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Government thinks mentally ill shouldn't get disability benefit

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Original post by Richard0328
a disability is a disability whether its physical or psychological


not really. a disability is permanent. people can change their minds. or at the very least, do things despite of their mind.

take the example of someone too terrified to leave the house to go to work.

well. they can either go out. or starve to death. while distressing, they are physically capable of leaving the house. if they refuse and starves to death as a result, well it was their choice.
Original post by oldboy2007
not really. a disability is permanent. people can change their minds. or at the very least, do things despite of their mind.

take the example of someone too terrified to leave the house to go to work.

well. they can either go out. or starve to death. while distressing, they are physically capable of leaving the house. if they refuse and starves to death as a result, well it was their choice.


How ignorant and untrue. Some mental illnesses are genetic. Last time I checked, genetics weren't a choice.

Not all disabilities are permanent. I had a disability when I was a child that I grew out of.
I don't usually comment on these - I just use tsr to study, but this caught my attention. I'm 18 now, but i've had metal health illnesses that have affected my life in various ways for a number of years now. The reason I think PIP should be readily available to people with mental health illnesses is the same reason it should go to all disabled people; THEY NEED IT. I'm a student right now but as is, I can't really go to school or hang out with friends because anxiety/depression feels are not worth the effort, and if I actually want to get any qualifications, I don't have time to worry about what people are thinking of me or whether they are staring at me, all the other bs that I know is partially illogical but is pretty much comorbid with anxiety/depression. Thinking of my future, I'm already starting to feel just how much mental illnesses can affect even the most mundane aspects of life and things like finding and keeping a job would be much less of a stressor, I feel, to those who perhaps can't do social interaction all day every day, if PIP were available to them. George Freeman, "taking pills at home" sucks, and limits life in innumerable ways for those that "suffer from anxiety". But our personal independence doesn't matter because we're not "really disabled" right?
Original post by cbreef
Define 'functional'


Are you serious?


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Original post by oldboy2007
not really. a disability is permanent. people can change their minds. or at the very least, do things despite of their mind.

take the example of someone too terrified to leave the house to go to work.

well. they can either go out. or starve to death. while distressing, they are physically capable of leaving the house. if they refuse and starves to death as a result, well it was their choice.


Spoken like someone who doesn't understand mental illness and would like to see the hunger games.


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Original post by paul514
It's supposed to be significant impairment to social or occupational functioning


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So never having a partner, not leaving house for up to 2 weeks, anxiety to point of severe panic and chest pain, not being able to make friends, not eating or overeating, hair loss, weight gain etc not imparement?
Original post by GloriousFailure
Overworked GP's? Don't know if it's different where I'm from - but GP's only do about 3 half-days per week, if that. And mostly they're trying to skive.

Honestly, where I live, people with mental illnesses may as well not bother going to the GP about their problems, as they're completely useless & entirely ignorant (how - after so many years studying, I don't know) - especially if you're under 18.

Maybe it is easy to fake depression etc, I wouldn't know. But GP's certainly fail to see real depression when it's staring them in the face, haha. Or maybe they see it, and just couldn't give a crap - anything to lessen the "workload" and to get home 10 mins early.


Obviously I don't know what your GPs are like, but 2 comments:

1) I've seen/heard literally dozens, maybe hundreds of individuals complain about how their GP is always running late (which means the GP stays late). You are the first to complain they leave early.
2) Recent government changes and drives see GPs do lots of the management of health services (so lots of very long meetings and form-filling), as well as shifts in A&E, as well as home visits, care home visits etc. The part-time GP you describe may well be working a lot more sessions than you realise

If GP waiting times in your area are only a couple days then fair enough - they could be under-worked. If its 2, 3 weeks though - perhaps you can see why they are constantly in a rush?

Regardless my point still stands - remove disability assessments then GPs, lazy or not, will be able to focus more on other duties.
Original post by drbluebox
So never having a partner, not leaving house for up to 2 weeks, anxiety to point of severe panic and chest pain, not being able to make friends, not eating or overeating, hair loss, weight gain etc not imparement?


I didn't assess you lol


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Original post by paul514
Are you serious?


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I'll rephrase. What do you class as a functional life?
Original post by nexttime
Obviously I don't know what your GPs are like, but 2 comments:

1) I've seen/heard literally dozens, maybe hundreds of individuals complain about how their GP is always running late (which means the GP stays late). You are the first to complain they leave early.
2) Recent government changes and drives see GPs do lots of the management of health services (so lots of very long meetings and form-filling), as well as shifts in A&E, as well as home visits, care home visits etc. The part-time GP you describe may well be working a lot more sessions than you realise

If GP waiting times in your area are only a couple days then fair enough - they could be under-worked. If its 2, 3 weeks though - perhaps you can see why they are constantly in a rush?

Regardless my point still stands - remove disability assessments then GPs, lazy or not, will be able to focus more on other duties.

GPs do not carry our assessments for the DWP. Prior to 2005 they were carried out by in house DWP employees - after that date DWP started contracting out assessments.

