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Reply 80
Original post by Teknik
Your stupid god does not exist so your point is irrelevent.


I'm glad you said that. i was finding it hard to resist...
Reply 81
Original post by Teknik
No one has the right change the culture Of white countries. Ever heard of the un charter of indigenous rights ? If Muslims think they are free to change our country then you are proving why they should not be allowed to mgirate here. Your like a big walking warning sign. And sharia and Islam is an affront to democracy so your a complete contradiction.


This is hardly a situation akin to the Native Americans or Australian Aborigines, what exactly is an indigenous Briton? These islands have seen such waves of immigration that it's fairly impossible to highlight a group which are indigenous. And how can you know that you're a member of this group, simply because all your grandparents were born in the UK? That isn't enough. Or, as I suspect, are you classing anybody indigenous as simply those people who were born in Britain and are white?

My own argument against Sharia in the UK (and Ireland) is that 1) no law should be based upon religion, and 2) one set of laws should apply to the whole population of a country. Basing anything upon the idea of being an indigenous Briton is a rule that will be on very weak footings.
Reply 82
Original post by teadrinker
I'm glad you said that. i was finding it hard to resist...


I wonder if the op asked homself why all western countries are far better, more civilised places to live than Muslim countries.

Personally I think the attitudes of Muslims like monkeyman are beyong reproach, Muslims will do anything to come to Europe, they beg on their knees for asylum, they cling to trucks and rafts to smuggle themselves in. We bring them into our country feed, clothe educate them etc. We give them freedoms and equality unimiginable in Muslim society and how do they repay us ? They think they can implement their own laws and change our society to suit them. This is how we are repaid for our kindness and generousity.
Reply 83
Original post by Craig_D
This is hardly a situation akin to the Native Americans or Australian Aborigines, what exactly is an indigenous Briton? These islands have seen such waves of immigration that it's fairly impossible to highlight a group which are indigenous. And how can you know that you're a member of this group, simply because all your grandparents were born in the UK? That isn't enough. Or, as I suspect, are you classing anybody indigenous as simply those people who were born in Britain and are white?

My own argument against Sharia in the UK (and Ireland) is that 1) no law should be based upon religion, and 2) one set of laws should apply to the whole population of a country. Basing anything upon the idea of being an indigenous Briton is a rule that will be on very weak footings.


The British people are overwhelmingly descended from the first settlers to Britain, I have actually posted extensive evidence of this on another thread. And what do the native Americans or aboriginees have to do with anything ?
Original post by teadrinker
Even if the son who receives twice the amount of the daugheter is obliged to 'support' his sister - this still oozes misogyny.

The two points you put forward are really not much of a reassurance for me.


Well, that is probably because you are unable to look at anything that has to do with Islam from a rational and objective perspective. You have the presumption that Islam is misogynystic, but you fail to see that Muslim women don't feel that way. In fact, a recent study from a British university has shown that most people who convert to Islam in Britain are white middle-class educated women, which somehow refutes your point.
Reply 85
Original post by Teknik

Original post by Teknik
Your stupid god does not exist so your point is irrelevent.


You Sir, are a very intelligent man. Well done! Idiot.
Reply 86
Original post by Sicherlich.
Well, that is probably because you are unable to look at anything that has to do with Islam from a rational and objective perspective. You have the presumption that Islam is misogynystic, but you fail to see that Muslim women don't feel that way. In fact, a recent study from a British university has shown that most people who convert to Islam in Britain are white middle-class educated women, which somehow refutes your point.


And 3 out of 4 converts leave Islam within 3 years. Islam is horrendously misogynistic. And I think brainwahsing since birth can affect a Muslim womens perception of Islam.

This is a religion where apostacy is punished by death for ****sake
The argument that goes along the lines of "Surely Shariah Law is fine if the people involved want to live under it" is certainly interesting.

Let's take the example of the thing about child custody in the OP. Surely a muslim couple that wants to live under Shariah Law, that undergo a divorce, could decide between eachother that it is right for the man to have custody under British Law? Why is Shariah Law even needed? Unless the woman DOESN'T want to lose custody, in which case the case certainly shouldn't be tried under Shariah Law, since both parties aren't consenting.

