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Reply 80
Original post by minimarshmallow
(From Wikipedia)

You can't use anecdotal evidence to support a theory against evidence disproving it, this would be the fallacy of misusing it.

(We're so far off topic, I can't even remember where this started, so I think I'll wrap it up rather than just continue to read where you repeat yourself over and over).


You claim there is a black swan. Turns out you were tripping on acid.

You can't really have a BSc yet not understand how your word alone is any sort of proof.

Original post by RandZul'Zorander
A baseless statement can in fact be a theory. Anyways, if we go on a scientific theory. Lets use the example you were using earlier with mini.

Hypothesis: All swans are white.

P1 - After observation and recording. I have only observed white swans.

C - All swans are white.

If I have seen a black swan (or indeed a swan of any color other than white) your theory is disproven.


P1 - small data sample. Guy was an idiot to begin with.

And again, you seeing something doesn't make it true, or correct. For gods sake you guys can't really be at university and failing to understand such a basic, simple, foundational concept.

In science, definitions of anecdotal evidence include:

"information that is not based on facts or careful study"[9]

"reports or observations of usually unscientific observers"[10]

"casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis"[11]

"information passed along by word-of-mouth but not documented scientifically"[citation needed]

(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 81
Original post by Nathanielle
Nearly every psychological study uses somehow "anecdotal evidence" by asking the probands, what they feel and think or how they treat their children or ... Would you say all this research is worthless? How do you want to monitor the effects then? The technical standard we have now, is too low, to be independant from the reactions of the probands. We simply can't now, what they think exactly. We can see patterns or people behaving the same way or people seeing things which are clearly not there, but we are not independant on the anecdotal evidence, you call worthless, not yet. (Not that I don't now, the value of anecdotal evidence e.g. concerning memories of veterans for historic research, but in some research areas we have too, especially when we want to know exactly how this anecdotal evidence can even develop.)


Any proof for what you just said? Or am I supposed to just take your word for it? :s-smilie:

Asking a large sample group isn't anecdotal evidence. That's you not understanding what anecdotal evidence is.

In science, definitions of anecdotal evidence include:

"information that is not based on facts or careful study"[9]

"reports or observations of usually unscientific observers"[10]

"casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis"[11]

"information passed along by word-of-mouth but not documented scientifically"[citation needed]

Original post by Doppelgänger
It's "wrong" simply because it's superficial.


*sighs

not it really isnt. Sex is a fundemental part of a healthy adult relationship (unless both parties have agreed otherwise and are being honest) It is not unreasonable or superficial to expect sexual relations in a relationship. If the no sex rule is making the other person upset and there is no resolution, it is perfectly acceptable to end it.

What white knights dont seem to get is that a relationship is about two people, not one doing everything in his/her power to make the other happy at the detriment of him/herself
Original post by geoking
Any proof for what you just said? Or am I supposed to just take your word for it? :s-smilie:

Asking a large sample group isn't anecdotal evidence. That's you not understanding what anecdotal evidence is.

In science, definitions of anecdotal evidence include:

"information that is not based on facts or careful study"[9]

"reports or observations of usually unscientific observers"[10]

"casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis"[11]

"information passed along by word-of-mouth but not documented scientifically"[citation needed]



I do understand it very well and no I need no evidence, as you haven't cared about submitting it either. (And citing wikipedia ... )

The point is, if you take a large sample group (and after assuring you it is actually representing society), the answer of each of them won't look differently too the answers you got here. So to call one answer worthless, makes the whole study worthless. To say the anecdotal evidence of someone is worthless, because it contradicts your study, is not the definition of anecdotal evidence. You could do a second experiment to see, wether it is true, yes, but it does not per se makes anecdotal evidence something you can just take as worthless. (If I would be mean, I would say, you can only do that, because you don't do hard sciences, like physics or engineering, where you can't say: Well, in the other lab, our theory was disproven, because one single experiment prooves the theory wrong. But as this is only anecdotal evidence,because we haven't reproduced it under the same conditions, and in 80% of the experiments this does not happen, our theory is right. {Like making a mathematical proof, while knowing that you know one counter-example.}.)

