The Student Room Group

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Reply 40
Although female teachers kissing male pupils is about as common as vice versa, so it's not immediately clear where feminism comes into it - it doesn't really seem to be an example of sexism.
Reply 41
Yes but male teachers kissing male pupils would be less common. That is my point. And unless the pupil was actually in tears it is totally condescending to do that.
Reply 42
Yes but male teachers kissing male pupils would be less common

That's a fact (or allegedly, if it's true, it's a fact), rather than a "point".

What's the point you want to make about that fact? Is it a good thing? A bad thing? Or just an observation?

I'm not entirely sure why it's "horrendous" or "condescending" either.

EDIT: Clarified
Reply 43
Any kissing of pupils by a teacher, regardless of gender of either is an act of 'gross misconduct' and renders the teacher liable to summary dismissal.
Reply 44
one of the student teachers at my school kissed everyone on the last day of school. they all feel so violated..
Reply 45
Wez
That's a fact (or allegedly, if it's true, it's a fact).


Well spotted. :wink:
Reply 46
poltroon
Well spotted. :wink:

I'm not sure if this is meant sarcastically, but if it is, her next sentence was "That is my point.", when it wasn't really a "point" at all, rather a statement or a 'fact'.
Reply 47
Ally
Yes but male teachers kissing male pupils would be less common. That is my point. And unless the pupil was actually in tears it is totally condescending to do that


A male teacher kissing a male pupil would be unusual. This is her 'point', the truth that she wants you to grasp. You could call this a fact, it is also an observation, it doesn't really matter. She then goes on to say that for a male to kiss another male is highly humiliating for the male who is kissed. Imagine if a guy who you didn't know came up to you and kissed you on the cheek in front of all his friends at school. Would you feel humiliated?
But no man ever kisses a bloke when he meets him, unless you are french or some french colony. You shake a man's hand and you kiss a woman's cheek if you've known them for any amount of time.
Reply 49
allymcb2
I actually thought the kiss on the cheek was horrendous. It is disgusting from a feminist perspective never mind anything else. I doubt very much he would have kissed a boy. I would have felt horrendously uncomfortable if one of my teachers had kissed me.


Yeah, he would have smacked the lads arse and gone 'go on my sonnnn!, get in there!'. :p:

You actually think this is a gender-biased action...and then feminists wonder why most people laugh at them.

The genders will get treated differently, because, GASP, they are different.
Reply 50
tehjonny
Yeah, he would have smacked the lads arse and gone 'go on my sonnnn!, get in there!'. :p:

You actually think this is a gender-biased action...and then feminists wonder why most people laugh at them.

The genders will get treated differently, because, GASP, they are different.


It is not acceptable for someone holding a position such as a teacher to treat the sexes differently. Equal opportunities and all.

And yes to all the pedantic people, it was the observation supporting my earlier point not the point itself.

And I would consider it humiliating and violating to be kissed by a teacher and would find such an action disgusting and wholly inappropriate to the position.
Reply 51
poltroon
A male teacher kissing a male pupil would be unusual. This is her 'point', the truth that she wants you to grasp. You could call this a fact, it is also an observation, it doesn't really matter. She then goes on to say that for a male to kiss another male is highly humiliating for the male who is kissed. Imagine if a guy who you didn't know came up to you and kissed you on the cheek in front of all his friends at school. Would you feel humiliated?

Guys get their hands shaken. Girls get kisses. I don't view one as better or one as worse than the other just, like the sexes, different.
allymcb2
It is not acceptable for someone holding a position such as a teacher to treat the sexes differently. Equal opportunities and all.

Should boys be kissed as well?

Should girls be forced to do the same amount of exercise as boys during games lessons?

I think using phrases such as "Equal opportunities" and words such as "humiliating and violating" in this context, trivialises these phrases/words.
Reply 52
allymcb2
It is not acceptable for someone holding a position such as a teacher to treat the sexes differently. Equal opportunities and all.


I was not saying the gender's should be treated differently in all regards. I was trying to point out that in some ways, you will be treated differently based on gender, because it is appropriate.

It was not a teacher, it was a local vicar. Seriously, have we gotten to the point where kissing a girls cheek is 'unacceptable'? Maybe we should also make looking each other in the eye unacceptable, 'tis a violation of my rights'.
Reply 53
I do not think it is acceptable to treat the sexes differently in this respect. Being kissed by someone outside your family/romantic relationship is totally degrading for either sex. And I would feel HUMILIATED and VIOLATED. I used these words to demonstrate that the situation is not trivial, not to trivialise the words you revolting prick. If that repulsive chauvanist had done that to me when I was a child I would have poked his eyes out.
Reply 54
I kiss my female friends on the cheek and vice-versa...none of use would feel VIOLATED.

Stop assuming that because YOU, PERSONALLY would feel this a trespass, all people would. You cannot speak for all.

If it had been a female teacher, would you still feel it a violation?

You are the only person to think he is a 'chauvinistic pig'. Pull yourself together, do you feel violated when someone sits next to you on the bus? Your not living in the real world...
Reply 55
allymcb2
I do not think it is acceptable to treat the sexes differently in this respect.

Why? The sexes are different. I don't think either's 'better', but they're different and follow different social conventions. Seems a bit silly to treat them exactly the same when they're clearly different.

Are topless women as fine as topless men?

