Why offending religion isn't "racism" Watch

NotGodofWorld
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Make a statement questioning religion(not just belief in god but the organizations and systems of religion) and you are quickly labeled a racist. Why do we use the this word in this case and with the prejudice of race? Its illogical as religion is chosen by an individual while a religion is not.
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SCIENCE :D
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Yes, Religion is optional and race is not. One of the dangers of Religion is that people feel so strongly about it that they view it as a race, and that you are therefore someone who says anything negative about a religion is being racist. People take religion to seriously basically, by all means let it guide you're belief but don't let it control your life.
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sadly
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(Original post by NotGodofWorld)
Make a statement questioning religion(not just belief in god but the organizations and systems of religion) and you are quickly labeled a racist. Why do we use the this word in this case and with the prejudice of race? Its illogical as religion is chosen by an individual while a religion is not.
I agree lol but I think people say it's racist especially in the case of Islam because you commonly associate Islam with middle eastern women and men with beards and scarves like there are very bad stereotypes linking certain races to religions but I don't agree with that as a black Muslim lol
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Bang Outta Order
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Yes, yes, we get it, for God's sake, excuse the pun
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Pinkberry_y
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Another day, another religion thread
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will'o'wisp
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(Original post by NotGodofWorld)
Make a statement questioning religion(not just belief in god but the organizations and systems of religion) and you are quickly labeled a racist. Why do we use the this word in this case and with the prejudice of race? Its illogical as religion is chosen by an individual while a religion is not.
Religion=/= Race

/Thread
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l'etranger
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(Original post by SCIENCE :D)
Yes, Religion is optional and race is not.
Why do so many ''educated'' people think that something not being optional makes it ok? Firstly nobody chooses their religion, a Muslim can't just stop believing in Allah any more than I can stop believing my eyes are brown. Secondly if I were born a pychopath would that be ok, should you accept for who I am?


Our social system has retained these strange neo-Christian principles of free will when in reality every action we undertake is not a product of free will, but of our underlying chemistry.
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undercxver
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Izlam

Mozlem

Arabz

Its all the same for most people lmaooo thick and a half
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Manitude
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(Original post by l'etranger)
Why do so many ''educated'' people think that something not being optional makes it ok? Firstly nobody chooses their religion, a Muslim can't just stop believing in Allah any more than I can stop believing my eyes are brown. Secondly if I were born a pychopath would that be ok, should you accept for who I am?


Our social system has retained these strange neo-Christian principles of free will when in reality every action we undertake is not a product of free will, but of out underlying chemistry.
You can't necessarily MAKE someone change their religion (some people are too entrenched), but if it is possible for anyone to change their religion then it must always be a choice. Admittedly it won't feel like a choice when everyone around you believes the same thing and there are enormous social (or in some cases criminal) repercussions for openly rejecting their dogma, but it is a choice.

The vast majority of Muslims and Christians are Muslims and Christians because their parents were Muslims or Christians. If I was born in Saudi Arabia instead of England, I'd be a Muslim. If I was born 1500 years earlier then I'd have been raised as a Pagan rather than a Christian. If I didn't have the resources or the freedom to be able to challenge what I was taught as a challenge then I would never have chosen to reject Christianity.
I have very much decided that I am an agnostic atheist - I have chosen my religion (or lack thereof).
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l'etranger
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(Original post by Manitude)
You can't necessarily MAKE someone change their religion (some people are too entrenched), but if it is possible for anyone to change their religion then it must always be a choice. Admittedly it won't feel like a choice when everyone around you believes the same thing and there are enormous social (or in some cases criminal) repercussions for openly rejecting their dogma, but it is a choice.

The vast majority of Muslims and Christians are Muslims and Christians because their parents were Muslims or Christians. If I was born in Saudi Arabia instead of England, I'd be a Muslim. If I was born 1500 years earlier then I'd have been raised as a Pagan rather than a Christian. If I didn't have the resources or the freedom to be able to challenge what I was taught as a challenge then I would never have chosen to reject Christianity.
I have very much decided that I am an agnostic atheist - I have chosen my religion (or lack thereof).
It's not a choice. You did not choose to be an agnostic Atheist, you were probably born to White parents of lapsed Christian background and as such a religious worldview was never seriously presented to you, you are as entrenched in your belief as a Muslim. There is no difference.
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Manitude
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(Original post by l'etranger)
It's not a choice. You did not choose to be an agnostic Atheist, you were probably born to White parents of lapsed Christian background and as such a religious worldview was never seriously presented to you, you are as entrenched in your belief as a Muslim. There is no difference.
I went to a faith school. As far as every teacher I had at that school was concerned, the Bible was sacred. We had weekly assemblies with the priest, near weekly Bible study sessions, and prayed up to three times each day. When I left that school there was no doubt in my mind that God was real. It wasn't until I learnt more about the world that I started to question this.

I am prepared to entertain solid evidence of a god presented by a religion. I've yet to see anything worthy of worship.
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l'etranger
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(Original post by Manitude)
I went to a faith school. As far as every teacher I had at that school was concerned, the Bible was sacred. We had weekly assemblies with the priest, near weekly Bible study sessions, and prayed up to three times each day. When I left that school there was no doubt in my mind that God was real. It wasn't until I learnt more about the world that I started to question this.
Irrelevant.

(Original post by Manitude)
I am prepared to entertain solid evidence of a god presented by a religion. I've yet to see anything worthy of worship.
Your subjective concept of what evidence entails is influenced by your background, to a Muslim the way the ecosystem fits together is a evidence of an intelligent designer.
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Good bloke
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(Original post by l'etranger)
Your subjective concept of what evidence entails is influenced by your background, to a Muslim the way the ecosystem fits together is a evidence of an intelligent designer.
You seem to like to put words into other people's mouths.

