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Cameron is acting like a coward on Ukraine

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Lol who cares what Britain says? Let's stop lying to ourselves; we're an irrelevance on the world stage, apart from the fact that our financial sector is competitive. We're a puny island that's had it's time. Empire is gone, even with our great legacy in mathematics and the sciences, we've let America, Europe, Japan, Russia and many more take the lead, by lightyears. We've also made enemies with the EU, the only institution that gave us any political clout globally. Forget it, we suck.

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(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 41
Original post by JoshBedford
We definitely don't have the best military in the world, man-for-man Israel probably has the best military. The US spends about half of their GDP on Military Spending, and is probably the most formidable force on the planet. This is all speculation, but there are several countries I can think of with better armed forces than us.

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Israelis are the ultimate flat-track bullies. 60 years of fighting the world's worst armies and worst soldiers. Arabs just cannot fight. Israelis haven't had a proper fight in years and couldn't deploy more than two men and a cat called Kevin outside their own back yard.

The Americans a formidable force, but they (like the Israelis) only really understand bringing unlimited violence. Individually, they're pretty terrible.

If anyone is nearly as good as us, it's the Australians or the Canadians.
(edited 9 years ago)
Ironic how the same sorts of people who claim Iraq was an illegal war and was terrible and war crimes blah blah blah, are the same people so keen to intervene in Ukraine.

No doubt, 5 years down the line and it all goes tits up, they'll call it an illegal atrocity, because they are naïve idealists who have no idea how diplomacy/war works.

No, we should not even go close to Ukraine, leave it how it is - appeasement is the best policy at the moment for the UK's national interest. Especially, whilst our armed forces is so woefully underfunded.
Original post by RoyalMarine
So Russia can invade and split nations as they like?If we let Putin or anyone else behave like this,he will go on until there is nothing left.Also notice that extremist right parties are probably going to win in EU nations so the message we are giving is that anyone can invade other nations without retaliation.


What have the affairs of Ukraine to do with Mr. Cameron and what right to other power have to interfere? Most things on our mass media are lies when it comes to geopolitics and war, so what makes you think you know the truth?


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I do not advocate appeasement but a vigorous collective defense is the best way of handling Russia; acting alone, or a reckless march to 'protect' Ukrainians would be exactly the thing to legitimize what Russia wants to do, which is gobble up the Donbass. It would be an action straight out of classic Russian diplomacy.
The UK has little invested in Ukraine we have would have nothing to gain.
Original post by Abstraction
Lol who cares what Britain says? Let's stop lying to ourselves; we're an irrelevance on the world stage, apart from the fact that our financial sector is competitive. We're a puny island that's had it's time. Empire is gone, even with our great legacy in mathematics and the sciences, we've let America, Europe, Japan, Russia and many more take the lead, by lightyears. We've also made enemies with the EU, the only institution that gave us any political clout globally. Forget it, we suck.

Oh dear, seat on UN security council, the best special forces in the world (excluding the Israelis, almost every special forces in the world are based on our and are/have been trained by Britain's special forces) , 1st/2nd most powerful city in the world, 2nd best education system in the western world, (4th?) biggest military expenditure, one of the biggest GDPs. Britain still has considerable political clout. However unlike Russia etc, we have much more 'soft power'.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 47
Original post by Cryptographic
Oh dear, seat on UN security council, the best special forces in the world (excluding the Israelis, almost every special forces in the world are based on our and are/have been trained by Britain's special forces) , 1st/2nd most powerful city in the world, 2nd best education system in the western world, (4th?) biggest military expenditure, one of the biggest GDPs. Britain still has considerable political clout. However unlike Russia etc, we have much more 'soft power'.


None of those win wars. 1st/2nd most powerful city?? 2nd best education system?! Wow.

We would be obliterated long before a single US ship could come within strike range of Russian territory.

And even despite that; why would we get involved? Ukraine isn't part of NATO, we're not the world police.
Original post by yo radical one
It's part of Europe and full of people with feelings, aspirations etc heck they could have been joining the EU in a few years...


The main point of contention is that a significant number of those people with feelings and aspirations seem to feel and aspire to join Russia over the EU . . .
Original post by Cryptographic
Oh dear, seat on UN security council, the best special forces in the world (excluding the Israelis, almost every special forces in the world are based on our and are/have been trained by Britain's special forces) , 1st/2nd most powerful city in the world, 2nd best education system in the western world, (4th?) biggest military expenditure, one of the biggest GDPs. Britain still has considerable political clout. However unlike Russia etc, we have much more 'soft power'.


UN Security Council? What does that even mean anymore? Any rich enough country gets on that list. What big role has Britain played, apart from impotent speeches by Hague?

I agree, our special forces are brilliant. But how does this translate into political clout, apart from sending troops here and there to Africa sometimes (and then moaning about the expenditure at home)?

What do you mean by "powerful"? Yeah London generates a lot of wealth, but so does New York, Tokyo and increasingly Beijing as the Chinese move into services.

Lol our education system has been shown again and again to be mediocre. A quick internet search will tell you we're way behind the Europeans, particularly the Nordics, in education. I like how you limited it to "Western world" too, it makes me think you know how much the Asians beat us.

