.

    Narrated by Muhammad bin Al-Hanafiya:
    I asked my father (`Ali bin Abi Talib), "Who are the best people after Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) ?" He said, "Abu Bakr." I asked, "Who then?" He said, "Then `Umar. " I was afraid he would say "Uthman, so I said, "Then you?" He said, "I am only an ordinary person."[Sahih Bukhari, no. 3671, Abu Dawud, no. 4629, & others]
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    (Original post by mil88)
    From what I have read (both shia and sunni sources), certain sahaba like Hazrat Ali wasn't present when Abu Bakr was "elected".

    Umar wasn't elected brother, he was chosen specifically by Abu Bakr.

    Uthman was "elected" by 6 people locked in a house.

    Forgive me for asking many questions.
    No need to apologise. Regardless of whether me and you agree or not, we can both agree that having a kind and civilised discussion between Sunni's and Shi'a's and every Muslim is the way forward and too unity. Insha'Allah.

    I will try my best to answer the questions you asked later on, Insha'Allah. As for the last question, I give you this Hadith:

    Narrated by Muhammad bin Al-Hanafiya:
    I asked my father (`Ali bin Abi Talib), "Who are the best people after Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) ?" He said, "Abu Bakr." I asked, "Who then?" He said, "Then `Umar. " I was afraid he would say "Uthman, so I said, "Then you?" He said, "I am only an ordinary person."[Sahih Bukhari, no. 3671, Abu Dawud, no. 4629, & others]
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    (Original post by King7)
    No need to apologise. Regardless of whether me and you agree or not, we can both agree that having a kind and civilised discussion between Sunni's and Shi'a's and every Muslim is the way forward and too unity. Insha'Allah.
    Thank you brother, such words are admirable.

    (Original post by King7)
    I will try my best to answer the questions you asked later on, Insha'Allah. As for the last question, I give you this Hadith:
    Don't worry, take your time.

    (Original post by King7)
    Narrated by Muhammad bin Al-Hanafiya:
    I asked my father (`Ali bin Abi Talib), "Who are the best people after Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) ?" He said, "Abu Bakr." I asked, "Who then?" He said, "Then `Umar. " I was afraid he would say "Uthman, so I said, "Then you?" He said, "I am only an ordinary person."[Sahih Bukhari, no. 3671, Abu Dawud, no. 4629, & others]
    Very intriguing brother. How does this link with the famous hadith from our sunni brethern (The Prophet said, If there were to be a Prophet after me, it would've been Umar Ibn Khattab)? Doesn't this mean Umar should be first, not Abu Bakr?

    To me, this emphasizes the humility and humbleness of Ali. In my eyes (and in sunni hadiths, he is no ordinary man). But nonetheless, I completely respect your beliefs about the 3 caliphs before him. See below:

    This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Shu'ba with the same chain of transmitters. Amir b. Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas reported on the authority of his father that Muawiya b. Abi Sufyin appointed Sa'd as the Governor and said: "What prevents you from abusing Abu Turab (Hadrat 'Ali)?" Whereupon be said: "It is because of three things which I remember Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) having said about him that I would not abuse him, and even if I find one of those three things for me, it would be more dear to me than the red camel.

    I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) say about 'Ali as he left behind him in one of his campaigns (that was Tabuk). Ali said to him: 'Allah's Messenger, you leave me behind along with women and children.' Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to him: 'Aren't you satisfied with being unto me what Aaron was unto Moses, but with this exception that there is no prophet after me?

    ' And I (also) heard him say on the Day of Khaibar: 'I would certainly give this standard to a person who loves Allah and his Messenger, and Allah and his Messenger love him, too.' He (the narrator) said: 'We had been anxiously waiting for it, when he (the Holy Prophet) said: Call 'Ali. He was called and his eyes were inflamed. He applied saliva to his eyes and handed over the standard to him, and Allah gave him victory.

    ' (The third occasion is this) when the (following) verse was revealed: 'Let us summon our children and your children.' Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) called 'Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husain and said: 'O Allah, they are my family.'"