Is it ok to make girls do the same exercise as guys?
Being kissed by someone outside your family/romantic relationship is totally degrading for either sex. And I would feel HUMILIATED and VIOLATED. I used these words to demonstrate that the situation is not trivial, not to trivialise the words you revolting prick. If that repulsive chauvanist had done that to me when I was a child I would have poked his eyes out.
Kissing someone outside of "family/romantic relationship is totally degrading"? I kiss loads of girls I know and I have a girlfriend. She kisses guys as well. Heck, a fair few guys I know kiss me. How is a peck on the cheek degrading? What's so degrading about it? What about cultures where people kiss instead of shaking hands? What about adults? They usual way to great a mate's wife is a kiss on the cheek.

Also, how does kissing the girl make the guy a chauvinist?

I agree with tehjonny: I don't think you're not living in the real world.
tehjonny
It was not a teacher, it was a local vicar. Seriously, have we gotten to the point where kissing a girls cheek is 'unacceptable'? Maybe we should also make looking each other in the eye unacceptable, 'tis a violation of my rights'.

Gender aside for a sec, thanks for pointing out this part of the story again - he is a vicar, not a teacher. Yes, kissing the girl was, given hindight, ill-advised, because touching a child is no longer seen as socially acceptable, pc, in the classroom context and in many others. Yet in the context of his church, rather than a classroom, a kiss is a blessing, and that's all it was meant as in the classroom situation.

I went to a primary school with strong local links to the church and remember the vicar shaking hands and kissing us in congratulations on ceremony prize-giving days, that was, what, 11 or 12 years ago? It wasn't defined as 'wrong' then by society, we weren't embarrassed or humiliated by it and deep pyschological bruises are showing no signs of making themselves known to us just yet. PC gone too far? Maybe. But it's kind of sadly indicative of society today...money, officers, timewasting investigations on this, something innocent, when there are actual issues out there that need tackling. The child's mother wants him removed from his post as vicar? I think the kind of minset/ideals prompting that are worth investigating more than the rev barrett's behaviour.
Reply 57
White_redrose
Gender aside for a sec, thanks for pointing out this part of the story again - he is a vicar, not a teacher. Yes, kissing the girl was, given hindight, ill-advised, because touching a child is no longer seen as socially acceptable, pc, in the classroom context and in many others. Yet in the context of his church, rather than a classroom, a kiss is a blessing, and that's all it was meant as in the classroom situation.

I went to a primary school with strong local links to the church and remember the vicar shaking hands and kissing us in congratulations on ceremony prize-giving days, that was, what, 11 or 12 years ago? It wasn't defined as 'wrong' then by society, we weren't embarrassed or humiliated by it and deep pyschological bruises are showing no signs of making themselves known to us just yet. PC gone too far? Maybe. But it's kind of sadly indicative of society today...money, officers, timewasting investigations on this, something innocent, when there are actual issues out there that need tackling. The child's mother wants him removed from his post as vicar? I think the kind of minset/ideals prompting that are worth investigating more than the rev barrett's behaviour.


Well said.

To even suggest that 'deep psychological bruises' could result from this is a joke really. Rape, molestation, these result in mental damage, not a peck on the cheek in congratulations :p: .
Reply 58
Wow I wish I hadn't used my day's rep so early in th thread... :rolleyes:
Ok I agree that it was an inappropriate thing to do but a few points
1. I think we established that the vicar was an older man - in years gone by this would be totally common. I'd be far less worried about being kissed by an old guy than say a newly ordained priest in his 20s.
2. Although we all seem to agree that he was misguided I also think that we can agree that a kiss on the cheek is not enough to merit being sacked (NB I'm not talking about the governing body - the mother said she wanted him sacked from his parish) especially when it's in front of a lot of people and obviously just a congratulatory gesture
3. Would anybody who is writing off all priests as - now what was the quote? Something about sexually repressed - or saying they don't trust them please do a bit of reading on the Christian faith. Only Roman Catholic priests and a minority of others who choose to take vows are celibate. Anglicans, Methodists, Protestants etc etc etc are not celibate, are often married and therefore you have no grounds to insinuate that they are repressed. Incidentally is every unmarried man who is not in a sexual relationship repressed? No. And is every man who cannot find a sexual partner of his own age going to turn to paedophilia? No. I find the implication about as ridiculous as parents who won't let a gay man e.g. coach their children at football - meanwhile implying that gay = paedophile. It's ridiculous.
Bekaboo

3. Would anybody who is writing off all priests as - now what was the quote? Something about sexually repressed - or saying they don't trust them please do a bit of reading on the Christian faith. Only Roman Catholic priests and a minority of others who choose to take vows are celibate. Anglicans, Methodists, Protestants etc etc etc are not celibate, are often married and therefore you have no grounds to insinuate that they are repressed. Incidentally is every unmarried man who is not in a sexual relationship repressed? No. And is every man who cannot find a sexual partner of his own age going to turn to paedophilia? No. I find the implication about as ridiculous as parents who won't let a gay man e.g. coach their children at football - meanwhile implying that gay = paedophile. It's ridiculous.



you may find it ridiculous, but I find you very naive.

sexuallness is one of the the most basic and natural instincts in the world.
Everyone feels it, from the tiniest of insects right through each and every animal upto us as humans. The fact is, if vicars were allowed to express their sexuality normally they probably wouldnt end up abusing so many children. (in proportion to people from other professions that have high amounts of contact with children) If you repress something long enough, it'll find its way out somehow.

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