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How do develop political opinion?

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Reply 20
Original post by jonnny
I don't really have any political opinions. I guess I support Labour sort of because I believe we should help the poor but that's it.
QUOTE]

Snippety snip>>

And thats fine. It isnt obligatory to develop or hold political opinions. In fact I'd say that it is a valueable waste of your time and brain processing power to trouble yourself with such matters.

Why would you when you can devote your time and processing power to the real important business of self development, self improvement and making money.

At least there is potential for REAL return whereas if you waste time on politics and rubbish like voting,there is no real return to you as an individual.

Let others waste their time servicing the vanity of politicans.

It isnt worth your time.
Reply 21
Your alignment should match your view, not the other way around.
Original post by inniz
I'm a libertarian and this is largely based on my personality. I'm easy-going, and don't really give a **** what others do provided it's not hurting me or anybody I care about.

I think most base their politics on their personality or upbringing. I think by and large people are socialists for instance because they grew up in poor households or face disadvantages. Not saying everybody is like that (Tony Benn and Tony Blair didn't grow up in poverty), but then it's just an example.


I think it's fair to say that a person's experience strongly shapes their political values though not automatically their 'conditions' in a simple sense, hence, as you suggest, socialists can come from among the 'comfortable' classes just as those from unprivileged origins can become Tories, and so on. In the end our orientation should be pinned down with some political philosophy or values which justify, at least to ourselves, why we think things ought to be one way as opposed to another.

Sometimes an image can be enough of a starting point.

rich_poor_divide.jpg
Original post by Axiomasher
Here's a rough starting point at least as far as economics is concerned:

1. Do you believe people should be rewarded mostly according to their status and money?
2..Do you believe people should be rewarded mostly according to their productivity?
3. Do you believe people should be rewarded mostly according to their effort?
4. Do you believe people should be rewarded mostly according to their needs?

1. Probably conservatism of some kind.
2. Probably liberalism of some kind.
3. Probably socialism of some kind.
4. Probably Marxist of some kind.


The problem with this is it's just not true. Conservatives do not just think people should mostly be awarded according to their status, and becoming a Marxist or socialist (unless you support a mixed economy) does nothing but bend reality to your views.
Original post by Are you Shaw?
The problem with this is it's just not true. Conservatives do not just think people should mostly be awarded according to their status, and becoming a Marxist or socialist (unless you support a mixed economy) does nothing but bend reality to your views.


As far as a distinction between 'conservatism' and 'liberalism' is concerned, in economic terms at least, the distinction is reasonably informative, though in recent decades conservatism has been heavily influenced by economic liberalism I'll grant you.

The rest of your paragraph is more obviously mere opinion.
Original post by Axiomasher
As far as a distinction between 'conservatism' and 'liberalism' is concerned, in economic terms at least, the distinction is reasonably informative, though in recent decades conservatism has been heavily influenced by economic liberalism I'll grant you.

The rest of your paragraph is more obviously mere opinion.


I don't agree that it is merely opinion, socialism can work in certain contexts (such as after WW2 when Europe needed rebuilding) but it seems quite evident that Marxism and socialism are not realistic political systems, the former because it's authoritarian and just doesn't work in general and the latter because you run out of other people's money (how is France doing with the recovery?)

As for the distinction between conservatism and liberalism, there is obviously a distinction, most conservatives however are now liberal (except the idiots who vote ukip and against the eu).
Original post by jonnny
I don't really have any political opinions. I guess I support Labour sort of because I believe we should help the poor but that's it. Recently I saw a video on BBC news with a guy asking people to decide who was better for business out of George Osbourne and Ed Balls...but I mean how do people really make their opinions on that? Every time I read an interview of a politician I just end up accepting what they say and not having any opinions on it and mostly agreeing with it, and then agreeing with the counter argument before.

How can I develop political opinions so I don't feel so stupid when people around me discuss politics?