    −Sahih Muslim, 31:5915
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    (Original post by King7)
    No need to apologise. Regardless of whether me and you agree or not, we can both agree that having a kind and civilised discussion between Sunni's and Shi'a's and every Muslim is the way forward and too unity. Insha'Allah.
    Eid mubarak my beloved brother. May Allah azwj bless you for this statement. There will be people who try to convince you other than this, and push you away from tolerance and towards secterianism, keep to what you are on.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    Eid mubarak my beloved brother. May Allah azwj bless you for this statement. There will be people who try to convince you other than this, and push you away from tolerance and towards secterianism, keep to what you are on.
    You too and Jazak'Alah Khair👍
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    (Original post by Tawheed)


    Grand Ayatullah Khamenei


    Ayatullah Khamenei, in his position as the Hakim Al-Shari’i has given a Hukm forbidding blood flagellation. A hukm is binding on all Muslims, unlike a fatwa.


    Question 1450:
    Is hitting oneself with swords halal if it is done in secret? Or is your fatwa in this regard universal?

    Answer:
    In addition to the fact that it is not held in the common view as manifestations of mourning and grief and it has no precedent at the lifetime of the Imams (a.s.) and even after that and we have not received any tradition quoted from the Infallibles (a.s.) about any support for this act, be it privately or publicly, this practice would, at the present time, give others a bad image of our school of thought. Therefore, there is no way that it can be considered permissible.


    Question 1449:
    In commemorating the martyrdom of Imam Husayn (a.s.) on the tenth of Muharram, some people hit themselves with a machete, or walk bare-footed on fire. Such actions defame Shi‘ism and put it in a bad light, if not undermine it. They cause bodily and spiritual harms on these doing it as well. What is your opinion in this matter?

    Answer:
    Any practice that causes bodily harm, or leads to defaming the faith, is haram. Accordingly, the believers have to steer clear of it. There is no doubt that many of these practices besmirch the image of Ahlul Bayt’s (a.s.) School of Thought which is the worst damage and loss.




    Ayatullah Mutahhari





    “Blood matam in its present form does not have a rational or religious basis. It is a clear instance of deviation. At least, in the present day it causes Shi’ism to be questioned. Activities that do not have any relation to the goals of Imam Husayn (a) are razors, blades and locks. Striking the head with a blade is the same. This is a mistake. Some people take blades and strike their heads making blood flow – for what? This action is not mourning.”

    Howzah va Ruhaniyat, v.3

    In his book “Al Malahama Al-Husainiya”, Ayatullah Mutahhari adopts Ayatullah Muhsin Al-Amin’s opnion.




    Grand Ayatullah Khomeini




    “In his name, the Most High. Do not perform blood matam or the likes in the present state. If it does not include forbidden actions or defamation of the religion than there is no problem.

    Istifta’at Imam, v.3, miscellaneous questions, question 37.
    But there is no clear cut evidence from the imams that whipping/bleeding is forbidden.
    It is an issue of ikhtilaaf among shia marjis and among general shias and a large body does support it.
    Here you can see a debate in a shia forum about the act and vast majority agree with it and present their proof (I won't go through translating it but you can let the hawza have a look):
    http://www.yahosein.com/vb/showthread.php?t=205750

    Another discussion proving that the acts are allowed (encouraged even):
    http://gadir.free.fr/Ar/Ehlibeyt/Huseyin/book04/6.htm

    Dozens of fatwas agreeing with the acts:
    http://arabic.shirazi.ir/upload/masa...er/letter1.htm

    Another discussion with majority coming out in defense of the acts of tatbir:
    http://www.yahosein.com/vb/showthread.php?t=130734

    Several fatwas/discussion in agreement with tatbir:
    http://www.yahosein.com/vb/showthread.php?t=178997

    Dozens of fatwas by well known marjas agreeing with tatbir:
    http://www.yahosein.com/vb/showthread.php?t=146082

    Another discussion with proofs supporting tatbir:
    http://www.yahosein.com/vb/showthread.php?t=51447

    More support and proofs for tatbir among shia of this marji:
    http://www.al-hasany.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8431

    More debating about tatbir:
    http://www.she3a-alhsen.com/showthread.php?t=5410

    And this is just a small sample of what I have come across.
    So it might not be as black and white as you'd think.
    I 'd rather you simply say:
    tatbir is an issue of ikhtilaaf among the shia marjais but I don't believe in it and the maraji'i I follow disapprove of it
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    Sunnis also have a lot of love for the Prophet(saw) and his family, so I don’t understand your point .... 😬, but if you feel like the Shi’a belief is correct you should research into it and not care what your family think because at the end of the day everyone is going to be held accountable for their OWN deeds.
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