Sex, Virginity and Men

Original post by Mankytoes

To make it simple- when you're with someone, you have some say over their behaviour. If you're living together, you don't book long trips away, you discuss it first. However, you have no say over anyone's behaviour when you aren't together. If my girlfriend said "I'm going to America for a month", I'd say "wo, lets discuss first how this is going to work". However, if when I met her she told me she'd just gone to America, I wouldn't say "without me!? I really want to go there!".

Again, it sounds like you're more looking for some fairytale romance than a real, adult relationship. It sounds like you copied that speech off some God awful romcom. Real relationships are messy, people have history, that's life, you're life hasn't been perfect, but whose has? And yet you still want this storybook virgin wife. I dunno, that girl sounds like a pretty ****ty person, so maybe you're still hurting, but I hope you eventually meet a girl and realise her sexual history doesn't matter, what matters is that you love and respect each other.

But if them having sex with other people doesnt matter why do you want to have a say that they cant have sex with other people.

I think your view is valid but also narrow.. if thats what you want go for it, and yes it is the typical western view but you do overlook the fact that a huge number of people in the world do wait until marriage and they arent delusional people, and theres plenty of people in open relationships too, your way of relationships is not the be all end all or the most superior way, and in my personal opinion it makes the least sense. I feel like im trapped in the wrong country or time period personally. I dont really want to be forced to change my pov or interpretation of sex and romance, I honestly did not think I was asking for a lot, just one person to be mine and no one elses, I have friends whove slept with well over 100 people, starting from a young age, and a good number of their sexual "conquests" virgins (who were often callously dumped shortly after and devastated), so I guess I didnt think I was asking for a lot to just have 1 person in my life who I would do it right with, stay with, to lose my virginity to a virgin, go through everything together and be really happy. I wanted that probably since I was at least 14. Maybe I did expect too much from another person. I expected complete trust, openness and honesty, someone to share everything about myself with, and I do have a really big sense of honour that for example it'd be fundamentally wrong to do things like lie, watch porn behind my partners back because it's disrespectful watching other women etc. I probably got carried away with what I thought I could have and expect from another person. Certainly I got hurt a lot and I am still really depressed. I dont see anything wrong with having high standards, apart from when you are disappointed because of them. But then again, I dont see the point making any effort for anything less.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 142

OP

Original post by icdjabtjk

But if them having sex with other people doesnt matter why do you want to have a say that they cant have sex with other people

Right, that's true.

Your point is that if a man consents to his wife having sex with others, then he in principle has no problem with his wife having sex with others.

The time variance seems to me irrelevant, because, if you consent to your wife having sex with others before marriage, then you should, after discussing it, also consent to her having sex with others in marriage.

If she told you that she was about to sleep with someone else and discussed it with you beforehand, then she is not abusing your trust, under the premise of the acceptance that her sleeping with others is not problematic in of itself.

The only thing she is harming is your ego.

Which is what Mankytoes is suggesting that icdjabtjk is concerned with.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 143

xoflower

14

Original post by Mankytoes

True, but most? Also, a lot of women don't have sex because they're insecure and worried about being slut shamed.

Not really. Why would they worry about that when there about plenty of women that sleep around. Also those that are slut shamed let people know that they have plenty of sex. A woman can easily have sex with many men without everyone knowing.

Most women that don't have sex do it maybe due to insecurity... but also because they don't think that sex is all that amazing when they could easily orgasm themself. Also, the STD and pregnancy risk. Most women also don't want to feel used by men.

Reply 144

Original post by icdjabtjk

But if them having sex with other people doesnt matter why do you want to have a say that they cant have sex with other people

It does matter when we're in a relationship. Again- when you're with someone, you have some say over their behaviour. But you have no say over anyone's behaviour when you aren't together.

A relationship has certain rules that you agree together, but these can't be binding before or after the relationship. Some couples let each other have sex with other people, kiss other people, dance with other people... there's no problem with any of this, as long as it's clearly understood by both of you.

It's also important these rules are the same for both of you in an equal relationship. You've admitted you'd want to apply different rules- you've had a previous sexual partner, but she isn't allowed to have had any. Not only are you making rules that apply before you were together, you are making unequal rules. Obviously this is entirely your choice, but I don't think it's a healthy way to form relationships.

Original post by xoflower

Not really. Why would they worry about that when there about plenty of women that sleep around. Also those that are slut shamed let people know that they have plenty of sex. A woman can easily have sex with many men without everyone knowing.

Most women that don't have sex do it maybe due to insecurity... but also because they don't think that sex is all that amazing when they could easily orgasm themself. Also, the STD and pregnancy risk. Most women also don't want to feel used by men.

It's nice that you apparantly haven't experienced this, but some women get treated like absolute **** for having sex. Men and women do this, but in my experience it's when it's other women doing it that it's really pervasive and upsetting for the women involved. It's less nice that you are implying any women who get slut shamed are basically asking for it. Of course people find out, that's very naive, not many men, especially young men, don't tell anyone when they have casual sex.