Helping the poor doesn't = Labour. Political rhetoric is designed so that you agree with it, but you need to try look past the obvious and see it for what it really is. Trust me, the more you learn about political parties, the more disillusioned with them you become (in my experience anyway).
What's the point. Politicians are all in it for themselves anyway.

Down with the current government, get people in that actually give a damn about the nation.
Original post by StrangestThings
What's the point. Politicians are all in it for themselves anyway.

Down with the current government, get people in that actually give a damn about the nation.


Yes, they are mostly in it for themselves and, ultimately, their master...

The State Answers To Capital Alone.jpg
Reply 29
Original post by StrangestThings
What's the point. Politicians are all in it for themselves anyway.

Down with the current government, get people in that actually give a damn about the nation.


One of the theories of declinisim I have been reading suggests that that the decline of Britain is because the wrong people are in power, for some it's the lack of scientists, society's natural searchers for progress that has resulted in Britain's problems. Essentially it's the failure of the education system that has resulted in these problems, the people who are in power have no scientific knowledge and understanding of how society should be run. These scientists etc have been replaced by literary intellectuals and natural Luddites. Maybe you agree with this?

Also, that is the realist view on politics I have read that realists believe that human nature is by certainty, selfish, and everyone is out for their own interests whether this be sought by military or diplomatic means. Maybe you take a realist perspective on politics.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Ruffiio
One of the theories of declinisim I have been reading suggests that that the decline of Britain is because the wrong people are in power, for some it's the lack of scientists, society's natural searchers for progress that has resulted in Britain's problems. Essentially it's the failure of the education system that has resulted in these problems, the people who are in power have no scientific knowledge and understanding of how society should be run. These scientists etc have been replaced by literary intellectuals and natural Luddites. Maybe you agree with this?

Also, that is the realist view on politics I have read that realists believe that human nature is by certainty, selfish, and everyone is out for their own interests whether this be sought by military or diplomatic means. Maybe you take a realist perspective on politics.


itt nonsense. The idea that scientists could run the government much better than the current lot, who study (mostly) philosophy economics and politics is ludicrous, perhaps the evidence that the majority of people in academia are left-wingers is enough proof of this.

The realist perspective on politics is called capitalism.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 31
Original post by Are you Shaw?
itt nonsense. The idea that scientists could run the government much better than the current lot, who study (mostly) philosophy economics and politics is ludicrous, perhaps the evidence that the majority of people in academia are left-wingers is enough proof of this.


Well i'm sure the people who believe this don't think it's nonsense. But again that just proves that one of many aspects of politics is that it revolves around debate and that not everyone thinks the same way about it.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Ruffiio
Well i'm sure the people who believe this don't think it's nonsense. But again that just proves that one of many aspects of politics is that it revolves around debate and that not everyone thinks the same way about it.


I'm sure creatonists don't believe creationism is nonsense... as for the diversity in debates, there is always going to be differing viewpoints and this is not a bad thing at all, the problem is when people are so dogmatic about it they would rather ruin the country than admit they are wrong.
Original post by Ruffiio
One of the theories of declinisim I have been reading suggests that that the decline of Britain is because the wrong people are in power, for some it's the lack of scientists, society's natural searchers for progress that has resulted in Britain's problems. Essentially it's the failure of the education system that has resulted in these problems, the people who are in power have no scientific knowledge and understanding of how society should be run. These scientists etc have been replaced by literary intellectuals and natural Luddites. Maybe you agree with this?

Also, that is the realist view on politics I have read that realists believe that human nature is by certainty, selfish, and everyone is out for their own interests whether this be sought by military or diplomatic means. Maybe you take a realist perspective on politics.


I agree in part with both of these theories. Our current education system is in serious decline and the current government plans to only make things worse. I would say I am more of a realist though, I wouldn't say that our leaders are literary intellectuals.

