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German as essay grammar

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As in you still need to change the verb "to have/to be" to the respective subject.

e.g. Ich habe gegessen
Du hast gegessen.
Er hat gegessen.
Wir haben gegessen.

I'll carry on tomorrow.

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so "ich habe gegessen" can mean I have eaten & I had eaten?

Reply 21

martin607

Original post by Danny.L

so "ich habe gegessen" can mean I have eaten & I had eaten?

No! "Ich habe gegessen" means "I have eaten" (or "I ate" -see below) . "I had eaten" is the pluperfect tense
and would be "ich hatte gegessen".

But it is a bit more complicated than that. In English we have two tenses (the present perfect and the past simple) which convey different situations and are used both in speaking and writing. In German there are also two "past" tenses but their use depends partly on whether you are speaking or writing formally. The German tenses are called the perfect (ich habe gegessen) and the past (ich aß).

"ich habe gegessen" means both "I have eaten" and "I ate" and is used in speech. It is also used in writing if there is a sense of incompleteness. Examples:
"Wir haben noch nicht gegessen" means "we haven't eaten yet", say if someone arrives a bit late for a meal.
"Gestern habe ich viel gegessen" means "I ate a lot yesterday".
As you can see in the two examples in English we use the present perfect if something isn't fully finalised in the past but we use the past simple if the action is completely finished.

The past tense is typical of formal writing. Say you were writing a report about some refugees, you might write ,,Die Asylanten hatten Hunger und aßen viel" (the refugees were hungry and ate a lot). As it is a written report you would probably use the past tense rather than the perfect tense.

Final point: the past tense of some very common verbs e.g. ich war; ich konnte, ich musste sound fine in speaking, but using the past of less common verbs when speaking can sound a bit "snooty"!

Hope that helps a bit. Unfortunately there are whole chapters on this but that's a starter.

Reply 22

martin607

Original post by XcitingStuart

Sorry that this was done quite quickly. I'll update and set out nice if I have time.

It would be easier to explain it in English first
(made up)

I ate a banana (imperfect)
I had eaten a banana (perfect)

I was anorexic (imperfect)
I had been anorexic (perfect)

I became (imperfect)
I had become (perfect)

Notice that the "imperfect" past tense is without "had". I think the best example for explaining the differences is the "I ate/had eaten" example.

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Sorry but as an English teacher I have to correct your terminology. I wonder if you are using the names of tenses in European languages e.g. French rather than the ones we use for English. That may be because nobody teaches English grammar these days (and didn't even when I was a boy decades ago!!).

"I ate a banana" is called the "past simple" - used for completed actions in the past.
"I have eaten a banana" is called the "present perfect" - used for recent actions or those that are incomplete. There is some relationship to the present e.g. "Have you done your homework?" You may have started but not finished!
"I was eating a banana" is called the "past continuous" - the term "imperfect" is more commonly used for French grammar for example.
"I had eaten a banana" is called the past perfect in English terminology. For French etc. it's called the Pluperfect and the German term is "Plusquamperfekt". The past perfect is used for an action before a past action e.g. "They had left before we arrived."

The same points apply to your examples about anorexia etc.

Reply 23

Rorschach II

Original post by Danny.L

so "ich habe gegessen" can mean I have eaten & I had eaten?

Original post by Danny.L

so "ich habe gegessen" can mean I have eaten & I had eaten?

Sorry, what I meant was you can't say "Ich hat gegessen", you'll have to say "Ich habe gegessen".

About the "I had eaten" sorry I never properly read through my post after I typed it as I was in a massive rush.

To say "I had eaten" you'll have to say "Ich hatte gegessen"

I never really thought of that before, so I consulted some native speakers on an app I have to make sure and they said
"you have to mind that then you are describing an action that happened before an other action like: 'When I had eaten a sandwich I went to bed.' : 'Als ich mein Sandwich gegessen hatte, ging ich ins Bett.'"

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Reply 24

Rorschach II

I have realised I haven't been very clear & mistaken in some parts about past tense (I have said had instead of has and have) (never read through slowly).

By the way, words like seine, deine, ihre etc. endings follow that of "eine" the indefinite article, but if it's plural, they must follow the "without article" endings.

sich, dich, mich etc. are accusative, so follow after, for example, "für", an accusative preposition.
mir, dir, euer etc. are dative.

you use the dative ones like you would usually use "me" in English.

I'm not sure, but I think you only use the accusative ones after prepositions. So not as the direct object etc. I emphasise I don't really know.

When using reflective verbs, usually they are together. So when the subject comes after a verb, keep the e.g. "sich" by the verb.

e.g. Deshalb (verb) sich (subject).

With infinitive clauses, keep the "sich" as it would be in a normal sentence. (I THINK)

e.g. bla bla bla, sich ... zu (infinitive verb).

Sorry this is very messy. I'm rushing this on tablet.

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Reply 25

Rorschach II

Original post by martin607

Sorry but as an English teacher I have to correct your terminology. I wonder if you are using the names of tenses in European languages e.g. French rather than the ones we use for English. That may be because nobody teaches English grammar these days (and didn't even when I was a boy decades ago!!).

"I ate a banana" is called the "past simple" - used for completed actions in the past.
"I have eaten a banana" is called the "present perfect" - used for recent actions or those that are incomplete. There is some relationship to the present e.g. "Have you done your homework?" You may ha8ve started but not finished!
"I was eating a banana" is called the "past continuous" - the term "imperfect" is more commonly used for French grammar for example.
"I had eaten a banana" is called the past perfect in English terminology. For French etc. it's called the Pluperfect and the German term is "Plusquamperfekt". The past perfect is used for an action before a past action e.g. "They had left before we arrived."

The same points apply to your examples about anorexia etc.