Haha, the USA spends the most, followed by China. We're responsible for 3% of global military expenditure. While we've been.making cuts and hoping for volunteers, Russia's military spending has gone up by like 40% over the last 10 years. Like I mentioned earlier, we're also way behind with technology. In America, DARPA is investigating crazy ideas for the military. As for nuclear weapons? Every Tom Dick and Harry has them now.

Yeah we have big GDP, but why does that matter when literally hundreds of thousands of people go to food banks? Why does that matter when austerity has hit us so badly, and jobs are harder to get than ever? We've seen no rise in real wages for years too.

Sorry man but Britain really is insignificant, and we're only becoming more so everyday.


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(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by JoshBedford
We definitely don't have the best military in the world, man-for-man Israel probably has the best military. The US spends about half of their GDP on Military Spending, and is probably the most formidable force on the planet. This is all speculation, but there are several countries I can think of with better armed forces than us.

You do have a point with the equipment though. All our stuff is setup to fight in the middle east. However, think about the camps where UK troop train at. Green, foresty areas of the UK, and then urban training camps would use the same/similar tactics in the Ukraine as they would in the middle east.

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Hahahahahahaaaa!! Good joke.

They are formidable, but not the best.
Original post by yo radical one
There is much more justification for that than there is the Iraq war tbh, Ukraine is a sovereign nation which has just been invaded. Ethnic Ukrainians are being abused now in the places which Russia is now occupying, it seems to wrong to just abandon them.


You are free to go to Ukraine and join anti-russian troops.
Original post by revron77
Lets look at it like this... you want us to go to war with a super power potentially resulting in nuclear armageddon. To prove a point to Russia... that it cannot take land which is mostly ethnic Russian and the people are protesting independence.

I'd much rather have peace than fighting Russia just to win a war built on egos and no true valid reason.

Would you say the same if an Arab nation invaded Israel claiming ethnicity as a reason?Or if Iran was bombing Israel claiming they're saving Palestinians from the regime?
Does anybody remember what Churchill said?
Original post by Abstraction
UN Security Council? What does that even mean anymore? Any rich enough country gets on that list. What big role has Britain played, apart from impotent speeches by Hague?

I agree, our special forces are brilliant. But how does this translate into political clout, apart from sending troops here and there to Africa sometimes (and then moaning about the expenditure at home)?

What do you mean by "powerful"? Yeah London generates a lot of wealth, but so does New York, Tokyo and increasingly Beijing as the Chinese move into services.

Lol our education system has been shown again and again to be mediocre. A quick internet search will tell you we're way behind the Europeans, particularly the Nordics, in education. I like how you limited it to "Western world" too, it makes me think you know how much the Asians beat us.

Haha, the USA spends the most, followed by China. We're responsible for 3% of global military expenditure. While we've been.making cuts and hoping for volunteers, Russia's military spending has gone up by like 40% over the last 10 years. Like I mentioned earlier, we're also way behind with technology. In America, DARPA is investigating crazy ideas for the military. As for nuclear weapons? Every Tom Dick and Harry has them now.

Yeah we have big GDP, but why does that matter when literally hundreds of thousands of people go to food banks? Why does that matter when austerity has hit us so badly, and jobs are harder to get than ever? We've seen no rise in real wages for years too.

Sorry man but Britain really is insignificant, and we're only becoming more so everyday.


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Well, yeh. If you want to pick and choose things then obviously Britain isn't the best in the world,.

Take an average of the strength of the British military, education system and welfare system then we are far better than virtually every country on earth.

Fact is that Brian has a better military then most.

Fact is that Britain has some of the best education systems around.

Fact is that Britain had a decent welfare system.

Very few countries including Russia and etc can claim to be world class in all areas.
Reply 55
I actually like Cameron ,we did not go to war against syria ,and we did not go to war with russia this time,it's the good thing to do,it's none of our business..
Original post by RoyalMarine
So Russia can invade and split nations as they like?If we let Putin or anyone else behave like this,he will go on until there is nothing left.Also notice that extremist right parties are probably going to win in EU nations so the message we are giving is that anyone can invade other nations without retaliation.


I share your view. I can't help but think actually Obama, Merkel and several others are all weak on defence, I can't help but think despite supporting Obama in 2012 how different it would have been with say Bush/Blair, or perhaps Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin. You've got to be willing to engage military conflict with Russia. It's a lesser evil than allowing them to invade other sovereign nations. Get 100,000 NATO troops on the border. Stand tall. We the West are the biggest dogs in the yard. We determine how events will be played out, not Communists. It won't come to full on conflict, both US/RUS have too much to lose, but you've got to be tough. If Putin rolls into Donetsk we should put 100,000 NATO troops in Russia.

I am a staunch interventionist. It's right to get involved in other countries affairs, whether that be Middle East or anywhere else, and it's right that great nations play a part in world affairs. We shouldn't just sit on this little island and do nothing.

An Eboracum Government will be as tough as Thatcher. I'd renew our Nuclear Program and increase our military budget by 20%. Freedom is never more than a generation away from extinction. We don't pass it on to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on to our children to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the West when man was free.
(edited 9 years ago)
doesnt really affect the UK. Cameron cant do much when countries like Germany and France are not really bothered , Germany has a far greater impact on Russia than the UK.
Why? The entire idea of nations in former Soviet countries is very ill defined. They are very much arbitrary lines drawn on a map. Many of those in crimia identify as Russian.

In addition wwhat exactly can he say? "You can't invade other nations because you think it's in their (or your) best interest, that's out job"

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