UK refuses to recognise EU embassy

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Fullofsurprises
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The UK is refusing to recognise the EU ambassador to the UK.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55742664

Pretty much every other country in the world recognises the EU as a diplomatic entity. That's not good enough for Raab, Johnson and the ERG apparently.

I wonder who the real fools are.

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imlikeahermit
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Absolutely pathetic, but if I'm honest, nothing less than what I would expect from this xenophobic government.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Absolutely pathetic, but if I'm honest, nothing less than what I would expect from this xenophobic government.
It's bizarre, almost childlike.

I think Johnson's 'government' are heading for a big fall. Biden will work to the EU and sideline the UK.
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imlikeahermit
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
It's bizarre, almost childlike.

I think Johnson's 'government' are heading for a big fall. Biden will work to the EU and sideline the UK.
Don't worry. We hold all the cards.
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DiddyDec
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Petty and childish, to be expected from the tits running the country.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Absolutely pathetic, but if I'm honest, nothing less than what I would expect from this xenophobic government.
Xenophobic government 🤣🤣🤣🤣

All aside I don't understand what they are trying to achieve by this political muscle flexing, I'm guessing the excuse is the EU isn't a country and is too big for it boot having one! But.... why rock the boat ... just why?
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 1 month ago
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Pythian
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I think I would provisionally agree with the government on this issue.

At it's heart, the EU is a simple & bogstandard supranational organisation created through international treaties - Treaty of Rome, Treaty of Paris etc ... Nothing more. However, it is not a nation state. I think there is an important technical difference.

I think once we go down this road, I am not sure why any other NGO across the world (such as the WHO) cannot also be afforded "diplomatic cover" for their spokesman.
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L i b
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Who genuinely cares? From what it seems, the EU ambassador has the normal range of immunities and so on, and that a discussion on the status is ongoing. If all we're talking about here is an invite to the Queen's garden party or some other diplomatic flummery, I really can't bring myself to give a toss either way.

What can they not do under the current arrangement? Why does this suddenly matter when it's been discussed for months and no conclusion has been arrived at?
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by L i b)
Who genuinely cares? From what it seems, the EU ambassador has the normal range of immunities and so on, and that a discussion on the status is ongoing. If all we're talking about here is an invite to the Queen's garden party or some other diplomatic flummery, I really can't bring myself to give a toss either way.

What can they not do under the current arrangement? Why does this suddenly matter when it's been discussed for months and no conclusion has been arrived at?
While I agree with you almost entirely, the flip side is why, why make waves and gove the EU such a large FU, for no reason or gain?
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Pythian)
I think I would provisionally agree with the government on this issue.

At it's heart, the EU is a simple & bogstandard supranational organisation created through international treaties - Treaty of Rome, Treaty of Paris etc ... Nothing more. However, it is not a nation state. I think there is an important technical difference.

I think once we go down this road, I am not sure why any other NGO across the world (such as the WHO) cannot also be afforded "diplomatic cover" for their spokesman.
Yet the whole point (allegedly) of Brexit was that we were leaving because we did not wish to be part of the grand federalising project to turn the EU into a superstate. Now we've left, our government are pretending it's not any sort of state.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by L i b)
Who genuinely cares? From what it seems, the EU ambassador has the normal range of immunities and so on, and that a discussion on the status is ongoing. If all we're talking about here is an invite to the Queen's garden party or some other diplomatic flummery, I really can't bring myself to give a toss either way.

What can they not do under the current arrangement? Why does this suddenly matter when it's been discussed for months and no conclusion has been arrived at?
It's more than that - it's a question of who we deal with. The big global powers deal with the EU as a diplomatic entity, they perform negotiations, they talk to the EU via EU diplomats as a state. The UK government is trying to get around that for ideological reasons, but it simply marginalises the UK even more than it already has marginalised itself (which is a lot) because whilst most other countries are dealing direct with the EU, the UK will be trying to deal separately with each EU member state and failing, as attempted with the negotiations and also failed.

It's actually a strong indicator that our current government are wildly out of their depth, incompetent, ideological nutters who simply can't face reality.
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Final Fantasy
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Oh look BoJo is confused again.
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L i b
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
While I agree with you almost entirely, the flip side is why, why make waves and gove the EU such a large FU, for no reason or gain?
A very reasonable point.
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L i b
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
It's more than that - it's a question of who we deal with. The big global powers deal with the EU as a diplomatic entity, they perform negotiations, they talk to the EU via EU diplomats as a state. The UK government is trying to get around that for ideological reasons, but it simply marginalises the UK even more than it already has marginalised itself (which is a lot) because whilst most other countries are dealing direct with the EU, the UK will be trying to deal separately with each EU member state and failing, as attempted with the negotiations and also failed.