How do you explain all the ex-Moslems? Having been brought up in entrenched Moslem homes, among an Islamic community, by your reckoning they couldn't possibly have made their escape. But they did.
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l'etranger
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(Original post by Good bloke)
You seem to like to put words into other people's mouths.
If that's what it takes to make them sound more intelligent then be it so.

(Original post by Good bloke)
How do you explain all the ex-Moslems? Having been brought up in entrenched Moslem homes, among an Islamic community, by your reckoning they couldn't possibly have made their escape. But they did.
1. It's Muslims, in Arabic the word ''moslem'' means an evil-dooer.

2. None of that implies it's a choice, their biology and their socio-cultural environment lead to them viewing Islam as being incorrect, it's completely deterministic rather than a free choice they have made.
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Manitude
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(Original post by l'etranger)
Irrelevant.
You claimed I'd not been exposed to a truly Christian world view. I demonstrated that was not the case. Of course it's relevant.

Your subjective concept of what evidence entails is influenced by your background, to a Muslim the way the ecosystem fits together is a evidence of an intelligent designer.
Subjective isn't really the word I'd use. The scientific consensus of what constitutes evidence is probably closer to the mark. If a Muslim believes the way the ecosystem fits together is evidence of a creator then good for them, but almost every time I've read about these kinds of things their conclusion ("It's so complex ergo God did it") is based on severely limited observations. I mean, you can always say "God created this thing just this way because reasons", but it doesn't really stand up to much rigorous questioning if you are aware of inconsistencies or really weird stuff like vestigial limbs/organs.

But honestly, this is so unrelated to the actual topic that there's no point continuing this discussion.
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NotGodofWorld
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(Original post by l'etranger)
Why do so many ''educated'' people think that something not being optional makes it ok? Firstly nobody chooses their religion, a Muslim can't just stop believing in Allah any more than I can stop believing my eyes are brown. Secondly if I were born a pychopath would that be ok, should you accept for who I am?


Our social system has retained these strange neo-Christian principles of free will when in reality every action we undertake is not a product of free will, but of our underlying chemistry.
You're actively choosing to follow religion. You're not believing your eyes are brown, its a fact that your eyes are brown. You can stop believing in god if you started accepting reality but that wasn't the argument I was making. There is no choice or belief in what races you are while being part of religion has some element of choice. Believing in god is nt the same as being born into a race
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l'etranger
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(Original post by Manitude)
You claimed I'd not been exposed to a truly Christian world view. I demonstrated that was not the case. Of course it's relevant.
I would not consider a few bible classes at high school to be being raised in a religious environment. Being born into an Amish community is being raised religious, praying 5 times a day, going to Arabic classes every weekend as well as Masjid on friday and secluding yourself from outsiders is being raised religious. I would consider your upbringing nonreligious, but it's only because of your White Christian solipsism you think that is what it means to be raised religious. You are wrong.


(Original post by Manitude)
Subjective isn't really the word I'd use. The scientific consensus of what constitutes evidence is probably closer to the mark. If a Muslim believes the way the ecosystem fits together is evidence of a creator then good for them, but almost every time I've read about these kinds of things their conclusion ("It's so complex ergo God did it" is based on severely limited observations. I mean, you can always say "God created this thing just this way because reasons", but it doesn't really stand up to much rigorous questioning if you are aware of inconsistencies or really weird stuff like vestigial limbs/organs.

But honestly, this is so unrelated to the actual topic that there's no point continuing this discussion.
The scientific method is subject to change as well as being totally subjective, it's basically a process which has been decided upon, you like it and you think that it's useful and I am inclined to agree, but it's not absolute or perfect.



(Original post by NotGodofWorld)
You're actively choosing to follow religion. You're not believing your eyes are brown, its a fact that your eyes are brown. You can stop believing in god if you started accepting reality but that wasn't the argument I was making. There is no choice or belief in what races you are while being part of religion has some element of choice. Believing in god is nt the same as being born into a race
My eyes are a dark brown, but upon closer inspection they are greenish around the outside and if I look really hard there are strands of yellow, I can't really be sure what colour they are, especially given that perception of color varies from person to person, there are no colours, there are waves and there is the subjective way my brain interprets them. There only times I am sure of anything are when I am reading mathematical proofs and physics if it didn't bore the hell out of me.
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NotGodofWorld
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(Original post by undercxver)
Izlam

Mozlem

Arabz

Its all the same for most people lmaooo thick and a half
R u offended by my thread, sorry
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999tigger
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(Original post by NotGodofWorld)
Make a statement questioning religion(not just belief in god but the organizations and systems of religion) and you are quickly labeled a racist. Why do we use the this word in this case and with the prejudice of race? Its illogical as religion is chosen by an individual while a religion is not.
Clearly being anti religion or anti islam is not racist as of itself and anyone who labels it as such is incorrect.

The question would be at the time what else motivates the person? Are some of them also xenophobic or racists becayse the people complained of are almost exclusively brown people? Is it a purely religious condemnation? For some people it is not.
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Good bloke
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(Original post by l'etranger)
It's Muslims, in Arabic the word ''moslem'' means an evil-dooer.
You seem to be under a misapprehension. I was writing in English, not Arabic. If you consult a reputable dictionary you will find that Moslem is a perfectly valid spelling for Muslim, and pre-dates it by many years.

Unlike you, I do believe in free will.
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