I always wondered why they allow job less claimants/newly arrived immigrants to live in London. How it should work....

Council bloke: Welcome, so...any preferences in where you wish to live?
Jobless claimant: London!
Council bloke: Well that's our premium city so unless you can afford property there I think we should try somewhere within your depth yes? I hear Scotland is luvvly.
Jobless Claimant: What about my human rights?
Council bloke: We'd be breaching the human rights of those who CAN afford to live in London by allow your kind to live there en masse. Don't take it personally, do well yourself and maybe one day you'll make it there.
Jobless Claimant: You're right, thanks for the lesson in life goals Mr Council guy *high five*
Closing credits.

I was under the impression that (some) claimants are already being 'forced'or coerced to move to other areas.

Reply 68

moggis

18

Original post by scrotgrot

So what, you believe there is more and more social mobility as time goes on?! What evidence do you have to support that? Everything I have ever seen points the other way.

I don't really care that people don't know this (thanks to the media), it's either true or it isn't.

I don't know who is right on this subject but I do think you are wrong to blame the media.

(What is it with this forum thst so many people think the media is to blame for peoples opinions when increasingly the medias hold on public opinion gets more tenuous by the day ( I think that was tautology,ha))

Regardless/anyway

I can assure you that the subject of mobility is reported on in the Times quite often.

And it suggests that in fact we still have a long way to go and are still failing those at the bottom.

But who reads the Times? Apparently not MatureStudent ( or if he does then it just goes to show how little the media affects peoples opinions :smile:

)

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 69

Alfissti

20

Original post by Bill_Gates

Don't think purely the UK is affected by welfare, it's to do with the nature of the economy. It is too dependent on rent seeking rather than productive means. Only thriving sector is financial services which is the general cause of the mess we are in. Welfare can be cut back and the public sector needs to be cut back in general. We need more private enterprise.

Now now now, we can't forever go on blaming the bankers. Piss poor governance during the 13 years of Liebour government had loads to do with it especially during the era of that idiot Gordon Brown.

In terms of welfare dependency and worklessness UK certainly ranks among the worst in EU,
The numbers speak for themselves, unemployment among native population but fairly low or non-existent unemployment among EU migrants. I myself wonder how on earth UK will survive if ever there was a Brexit of the EU.

Reply 70

Bill_Gates

21

Original post by Alfissti

Now now now, we can't forever go on blaming the bankers. Piss poor governance during the 13 years of Liebour government had loads to do with it especially during the era of that idiot Gordon Brown.

In terms of welfare dependency and worklessness UK certainly ranks among the worst in EU,
The numbers speak for themselves, unemployment among native population but fairly low or non-existent unemployment among EU migrants. I myself wonder how on earth UK will survive if ever there was a Brexit of the EU.

I agree with labour but i feel the whole spectrum of politics in the UK needs a re-think. It's a rich nation, it can afford welfare. France is heading down a similar path. Native population is pretty hopeless but what can you do hey.

Reply 71

scrotgrot

16

Original post by Alfissti

Now now now, we can't forever go on blaming the bankers. Piss poor governance during the 13 years of Liebour government had loads to do with it especially during the era of that idiot Gordon Brown.

In terms of welfare dependency and worklessness UK certainly ranks among the worst in EU,
The numbers speak for themselves, unemployment among native population but fairly low or non-existent unemployment among EU migrants. I myself wonder how on earth UK will survive if ever there was a Brexit of the EU.

Even if there was a skills gap, surely that's the fault of greedy governments wanting work from people while letting other countries pay for their training. Companies have much the same attitude.

I don’t understand how you can blame the unskilled people for a skills gap. Couldn't rises in structural unemployment due to a skills gap have had something to do with the massive economic rebalancing in the 1980s without offering workers any alternative but the dole?

Reply 72

scrotgrot

16

Original post by Jebedee

I always wondered why they allow job less claimants/newly arrived immigrants to live in London. How it should work....

Council bloke: Welcome, so...any preferences in where you wish to live?
Jobless claimant: London!
Council bloke: Well that's our premium city so unless you can afford property there I think we should try somewhere within your depth yes? I hear Scotland is luvvly.
Jobless Claimant: What about my human rights?
Council bloke: We'd be breaching the human rights of those who CAN afford to live in London by allow your kind to live there en masse. Don't take it personally, do well yourself and maybe one day you'll make it there.
Jobless Claimant: You're right, thanks for the lesson in life goals Mr Council guy *high five*
Closing credits.

You don't ask a council employee where you're allowed to live, this isn't North Korea. Though it seems from long experience that right-wingers just looove big state bureaucracy when it's being used to oppress the poor.

Social engineering here is done through the market. As we see with the gentrification of London, the buying up of social housing by private property investment companies and the deportations of many who cannot pay the ridiculous rents to job deserts like Stoke.

It is a stupidly short-sighted, inefficient and self-destructive way to run an economy before even considering the human impact, but then I guess we do have the Tories in.

Reply 73

scrotgrot

16

Original post by Bill_Gates

I agree with labour but i feel the whole spectrum of politics in the UK needs a re-think. It's a rich nation, it can afford welfare. France is heading down a similar path. Native population is pretty hopeless but what can you do hey.

Yep really there needs to be a split in the Tories over Europe and Labour over immigration, that would give us two rump pro globalisation/free trade centrist parties and two insurgent anti globalisation/protectionist fringe parties. I think they'd be about the same size and we could finally discuss things like tariffs and immigration without people calling each other racists or communists or greedy or lazy.

Reply 74

Alfissti

20

Original post by Bill_Gates

I agree with labour but i feel the whole spectrum of politics in the UK needs a re-think. It's a rich nation, it can afford welfare. France is heading down a similar path. Native population is pretty hopeless but what can you do hey.

UK may be a rich nation but it can no longer afford such generous and irresponsible amount of wastage on welfare. Else be a matter of time before it becomes another Greece.

France? Well nothing good comes from there so hardly surprising its in decline.

Politics in UK is just fine, we need a government that can get things done, once you have too many spectrums then the politicking ensures nothing ever gets done or no changes can ever take place. What UK needs now is strong leadership so things can get fixed not allowed to further rot.

Original post by scrotgrot

Even if there was a skills gap, surely that's the fault of greedy governments wanting work from people while letting other countries pay for their training. Companies have much the same attitude.

I don’t understand how you can blame the unskilled people for a skills gap. Couldn't rises in structural unemployment due to a skills gap have had something to do with the massive economic rebalancing in the 1980s without offering workers any alternative but the dole?

It is their own fault for a skills gap, if you can't see the writing on the wall that your profession is no longer secure then it is your OWN responsibility to do something about it. You do realize that it used to be free to get training in the 1980s? There wasn't even university tuition fees back then and the kinds of grants available were extremely generous too.

As an owner of several companies, there just isn't enough in it for me to offer training to someone especially where there isn't a net gain for me. Not in any big numbers at least. Companies are not charities.

1980s rebalancing did loads of good, however it is wrong to blame today's problems on the 1980s, something that happened 30 years on simply no longer has any bearing or mostly minimal which should have been addressed by 13 years of Liebour government.

Deport the poor.

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