It's actually a strong indicator that our current government are wildly out of their depth, incompetent, ideological nutters who simply can't face reality.
So far as I can see, it's got nothing to do with how we relate to the EU at all - it's simply a matter of precedence and an honorific that might mean something in terms of standing, but nothing much beyond that. It might be mildly insulting, but does it actually impact on anything material?

I doubt other countries really care how we rank our ambassadors, to be honest.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by L i b)
So far as I can see, it's got nothing to do with how we relate to the EU at all - it's simply a matter of precedence and an honorific that might mean something in terms of standing, but nothing much beyond that. It might be mildly insulting, but does it actually impact on anything material?

I doubt other countries really care how we rank our ambassadors, to be honest.
Not so. It would infer that we have no diplomatic relations with the entity of the EU. That would be in contrast to all other major countries and a significant insult to the EU. I suspect the implications will be fairly serious down the line. It will matter for example when further negotiations have to take place on trade. The UK government idiots are still hoping to play individual EU member states off against each other, a strategy which was proven to be wholly bankrupt in the last round of talks. We are dealing with some pretty stupid people here. The other reason they've done this is to throw more red meat to the morons in the ERG.
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L i b
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Not so. It would infer that we have no diplomatic relations with the entity of the EU.
I think you've got a bit carried away with the headlines here. The UK obviously does have diplomatic relations with the EU and a number of other international organisations too. We deal with the European Commission, as an entity, constantly.

The question, so far as I can see, is one of standing - because it seems that the current or interim status provides all the same immunities and so on that are expected.
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Pythian
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Yet the whole point (allegedly) of Brexit was that we were leaving because we did not wish to be part of the grand federalising project to turn the EU into a superstate. Now we've left, our government are pretending it's not any sort of state.
I appreciate that for a lot of people everything must be framed in Brexit/Remainer terms, but I don't think Brexit or the EU have much relevance here. It's a question of diplomatic rights of non-state entities.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Pythian)
I appreciate that for a lot of people everything must be framed in Brexit/Remainer terms, but I don't think Brexit or the EU have much relevance here. It's a question of diplomatic rights of non-state entities.
(Original post by L i b)
I think you've got a bit carried away with the headlines here. The UK obviously does have diplomatic relations with the EU and a number of other international organisations too. We deal with the European Commission, as an entity, constantly.

The question, so far as I can see, is one of standing - because it seems that the current or interim status provides all the same immunities and so on that are expected.
International diplomacy doesn't really work like that. An entity decides it is the Supreme Sausage or whatever and we either accept it or earn it and its supporters' displeasure. Anomalous diplomatic entities have always existed and continue to be created. We are not the arbiters of classification.

A Protestant monarch does not receive an Ambassador from the Vatican City State. She receives a Papal Nuncio from the Holy See. Angeline Jolie travels on a diplomatic passport issued by the United Nations. Belarus and Ukraine were founder members of the UN. India joined 6 days later in 1945. What is an Aga Khan?
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imlikeahermit
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Xenophobic government 🤣🤣🤣🤣

All aside I don't understand what they are trying to achieve by this political muscle flexing, I'm guessing the excuse is the EU isn't a country and is too big for it boot having one! But.... why rock the boat ... just why?
Definition of Xenophobic: having or showing a dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries.

If removing us from the biggest trading bloc in the world based on a referendum that was sold on reducing immigration isn't xenophobia I don't know what is.
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Pythian
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
International diplomacy doesn't really work like that. An entity decides it is the Supreme Sausage or whatever and we either accept it or earn it and its supporters' displeasure. Anomalous diplomatic entities have always existed and continue to be created. We are not the arbiters of classification.

A Protestant monarch does not receive an Ambassador from the Vatican City State. She receives a Papal Nuncio from the Holy See. Angeline Jolie travels on a diplomatic passport issued by the United Nations. Belarus and Ukraine were founder members of the UN. India joined 6 days later in 1945. What is an Aga Khan?
Hello there

I am not sure which part of my post you are responding to.

As I understand, it's a question of whether you give full diplomatic cover a la Vienna Convention or a more ad hoc approach.
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