I don't see the point and all I can possibly see happening is abuse. Or am I missing something somewhere?
Original post by Teknik
And 3 out of 4 converts leave Islam within 3 years. Islam is horrendously misogynistic. And I think brainwahsing since birth can affect a Muslim womens perception of Islam.

This is a religion where apostacy is punished by death for ****sake


Source?
Reply 89
Original post by Astronomical
I don't see the need for having a separate legal system for Muslims. If you want to live in the UK, whatever your nationality/religion/ethnicity/etc. then you abide by UK law.

It really is as simple as that.

Otherwise, what is stopping me, and everyone else for that matter, setting up our own legal systems?

Muslims abide by sharia law in the UK and have been for decades. The prohibition of consuming pork and other prohibited products is just one example of sharia law. The process of marriage and divorce based on the sharia have always and will always be practiced by muslims, even if they are not recognised officially. The point I'm making is that the vast majority of the sharia law will always be practiced by muslims as this is what makes us Muslim, there is a smaller portion of the sharia that won't be practiced, in particularly the punishments, but the vast majority are being practiced as we speak, it does not in any way conflict with British law.
I'm Muslim but don't agree with the whole bringing Sharia to Britain, it's a Christian country so why bring the Islamic law? IMO there are plenty of Muslim countries so if the Sharia wants to be implemented then it can be done so there. There is no actual Muslim country out there that follows the Sharia (the ones who are under Sharia law) to a T . Take Saudi Arabia, it's a Sharia based country.... yet even that is flawed.

For the people who say brown people are not British..... they are not English* correct, but they are infact British, if they hold a red passport then they hold British nationality. Their ethnic background is something completely different.
Reply 92
How do some of you people get through your daily lives when you possess such small, narrow minded brains?

"Brownies aren't British" - hahahahaha, that comment really did make my day.

I'm a devout Muslim. I don't want Sharia law introduced in Britain. Please, get your facts right.

Just because a small group of people like to blow up buildings, burn flags and protest against certain things, doesn't mean the whole population of that religion possess a similar frame of mind.

What makes you people so different from these narrow minded extremists?

Grow up a little, open up your tiny little brains and stop generalising!

P.S. What's the point of this discussion, anyway?

Thousands of students protested against the increase in tuition fees but did the government listen? NO! So it's never going to happen.

K, bye.
Reply 93
Original post by arabziana94
I'm Muslim but don't agree with the whole bringing Sharia to Britain, it's a Christian country so why bring the Islamic law? IMO there are plenty of Muslim countries so if the Sharia wants to be implemented then it can be done so there. There is no actual Muslim country out there that follows the Sharia (the ones who are under Sharia law) to a T . Take Saudi Arabia, it's a Sharia based country.... yet even that is flawed.

For the people who say brown people are not British..... they are not English* correct, but they are infact British, if they hold a red passport then they hold British nationality. Their ethnic background is something completely different.


They may be civically British bit they are not culturally British nor do they share similar values to Britons.

Muslims are the most alien people to live in Europe.
Reply 94
Original post by Teknik
The British people are overwhelmingly descended from the first settlers to Britain, I have actually posted extensive evidence of this on another thread. And what do the native Americans or aboriginees have to do with anything ?


As have I, some evidence points towards Iberia (who were themselves originally from around Greece and further east), other evidence points towards Germany. At one point I would have thrown my weight behind the Iberian hypothesis, now I'm not so sure.

Even still, what if there was an earlier group who were wiped out? Finding a majority DNA link in today's populations does not prove that group were the first in the UK. The evidence for now is blurred, and at this stage it's not enough to be used to back up making certain laws. Even still, have you had your own DNA tested? If not, a significant part of your family could have moved here from France 150 years ago. Even if not, you'd still find elements of Norwegian, Danish, French, Italian, German, and so on. This weakens any claim of being strictly indigenous.

Say you did manage to highlight an indigenous group, should an Member of Parliament whose DNA is 95% indigenous have more legal influence than an MP whose DNA is 65% indigenous? It's an area which is walking on tricky ground and setting a dangerous precedent.

The Aborigines and Native Americans were an analogy, comparing an instance where indigenous rights would have been employable to a situation where they could not.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 95
Original post by Silly Goose
The argument that goes along the lines of "Surely Shariah Law is fine if the people involved want to live under it" is certainly interesting.