Or take the examply of research in e.g. nuclear technology: I can't say, oh, it behaves differently, but taking a large enough group, it won't happen and is thus not existing. NO => If I want a nuclear power plant, which is safe, I have to prevent for every case, which can occur.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 84
Original post by Nathanielle
I do understand it very well and no I need no evidence, as you haven't cared about submitting it either. (And citing wikipedia ... )

The point is, if you take a large sample group (and after assuring you it is actually representing society), the answer of each of them won't look differently too the answers you got here. So to call one answer worthless, makes the whole study worthless. To say the anecdotal evidence of someone is worthless, because it contradicts your study, is not the definition of anecdotal evidence. You could do a second experiment to see, wether it is true, yes, but it does not per se makes anecdotal evidence something you can just take as worthless. (If I would be mean, I would say, you can only do that, because you don't do hard sciences, like physics or engineering, where you can't say: Well, in the other lab, our theory was disproven, because one single experiment prooves the theory wrong. But as this is only anecdotal evidence,because we haven't reproduced it under the same conditions, and in 80% of the experiments this does not happen, our theory is right. {Like making a mathematical proof, while knowing that you know one counter-example.}.)

Or take the examply of research in e.g. nuclear technology: I can't say, oh, it behaves differently, but taking a large enough group, it won't happen and is thus not existing. NO => If I want a nuclear power plant, which is safe, I have to prevent for every case, which can occur.


Wikipedia, as long as it is referenced, isn't an inherently flawed source...

You seem to not understand the importance of sample size. One answer on it's own means nothing. 10,000 can show trends.

As for the bolded part, that was never said.

There really is nothing more to say. If you think anecdotal evidence is worthwhile, then you don't understand how proper science is conducted and the problems with fallacies.
Original post by silverbolt
*sighs

not it really isnt. Sex is a fundemental part of a healthy adult relationship (unless both parties have agreed otherwise and are being honest) It is not unreasonable or superficial to expect sexual relations in a relationship. If the no sex rule is making the other person upset and there is no resolution, it is perfectly acceptable to end it.

What white knights dont seem to get is that a relationship is about two people, not one doing everything in his/her power to make the other happy at the detriment of him/herself

No need to sigh, save your breath. I actually agree with your detailed reasoning where a timescale has been agreed on - say she makes it clear she doesn't have sex with new partners after x num' of dates/months. I was referring to a dude dumping a girl purely on the basis of unreasonable expectations of her putting out a.s.a.p. to satisfy his sexual needs before she is ready. You're right that the timing of putting out has to be mutual and not skewed to please one party; compromises may need to be made. I'm no white Knight fyi!
Original post by Jessaay!
It's not really superficial. It entirely depend on the age and circumstances.

Both scientifically and emotionally, sex has a lot of implications for human bonding and love.

If you're older and you're withholding sex from someone who really wants it/needs it (it is sometimes a need), then I think you're being quite selfish by being in a relationship with that person depending on how long you're asking them to wait. It's generally best to date someone with the same values.

However, if you're say, 16, and she doesn't feel ready, it is a bit immature and superficial to end a relationship then and there because then you're at a different stage in your life and I'd imagine the relationships are much more short lived so it's not like the cannon would be ready to blow but being suppressed, so to speak. You're quite young and it probably doesn't have the same implications as witholding sex from a more mature person.

Agreed, there are a number of variables to consider. Final paragraph explains why I deem it superficial, as I'm 19 years young and personally would not dump a girl who shows signs of being a keeper purely on the basis of her not putting out. I'm more than happy to abstain for an agreed period and still be able to function and develop the relationship without any resentment. However, if it's a case of no sex before marriage, this principle is not shared by me and splitting up would be likely.
Reply 87
Original post by BradyBeBack
Me and this girl have been dating for a grand total of 76 days and she says she doesnt feel comfortable granted last time I checked we were a month in but I'm feeling sexually frustrated because we make out and then no sex. But the problem is I really like her, shes so great but I just dont know what to do because its starting to stress me out. She calls me hot and I definitely find her attractive and it could be I'm her first boyfriend ever shes also my first sort of were both 15 I'm a few months older but I dont know what's wrong.

Apart from the fact you are bumping a 6 year old thread instead of starting a new one, you are both below the age of consent and should not be having sex and she is allowed to say no. If you don't know this, or understand what's wrong and can't discuss it with her, you aren't mature enough to be in a relationship.

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