The DWP has paid millions (in the case of PIP 20% of the cost of the benefit as a whole) to private companies who carry out those assessments.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jan/08/maximus-miss-fitness-to-work-test-targets-despite-spiralling-costs
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/mar/06/maximus-fit-for-work-tests-fail-mental-health-patients-says-doctor

Those stories are about maximus - the private company that carries out fitness tests for ESA (an out of work benefit).
The contract for PIP went to Atos and Capita
http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/atos-maximus-and-capita-forced-to-admit-assessment-failures/ - at the moment Atos are aiming to "only" fail to provide a proper assessment to 1 in 20 applicants (that's ignoring the LARGE number of assessments that are appealed and overturned due to the assessors making things up, ignoring evidence or distorting the facts)

"Over the 3 years from April 2015 to March 2018 the Department expects to spend £1.6 billion on contracts for around 7 million health and disability assessments. " https://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmselect/cmpubacc/727/727.pdf You can guarantee that a good portion of that will go towards the private company's profits.
I had my pip assessment carried out by a nurse. She had to ask me what one of my conditions was. It was also obvious she didn't have a clue on the others either.
Original post by Tiger Rag
I had my pip assessment carried out by a nurse. She had to ask me what one of my conditions was. It was also obvious she didn't have a clue on the others either.


Looking at the NAO review of assessments only Maximum employ any doctors (15% of their assessing staff). Both Atos and Capita on the PIP assessments employ no doctors at all to carry out the assessments.

My OH is STILL waiting to be called for PIP...just got his DWP letter confirming indefinite DLA for another year. I suspect it's because he's likely to go from middle rate care DLA (does not need care during the night) to enhances care PIP (needs lots of small amounts of help with a large number of tasks)...so an extra £27 a week. My hunch is they're using ESA records to front load the PIP transition with those who they assume can be bumped down or off while delaying anyone likely to end up with an increase in support.
Original post by Tiger Rag
I had my pip assessment carried out by a nurse.


I didn't even get an assessment. :nope:
Original post by Snufkin
I didn't even get an assessment. :nope:


I did and it was clear she didn't believe a word I, my consultants or friend said at all. Scored nothing on mobility and 4 on care. Got it looked at again and got 12 on mobility and 11 on care.

She couldn't get her lies straight either.
Original post by cbreef
I'll rephrase. What do you class as a functional life?


It's not for me to class this, we use the diagnostic and statistics manual five for this sort of stuff.

In laymans terms can someone carry out the basic needs for themselves such as shopping, going to work, doctors appointments etc on a REGULAR basis?

If not then you aren't functional.

It's important to remember we look at this from a medical point of view only, how much that costs the tax payer is irrelevant to a health care worker


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(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Tiger Rag
I did and it was clear she didn't believe a word I, my consultants or friend said at all. Scored nothing on mobility and 4 on care. Got it looked at again and got 12 on mobility and 11 on care.

She couldn't get her lies straight either.


That's terrible, how do these people sleep at night. It's good that you were awarded the right amount of points in the end. I'm in the middle of an appeal, trouble is because I wasn't assessed, there's not much paperwork for the judge to review. PIP is a total mess.
Original post by drbluebox
So never having a partner, not leaving house for up to 2 weeks, anxiety to point of severe panic and chest pain, not being able to make friends, not eating or overeating, hair loss, weight gain etc not imparement?

I'm sorry but that just means you've failed in life. Life is harsh.
Original post by Snufkin
That's terrible, how do these people sleep at night. It's good that you were awarded the right amount of points in the end. I'm in the middle of an appeal, trouble is because I wasn't assessed, there's not much paperwork for the judge to review. PIP is a total mess.


I agree, the fact they have people who aren't qualified and sometimes don't even know what the condition is assessing people is a scandal.

How hard would it be to employ people with qualifications to assess mental health problems?.... not very.


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Original post by oldboy2007
I'm sorry but that just means you've failed in life. Life is harsh.


That's funny as I'd say you have failed in life to be a grown up that understands life is different for different people.


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Original post by PQ
Looking at the NAO review of assessments only Maximum employ any doctors (15% of their assessing staff). Both Atos and Capita on the PIP assessments employ no doctors at all to carry out the assessments.

My OH is STILL waiting to be called for PIP...just got his DWP letter confirming indefinite DLA for another year. I suspect it's because he's likely to go from middle rate care DLA (does not need care during the night) to enhances care PIP (needs lots of small amounts of help with a large number of tasks)...so an extra £27 a week. My hunch is they're using ESA records to front load the PIP transition with those who they assume can be bumped down or off while delaying anyone likely to end up with an increase in support.


I suspect you are right on the esa link
However, there is no such thing as a renewal of dla for another year. Especially on indefinite award. You may have had a letter confirming April rises but there are no time frames anymore. It could come next week!! It will tell you your dla ends in 20 weeks and offer you an application for pip.
Don't hold your breath on enhanced rate either. Such hopes are pie in the sky. I know of two people who have gone from high rate care and high rate mobility to zero, nothing. Both have had reconsideration. Again nothing. They may win at tribunal but that can take a year. A year with nothing!!!!!!

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