How can our countries leaders have any kind of empathy for the majority if they themselves have come from privileged backgrounds and have never experienced a real working day in their lives? That's what I like about the theory behind American politics, that anybody has the chance of becoming President if they work hard. In Britain you can only really get anywhere in politics if you have come from an elitist background.

People are inherently corrupt with tendencies to only care for oneself. Whether this has stemmed from evolution or is caused by people having too much power I don't know but sometimes it is so damn disheartening.
Original post by Axiomasher
Yes, they are mostly in it for themselves and, ultimately, their master...

The State Answers To Capital Alone.jpg


True dat. There are also people above them that have the real say in how the world is run such as the Military Industrial Complex.

Scary **** when you think about it, a few people decide upon the fate of humanity.
Original post by Dylankj96
Helping the poor doesn't = Labour. Political rhetoric is designed so that you agree with it, but you need to try look past the obvious and see it for what it really is. Trust me, the more you learn about political parties, the more disillusioned with them you become (in my experience anyway).


Totally agree with you. I don't really want to associate with any but am scared of wasting my vote. Monster Raving Loony Party may be an option.
Reply 36
If you've not developed any lasting political opinions by eighteen years old then you probably won't at all.
Original post by StrangestThings

How can our countries leaders have any kind of empathy for the majority if they themselves have come from privileged backgrounds and have never experienced a real working day in their lives? That's what I like about the theory behind American politics, that anybody has the chance of becoming President if they work hard. In Britain you can only really get anywhere in politics if you have come from an elitist background.


This is an argument I see a lot of and which I, personally think, is a massive load of *******s. Firstly American politics is not more open than British politics, both candidates spent in excess of a billion dollars to run their election campaigns last time round, sums that can only be generated by the vested intrest of the two major parties and their commercial partners.

Secondly, if you have a competent government, you have absolutely no need for a representative one, other than it looks nice. If you had people who thought more rationally and pragmatically, rather than sticking by dogma and idealism then they would be perfectly capable of empaphising with people who have a different situation than them.

The problem with politics derives from a problem with society, the problem is the consumerist, capitalist need for SELF-improvment, SELF-satisfaction and the preservation of chaos. If you do not tackle society as a whole's addiction to arrogance and greed then you'll never improve anything.
Original post by mojojojo101
This is an argument I see a lot of and which I, personally think, is a massive load of *******s. Firstly American politics is not more open than British politics, both candidates spent in excess of a billion dollars to run their election campaigns last time round, sums that can only be generated by the vested intrest of the two major parties and their commercial partners.


Yes they receive outside funds but their presidential history proves that you don't need to be born into the upper classes to get in where as you do here. I don't see the correlation between the two, yeah they spend a loada money but what has that to do with their background it's not like they fund it themselves.

Secondly, if you have a competent government, you have absolutely no need for a representative one, other than it looks nice. If you had people who thought more rationally and pragmatically, rather than sticking by dogma and idealism then they would be perfectly capable of empathising with people who have a different situation than them.


Yes I agree but it seems to me that the majority of people at the top lack any real compassion for those on the breadline. By all means if there was a candidate from a wealthy background that seemed to genuinely care for those at the bottom then get them elected. I feel that people that maybe haven't got that perfect background would have more of an idea of how to do some good for the country than those monkeys in suits. The path into politics should not be constrained to those at the top.

The problem with politics derives from a problem with society, the problem is the consumerist, capitalist need for SELF-improvment, SELF-satisfaction and the preservation of chaos. If you do not tackle society as a whole's addiction to arrogance and greed then you'll never improve anything.


Again I completely agree but there is little hope for that ever changing. Nobody can just flick a switch and have humanity become a completely selfless altruistic species. The best we can aspire to do is get leaders in that have an interest in actually helping others rather than feasting on power and exploitation.
Reply 39
Interesting test if you don't know where to start, asks your opinion on certain things

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

Apparently I've turned into some soppy Left wing hippy :eek:

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