I was using the terminology my German teacher used, but thanks anyway! :-)

I don't think there's no where near as much use for the progressive tenses in German as in English.

No, they barely teach any grammar these days, even though it would make so much sense too, for when learning languages and just better English. Most people only know how to convey stuff from what comes natural to them (if that makes sense), not because they understand why they do it.

I've only pieced bits of grammar together from what my German teacher has told me & bits I have searched up online (like about progressive tenses etc.) I never really thought about differing names from language to language.

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Reply 26

trianglehate

Original post by XcitingStuart

Are you an A Level student by any chance? Sorry, I randomly came across this thread and saw your post. Your knowledge of German grammar is extremely good!

Reply 27

Rorschach II

Original post by trianglehate

Are you an A Level student by any chance? Sorry, I randomly came across this thread and saw your post. Your knowledge of German grammar is extremely good!

Yes, at AS level at the moment. xD I really like (learning) the German language, and it seems to be my niche.

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Reply 28

trianglehate

Original post by XcitingStuart

Yes, at AS level at the moment. xD I really like (learning) the German language, and it seems to be my niche.

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Haha that's good! It's definitely a great language to learn!

Wenn Sie irgendeine Hilfe oder Übung mit Deutsch möchten, bitte schicken Sie mir ein E-Mail :smile:

Ich bin Student der Germanistik im ersten Jahr der Universität.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 29

Rorschach II

Original post by trianglehate

Haha that's good! It's definitely a great language to learn!

Wenn Sie irgendeine Hilfe oder Übung mit Deutsch möchten, bitte schicken Sie mir ein E-Mail :smile:

Ich bin Student der Germanistik im ersten Jahr der Universität.

Please can you list the grammar yet to learn (in A2 and university)?

I know there's subjunctive (and know a tiny bit about that), but that's about it.

I'm curious. xD

Also your method of/motivation for learning vocabulary xD.

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Reply 30

trianglehate

Original post by XcitingStuart

What have you been taught so far in AS? We covered reflexive pronouns, interrogative pronouns/adverbs, Futur II (future perfect), conditional and the passive. So far this year as it's a case of bringing everybody up to the same level we have literally covered pretty much all the grammar I was taught in AS and A2 :smile:

Are you thinking of studying German at university?

Ah good old vocab revision! I was awful at this during A Level, I used to practice using revision cards but didn't really find it effective. My lecturer recommended Quizlet (you might have heard of it?) and I personally have found it to be a great revision tool! There are many different techniques on the website for revising vocab, definitely worth trying out :smile:

www.quizlet.com

Reply 31

Rorschach II

Original post by trianglehate

www.quizlet.com

Well I know a lot about cases (I think) with the articles and adjective endings. I know the "werde" future tense (if that makes sense) but I know there's more to that (as suggested in your post). I've briefly seen online about e.g. "had eaten" and "(something) is to be found".

I've learnt about conditional (but haven't learnt many common verbs in conditional). I know about the modal verbs etc. in conditional.

I have also learnt about passive voice (which reminds me I need to make a post about :-P)

(Must go, I'll edit post later)

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Reply 32

Rorschach II

tl;dr version

There's active voice and passive voice.
You are using it all the time in English without realising it.
I'll show them in English first

Active voice "I open the door"
Passive voice "The door is opened"
To form passive voice, the OBJECT "the door" becomes the SUBJECT. You then use "to be (+ past participle)"
You can also say "The door is opened by the teacher."
The teacher is the AGENT; the thing that causes the action.

This is all in present tense at the moment.
More examples in spoiler

Spoiler

So what's the passive voice of the following sentences. Uncover spoiler once you have had a try.

"The lion eats me"

Spoiler

"The sun burns my skin."

Spoiler

"New people often troll the student room."

Spoiler

Check next post or it'll be confusing in one massive text.

Reply 33

Rorschach II

Now, in German there are two ways of doing this.
There's "sein" passive and "werden" passive.

It will be explained clearly by examples in a moment.

"sein" passive

Spoiler

"werden" passive

Spoiler

"sein" passive -
"Die Tür ist aufgemacht/geöffnet."
"The door is opened."

"werden" passive -
"Die Tür wird von dem Lehrer aufgemacht/geöffnet."
"The door is opened by the male teacher."
This is formed by using the preposition "von (+ dative)"

You will still need to change "sein" and "werden" accordingly.

Spoiler

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 34

Rorschach II

Apply the same principles about passive voice in English in the past tense to get some answers.

e.g.
The window was opened.
The teachers were scolded by the inspector.

Examples!

Translate the following sentences, then uncover spoilers!

The window is open
("window" is "das Fenster" and "to open" is "offnen - öffnete - hat geöffnet")

Spoiler

LINE BREAK

The window was opened by the female teacher.

Is it "sein" or "werden" passive;
do you know more about the action?

Spoiler

LINE BREAK

Don't rush this one or you'll get it wrong.
Think about the correct form to use.
Think about "sein" or "werden" and tense of it

Spoiler

Do the agent first then the "prize" (that's how it is in the example).

"I was given a prize by the school."

Spoiler

LINE BREAK

A lot easier one!
"The washine machine is broken."
washing machine - der Waschmaschine
to break - brechen - brach - hat/ist gebrochen

Spoiler

EDIT #1: Changed
"Das Fenster wird von der Lehrerin geöffnet." to
"Das Fenster wurde von der Lehrerin geöffnet."

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 35

Rorschach II

Original post by lilafrubexoxo

Original post by Danny.L

Original post by Nisr123

Sorry that I have taken so long.
These things do take me ages to make, and I haven't had the time to put aside.

Passive is now updated, and separated into three posts
Posts 33, 34, 35.

If you don't understand something say, and if you think something is inconsistent say, because I make mistakes occasionally, like with the "I have eaten/I had eaten". :P