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Do you consider UKIP good or bad? watch

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    Basically I overheard a conversation some girls were having about how if UKIP get into power the country is doomed, jokingly saying they'd all be kicked out of the country (three Asian girls and a black girl; all born here) but then went on to say Farage wanted all the Asians out which is when I said "He couldn't do that. There'd be some massive rebellion" also adding that the Tories and Labour wouldn't be much better for the country. I bowed out soon afterwards realising I'd kind of spoken where I shouldn't have (because you know, not my conversation). This got me to thinking about how there are probably a lot of people that really think that.

    My dad votes for UKIP and I got into a conversation with him about it the other day. He argued that UKIP aren't actually racist, they just want tighter immigration laws and for our country to stop giving benefits to everyone who comes in.

    Now while his argument, though not really backed up by anything, actually sounds more like something that COULD be a possibility I'm still not sure partially because of the bad rep they've got. I want intending on voting next year but now im considering voting for UKIP mainly because we've seen both the conservatives and labour **** up so it'd be nice to see if UKI p is an improvement. If not, we can always get rid of them in 4 years right? But anyways I'm interested as to what you all think.

    I know these threads are overdone however I wanted to make a thread asking rather than focussing on certain things, I just want to ask in general do people consider UKIP good or bad?
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    UKIP seem to have the 'big three' on their toes at the moment; in my view that is an indirectly good thing. There are certain areas that parties would be comfortable not discussing - the big UKIP one, immigration, is probably one of them - and this recent rise seems to be forcing the hand of major parties. I regard this as more good than bad (this is not a commentary on policies and their effects; merely an observation of what UKIP's presence is doing in modern politics).
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    UKIP are bad because:

    1) They wish to remove the UK from the jurisdiction of the EU court of human rights. You heard me, UKIP wants the UK not to have to abide by laws that protect fundamental human rights and freedoms.

    2) 'No to political correctness'- basically they'd like to create a platform where racist/homophobic/islamaphobic statements are no longer frowned upon. They say PC stifles free speech, I say not having it segregates society.

    3) Their entire immigration policy is based on fear and intolerance. 'Immigrants put pressure on the healthcare system'- Nope, the elderly put pressure on the healthcare system and arguably, the NHS wouldn't function without immigrants.- this is one example, there's many more but I'm not really in the mood to list every single one.

    4) Their policies are based on idealisms, not realisms. They want lower taxes but more police on the streets, improved roads. Fair enough- but where's that money going to come from?

    5) Their immigration policy will see an increase in homelessness and crimes committed by immigrants. 'Immigrants must financially support themselves for 5 years before receiving state help'. Example: A migrant worker works in the UK for 2 years, brings his family here, things are looking good. Company he works for gets made redundant, can no longer afford things, is not entitled to benefits or any state help. Begins stealing to provide for his family.


    Just a few I can think of off the top of my head
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    I consider UKIP to be very very very bad!
    It's quite scary how much of a following they're garnering, purely because many people don't want to vote for the 'big three', so they're willing to vote UKIP to make a point - a dangerous move in my opinion.

    UKIP want to scrap minimum wage, maternity pay, statutory holiday allowance/pay, and (sorry for this one) they have zero tolerance for women. One of their own MP's, a woman, called for an investigation into an issue within the party - something I believe any other party would accept and honour - and Farage called her 'stupid' and told her to "shut up". Is this really the kind of man we want to run our country?

    I'm not going to advocate any of the big three either - Milliband and Cameron are idiots, Clegg was too easily swayed - they should have voted Cable or Campbell as their leader instead.

    Funny how the BNP seem to have disappeared as UKIP have risen to the fore - they're still a dangerous party though.

    I have no problem with people wanting to be proud of their country, but UKIP are distorting immigration figures to suit their own ends; yes we need to improve immigration controls, and sort out the benefits service, but UKIP is not the way forward.
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    UKIP may not be racist, but it seems a fair chunk of the party's membership is. But even if they had a clean slate on that front, I'd still be against them for their rampant homophobia (repealing same-sex marriages, re-introducing section 28), useless economic policy (throw money away on defense spending, etc.) and plenty of other things besides. From a personal perspective I'd be 100% worse off with a UKIP government around compared to non-UKIP, so it's a bit of a no-brainer.