Let's take the example of the thing about child custody in the OP. Surely a muslim couple that wants to live under Shariah Law, that undergo a divorce, could decide between eachother that it is right for the man to have custody under British Law? Why is Shariah Law even needed? Unless the woman DOESN'T want to lose custody, in which case the case certainly shouldn't be tried under Shariah Law, since both parties aren't consenting.

I don't see the point and all I can possibly see happening is abuse. Or am I missing something somewhere?

You don't seem to understand the matter. The practice of sharia under marriage and divorce is non-negotiable for Muslims, if a muslim couple do not undergo an Islamic marriage for example, then they are fornicating. Any marriage between two Muslims that is not an Islamic one is not recognized in Islam. So you can see why the Sharia has always and will always be practiced, especially with regards to marriage and divorce, just like the Jews.
Reply 96
Original post by Craig_D
As have I, some evidence points towards Iberia (who were themselves from Greece and further east), other evidence points towards Germany. At one point I would have thrown my weight behind the Iberian hypothesis, now I'm not so sure. The evidence for now is blurred, and at this stage it's not enough to be used to back up making certain laws. Even still, have you had your own DNA tested? If not, a significant part of your family could have moved here from France 150 years ago. Even if not, you'd still find elements of Norwegian, Danish, French, Italian, German, and so on. This weakens any claim of being strictly indigenous.

Say you did manage to highlight an indigenous group, should an Member of Parliament whose DNA is 95% indigenous have more legal influence than an MP whose DNA is 65% indigenous? It's an area which is walking on tricky ground and setting a dangerous precedent.

The Aborigines and Native Americans were an analogy, comparing an instance where indigenous right would have been employable, to a situation where they could not.


You have no understanding of the word indigneous. Indigenous means 'any ethnic group tied to a geographic location and whom has the longest historical line to that geographic location' regardless of ours ancestors the Scots are indigenous to Scotland just as the English are indigenous to England' as both groups have the longest historical tie to those locations.


Lol, you must be joking? Very credible source, indeed. And I was talking about Britain, not the US.
Reply 98
Original post by Sicherlich.
Lol, you must be joking? Very credible source, indeed. And I was talking about Britain, not the US.


The study is just as relevent to Britain.
Reply 99
Original post by Craig_D
This is hardly a situation akin to the Native Americans or Australian Aborigines, what exactly is an indigenous Briton? These islands have seen such waves of immigration that it's fairly impossible to highlight a group which are indigenous. And how can you know that you're a member of this group, simply because all your grandparents were born in the UK? That isn't enough. Or, as I suspect, are you classing anybody indigenous as simply those people who were born in Britain and are white?

My own argument against Sharia in the UK (and Ireland) is that 1) no law should be based upon religion, and 2) one set of laws should apply to the whole population of a country. Basing anything upon the idea of being an indigenous Briton is a rule that will be on very weak footings.


Fully agree with your 2 points in para 2. But take some issue with your first paragraph.

If we are honest, the term 'indigenous' people is pretty much absurd for almost every nation on Earth. Just to take a few examples, the population of modern Greece is quite different from their ancient Greek 'anscestors' thanks to in- and out-migrations, and neighboring Turkey is a melting pot of peoples who arrived in ancient and modern migrations. There are some instances I suppose, small remote island nations perhaps, where a small group of people has lived separate from the rest of humanity for many hundred years. But even the Native Americans migrated to the new world from Central Asia - the same place Europeans emigrated from many thousands of years ago (if I recall national geographic's genome documentary correctly...).

i do get the impression that we are more eager to label foreign peoples 'indigenous' and are of the thinking that their culture is somehow worthier of preservation and protection than our own.

Could this even be a subconscious form of 'racism'?? indigenous sounds very primitive doesn't it - conjuring up images of people in grass skirts and the like - perhaps the middle classes subconsciously object to labeling themselves'indigenous' as it has such connotations, which they feel above .

"Indigenous," they may think, "a word for the blacks and the asians, but not a word to label us post modern Brits!"

"Preservation of culture," they may think " is stuff like collecting feather head dresses and the like from the picturesque darkies!"

Well, perhaps we are doing ourself a disservice. Why is our culture less worth preserving? Just because we are an early modern mixture of Angles, Saxons, Celts, and Norsemen? Well what nations aren't as mongrel as we are? Perhaps we should try to look beyond our own self loathing?
(edited 12 years ago)

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