I can easily orgasm myself, but it doesn't compare to sex. That's like saying "why travel the world, we can just watch the travel channel".

If you feel that in casual sex the men are inherently using the women, that shows the sort of sexist indoctrination I'm talking about. If both people are wanting casual sex, why is the man using the woman, anymore than the woman is using the man?

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 145

Original post by Mankytoes

It does matter when we're in a relationship. Again- when you're with someone, you have some say over their behaviour. But you have no say over anyone's behaviour when you aren't together.

A relationship has certain rules that you agree together, but these can't be binding before or after the relationship. Some couples let each other have sex with other people, kiss other people, dance with other people... there's no problem with any of this, as long as it's clearly understood by both of you.

It's also important these rules are the same for both of you in an equal relationship. You've admitted you'd want to apply different rules- you've had a previous sexual partner, but she isn't allowed to have had any. Not only are you making rules that apply before you were together, you are making unequal rules. Obviously this is entirely your choice, but I don't think it's a healthy way to form relationships.

But why in your relationships do you have those rules that your partner shouldnt have sex with other people whilst youre together in the first place? Why do you need to have a say over that part of their behaviour if them having sex with other people shouldnt matter?

Reply 146

Original post by icdjabtjk

But why in your relationships do you have those rules that your partner shouldnt have sex with other people whilst youre together in the first place? Why do you need to have a say over that part of their behaviour if them having sex with other people shouldnt matter?

Because us having sex with other people would upset our partner, because we enjoy commiting to someone, because we satisfy each other's needs.

I only said having sex with other people doesn't matter before you met. When you're part of a couple, there's a bond between you, shared responsibility. How can that shared responsibility exist before you even know each other? It makes no sense.

Reply 147

OP

Original post by TurboCretin

Unlike you (apparently) I don't see change as inherently a bad thing. It is of little consequence what the racial balance of the population is in this country, although I do think that Islam conflicts with some of our more valuable cultural values.

You owe it to your ancestors man. Assuming you're ethnically British (but the point doesn't change for anyone else), do you think they would've bothered if they knew you would just give up your birthright so easily? :s-smilie:

Fight for your heritage!

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 148

Original post by Mankytoes

Because us having sex with other people would upset our partner, because we enjoy commiting to someone, because we satisfy each other's needs.

I only said having sex with other people doesn't matter before you met. When you're part of a couple, there's a bond between you, shared responsibility. How can that shared responsibility exist before you even know each other? It makes no sense.

Why does your partner having sex with someone today upset you but it doesnt matter before you meet? Lets say take one person from your partners past, move them to today, the exact same sex she had with them back then is now happening today instead, but now it's suddenly gone from not mattering to upsetting to you?

Why do you say you "enjoy committing to someone" but are happy to commit to one person, then another, then another. Does it really make a huge difference having an overlap where you commit to more than one of them at a time since you are committing to multiple people in your life anyway?

What if to "satisfy her needs" a sexually curious woman who wants to experience a lot of different sexual things needed to have 10 years of casual sex, having lots of unique experiences with sexually different people, before finally settling down to marry and being fully satisfied by you. Yet in another scenario she cant have casual sex with those same people, experiencing all the same things she does with them, during the relationship instead of before it to "satisfy her needs" and her curiousity. Why not?

Why do you think that you have a "shared responsibility" to not sleep with other people whilst youre together if your partner sleeping with other people before you doesnt matter? Why should this responsibility exist at all in the present if who your partner has had sex with doesnt matter?

In my opinion the reason people dont want their partner to sleep with other people in the present is the same reason people dont want their partner to have a sexual history, but people accept this compromise and try to block out their partners past, not be too bothered by it etc, but it's not ideal.. Otherwise if it was ideal I dont see why you wouldnt allow your partner to sleep with others in the present also.

Reply 149

flossicles

3

Original post by Mankytoes

Because us having sex with other people would upset our partner, because we enjoy commiting to someone, because we satisfy each other's needs.

I only said having sex with other people doesn't matter before you met. When you're part of a couple, there's a bond between you, shared responsibility. How can that shared responsibility exist before you even know each other? It makes no sense.

To be honest with you, I really wouldn't entertain this thread anymore. It's a never-ending circlejerk.

Reply 150

TurboCretin

20

Original post by 41b

You owe it to your ancestors man. Assuming you're ethnically British (but the point doesn't change for anyone else), do you think they would've bothered if they knew you would just give up your birthright so easily? :s-smilie:

Fight for your heritage!

The most I could possibly owe to my ancestors is to have kids myself, which will be the extent my input on the racial balance of the UK.

I don't understand your use of the term 'birthright' here.

Reply 151

UKIProud

7

because, if you consent to your wife having sex with others before marriage, then you should, after discussing it, also consent to her having sex with others in marriage.