    I do have to laugh somewhat when the "UKIP will fix everything" argument comes about though. As if they're somehow less corrupt, less greedy or less incompetent than any other politician. All politicians are the same, really. The only difference between UKIP politicians and those in Labour/Conservatives/LD are that only the latter set have had a chance to be corrupt buffoons in parliament. UKIP would be no different given half the chance.
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    (Original post by Rooster523)
    UKIP are bad because:

    1) They wish to remove the UK from the jurisdiction of the EU court of human rights. You heard me, UKIP wants the UK not to have to abide by laws that protect fundamental human rights and freedoms.

    2) 'No to political correctness'- basically they'd like to create a platform where racist/homophobic/islamaphobic statements are no longer frowned upon. They say PC stifles free speech, I say not having it segregates society.

    3) Their entire immigration policy is based on fear and intolerance. 'Immigrants put pressure on the healthcare system'- Nope, the elderly put pressure on the healthcare system and arguably, the NHS wouldn't function without immigrants.- this is one example, there's many more but I'm not really in the mood to list every single one.

    4) Their policies are based on idealisms, not realisms. They want lower taxes but more police on the streets, improved roads. Fair enough- but where's that money going to come from?

    5) Their immigration policy will see an increase in homelessness and crimes committed by immigrants. 'Immigrants must financially support themselves for 5 years before receiving state help'. Example: A migrant worker works in the UK for 2 years, brings his family here, things are looking good. Company he works for gets made redundant, can no longer afford things, is not entitled to benefits or any state help. Begins stealing to provide for his family.


    Just a few I can think of off the top of my head
    Well put, I'd forgotten the NHS side - ironic, since my mother would die if they came into power and enforced their ridiculous ideals.
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    They are as bad as their European twin parties, as they decided to use populist scapegoating (with possibly really bad effects) instead of proposing real solutions for real problems.


    (Original post by Rooster523)
    UKIP are bad because:

    1) They wish to remove the UK from the jurisdiction of the EU court of human rights. You heard me, UKIP wants the UK not to have to abide by laws that protect fundamental human rights and freedoms.

    2) 'No to political correctness'- basically they'd like to create a platform where racist/homophobic/islamaphobic statements are no longer frowned upon. They say PC stifles free speech, I say not having it segregates society.

    3) Their entire immigration policy is based on fear and intolerance. 'Immigrants put pressure on the healthcare system'- Nope, the elderly put pressure on the healthcare system and arguably, the NHS wouldn't function without immigrants.- this is one example, there's many more but I'm not really in the mood to list every single one.

    4) Their policies are based on idealisms, not realisms. They want lower taxes but more police on the streets, improved roads. Fair enough- but where's that money going to come from?

    5) Their immigration policy will see an increase in homelessness and crimes committed by immigrants. 'Immigrants must financially support themselves for 5 years before receiving state help'. Example: A migrant worker works in the UK for 2 years, brings his family here, things are looking good. Company he works for gets made redundant, can no longer afford things, is not entitled to benefits or any state help. Begins stealing to provide for his family.


    Just a few I can think of off the top of my head
    Agreed.
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    (Original post by EllieC130)
    Basically I overheard a conversation some girls were having about how if UKIP get into power the country is doomed, jokingly saying they'd all be kicked out of the country (three Asian girls and a black girl; all born here) but then went on to say Farage wanted all the Asians out which is when I said "He couldn't do that. There'd be some massive rebellion" also adding that the Tories and Labour wouldn't be much better for the country. I bowed out soon afterwards realising I'd kind of spoken where I shouldn't have (because you know, not my conversation). This got me to thinking about how there are probably a lot of people that really think that.

    My dad votes for UKIP and I got into a conversation with him about it the other day. He argued that UKIP aren't actually racist, they just want tighter immigration laws and for our country to stop giving benefits to everyone who comes in.

    Now while his argument, though not really backed up by anything, actually sounds more like something that COULD be a possibility I'm still not sure partially because of the bad rep they've got. I want intending on voting next year but now im considering voting for UKIP mainly because we've seen both the conservatives and labour **** up so it'd be nice to see if UKI p is an improvement. If not, we can always get rid of them in 4 years right? But anyways I'm interested as to what you all think.

    I know these threads are overdone however I wanted to make a thread asking rather than focussing on certain things, I just want to ask in general do people consider UKIP good or bad?
    I'm a British minority. I don't think it's racist to want tighter immigration laws.

    However, most of UKIP's policies, immigration-related or not, are pretty naff. That's why I wouldn't vote for them.
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    Well guess I'm not gonna be voting then. This country is officially ****ed no matter what direction we go in. I don't blame people for being scared.
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    Perhaps they are both good and bad-

    In the recent EU debate, I was siding with Clegg, as I like him as a person more than Farage. However, it was clear that Farage was winning the argument; leaving the EU is probably the best way forward.

    Yet you see so many stories of racist members of UKIP party, it does make you wonder what will happen if UKIP get many seats in parliament.
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    Is that the party of "attacks on nuclear energy are a conspiracy started by the ecologist lobby"?
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    (Original post by Eux)

    In the recent EU debate, I was siding with Clegg, as I like him as a person more than Farage. However, it was clear that Farage was winning the argument; leaving the EU is probably the best way forward.
    Best way forward based on what? Way toward where? Unilateral isolationism? I guess I have a very different idea of better or best.
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    Why they're good: They are making the two leading parties worried. This is actually making Labour and Conservatives co-operate more with the public IMO because they are worried that they will lose power.

    Why they're bad: Just look at their manifesto! They are racist and they are taking advantage of it whilst the country is in the pan. I don't think UKIP will ever be as successful as the Nazi Party in elections, but there's a correlation between the two that when unemployment is high, they do well.
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    A lot of people on this site support UKIP because you could sayTSR is generally quite right wing.

    but they're disgusting. the only thing I can think to compare them to is the Nazi party. Farage reminds me of Hitler.
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    (Original post by polscistudent88)
    Best way forward based on what? Way toward where? Unilateral isolationism? I guess I have a very different idea of better or best.

    Well is the EU necessary to our survival? Or just a way that we succumb to the mercy of foreign judges, in a 'club which we pay over 20 million a day to be part of'.
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    (Original post by Eux)
    Well is the EU necessary to our survival? Or just a way that we succumb to the mercy of foreign judges, in a 'club which we pay over 20 million a day to be part of'.
    Ah ok, well it confirms we have different ideas on desirability... As I wasn't really talking about survival. And that "we succumb to the mercy of foreign judges"... What? Seriously? :facepalm:
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    In terms of the shake up and interrupting the cosy 3 way love in between Dave, Nick and Ed....Nigel is the best thing to happen to British politics in a long time. And he's right about Immigration as well!
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    Bad. They are scaremongering and brewing up animosity towards immigrants, who quite often are already getting the rough end of the stick anyway. It's also very irritating that people are buying this champion of the working classes and the disenfranchised, when Farage is a thatcherite, went to public school, an ex-banker and has been in politics since he was at school.
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    UKIP are an awful party - voting for them in the eu elections is a pointless move, they don't turn up and vote on anything - having them as our MEPs leaves our country unable to influence anything that goes through the European Parliament - which of course they want so they can claim that the eu is undemocratic (it's not, they are just skipping their roles and claiming the money, which is making it worthless for us, if we had people who would actually vote then it wouldn't be) and at a national level, while they may claim not to be racist, a lot of their members are, add into that they've no coherent policies beyond the eu, homophobia and spending and voting them is asking for trouble.
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    I think the fact UKIP is opposed to the European Declaration of Human Rights is a good enough reason for it to be a bad party. Fundamental human rights should not be put aside just because a few goons are scape-goating..
 
 
 
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