Stupid

Reply 152

Original post by icdjabtjk

Why does your partner having sex with someone today upset you but it doesnt matter before you meet? Lets say take one person from your partners past, move them to today, the exact same sex she had with them back then is now happening today instead, but now it's suddenly gone from not mattering to upsetting to you?

Why do you say you "enjoy committing to someone" but are happy to commit to one person, then another, then another. Does it really make a huge difference having an overlap where you commit to more than one of them at a time since you are committing to multiple people in your life anyway?

What if to "satisfy her needs" a sexually curious woman who wants to experience a lot of different sexual things needed to have 10 years of casual sex, having lots of unique experiences with sexually different people, before finally settling down to marry and being fully satisfied by you. Yet in another scenario she cant have casual sex with those same people, experiencing all the same things she does with them, during the relationship instead of before it to "satisfy her needs" and her curiousity. Why not?

Why do you think that you have a "shared responsibility" to not sleep with other people whilst youre together if your partner sleeping with other people before you doesnt matter? Why should this responsibility exist at all in the present if who your partner has had sex with doesnt matter?

In my opinion the reason people dont want their partner to sleep with other people in the present is the same reason people dont want their partner to have a sexual history, but people accept this compromise and try to block out their partners past, not be too bothered by it etc, but it's not ideal.. Otherwise if it was ideal I dont see why you wouldnt allow your partner to sleep with others in the present also.

I really feel I've answered this as well as I can. And in that situation, yes, because she's not betraying my trust. That's the real issue.

Don't start making assumptions about my life, I'm with my second girlfriend, but she's the only really serious one, the only girl I've ever loved, we're coming on four years together now and still looking good, it's looking increasingly likely that we'll spend our whole lives together.

She can, I've already said I think open relationships are fine. Just for me personally, in my current relationship, we're happier monogamous.

Seriously, again, I've answered all that, do you not feel we're going round in circles a bit here? If you don't like or accept my answers fine, but I don't see what's to be gained by me repeating myself.

Reply 153

P357

12

Original post by Mankytoes

Well you've failed to even attempt to refute my points. It's a very simple question I'm asking you- why should single, adult women not have casual sexual intercourse if they want to?

Obviously people will choose who they want to have relationships with, I just think it's bizarre to prioritise sexual history over things like kindness, intelligence, humour, sexual attraction, shared interests, etc.

^The cuckold/deviant potential with this one is huge.

And as for OP...Actually,no-you don't ask that kind of question on a student forum(mostly frequented by nerdy/feminine/"sensitive" guys) and expect answers in line with patriarchal thinking. That's really not how that kind of thing works.

Reply 154

OP

Original post by P357

^The cuckold/deviant potential with this one is huge.

And as for OP...Actually,no-you don't ask that kind of question on a student forum(mostly frequented by nerdy/feminine/"sensitive" guys) and expect answers in line with patriarchal thinking. That's really not how that kind of thing works.

Well, see the results.

Reply 155

Original post by Mankytoes

I really feel I've answered this as well as I can. And in that situation, yes, because she's not betraying my trust. That's the real issue.

Don't start making assumptions about my life, I'm with my second girlfriend, but she's the only really serious one, the only girl I've ever loved, we're coming on four years together now and still looking good, it's looking increasingly likely that we'll spend our whole lives together.

She can, I've already said I think open relationships are fine. Just for me personally, in my current relationship, we're happier monogamous.

Seriously, again, I've answered all that, do you not feel we're going round in circles a bit here? If you don't like or accept my answers fine, but I don't see what's to be gained by me repeating myself.

Ok but what you are saying is that you are fine for your partner to sleep with other people whilst she is with you as well? Like if your partner turned to you now and said she loves you and wants to stay with you, but also feels she hasnt got enough of a sexual history/experiences and wants to experiment with others now to make up for that, you'd be ok with that?

Is that what most people who dont mind their partners past feel like as well?

I genuinely want to understand this.

Reply 156

OP

Original post by bassbabe

Aww thank you :smile:

I can assure you I'll have no difficulties with finding a husband who wants me to be a submissive angel, as I'm a virgin myself.

Good. Don't throw it away.

Reply 157

Profesh

20

Original post by 41b

A study showed that marriages where the women had no other sexual partners had an 80% chance of success, for 1 other partner it fell to 50%, for 3 30% and for any more 20%.

A study showed that marriages where the women had no other partners were likely to be steeped in repressive theological dogma of the sort whose corollary is female subjugation.

Reply 158

OP

Original post by Profesh

A study showed that marriages where the women had no other partners were likely to be steeped in repressive theological dogma of the sort whose corollary is female subjugation.

That seemingly bears no consequence on the success of marriage, when considering Catholics, Protestants and nonreligious, whereas virginity is statistically significantly correlated. Look above for the exchange between Turbocretin and me.

Reply 159