This discussion is now closed.

Check out other Related discussions

Should we still be proud of the British Empire?

Gremlins

Why? If your grandad had spent his time going around beating up poor dark-skinned people would you be proud of him?

Not for the sake of it, but don't be silly, thats not what the empire was about.

The empire was the natural result of european superiority, in terms of technology, organisation etc

I feel proud because my ancestors, as part of that society, contributed to its technological, economic, military and organisational superiority. The contribution came from hard work, innovation, exploration, bravery etc.

Finding themselves in this position capitalism took hold and in a way the rest of the world was exploited, which i'm not particularly proud of. But i'm proud that we as a nation were the ones in power.

Reply 61

Sine

Hmmm, that looks like big questions or whatever it's called.

Reply 62

Gremlins

11

Arminius

Not for the sake of it, but don't be silly, thats not what the empire was about.

Well, ok, how would you feel if your grandad beat up poor, dark-skinned people, stole their stuff, then sold it back to them for a profit?

The empire was the natural result of european superiority, in terms of technology, organisation etc

I feel proud because my ancestors, as part of that society, contributed to its technological, economic, military and organisational superiority.

Why are you proud of that? They have nothing to do with you.

The contribution came from hard work, innovation, exploration, bravery etc.

Well, that and fortuitous geography (see Jared Diamond's 'Guns, Germs, and Steel' for the pretty detailed explanation of why Europe did better than other places).

Reply 63

artemisa

Apologists of the British Empire need to be thrown in the English Channel.

All these backwater countries can whinge and moan about how brutal the British Empire was; however, that is the nature of humanity. I'm sure if their countries had developed the resources to form an empire, they would have happily carried out significantly worse actions.

To those who whine about slavery, you do know that many Africans captured and sold their own people? I would call that something to be ashamed of.

The British Empire needs to be taken in light of the historical context of the time. People use often use this reason to excuse their actions, so why can't we?

Reply 64

Bateman

17

how could you be proud of something you didn't do, but anyhow, why would you be proud of the things we did back then?

Reply 65

Bateman

17

artemisa

Apologists of the British Empire need to be thrown in the English Channel.

All these backwater countries can whinge and moan about how brutal the British Empire was; however, that is the nature of humanity. I'm sure if their countries had developed the resources to form an empire, they would have happily carried out significantly worse actions.

To those who whine about slavery, you do know that many Africans captured and sold their own people? I would call that something to be ashamed of.

The British Empire needs to be taken in light of the historical context of the time. People use often use this reason to excuse their actions, so why can't we?

oh, so we shouldn't be ashamed of selling other people, as long as it isn't our "own people".

Reply 66

artemisa

Bateman

oh, so we shouldn't be ashamed of selling other people, as long as it isn't our "own people".

Don't put words in my mouth, my point is that it is ironic how people stigmatize the British Empire for slavery, when Africans were selling their own people. I would consider treating one's countrymen like that much more shameful.

Reply 67

Chenla

If nothing else, we should be embarrassed at what an insufferable hole this place has become without it.

Reply 68

King4eva

17

yes you should be proud, you acomplishhed a lot and did what many nations tried and failed to do. Although you you were sly and wicked there are some parts can be proud of.

Reply 69

RonakShah

Recent events in N. Ireland provide enough proof to me that the Empire was a bad thing.

Reply 70

Gremlins

11

artemisa

Don't put words in my mouth, my point is that it is ironic how people stigmatize the British Empire for slavery, when Africans were selling their own people. I would consider treating one's countrymen like that much more shameful.

1. Please to be learning something about Africa.
2. "They're doing it too!" is, as I'm sure your primary school teacher never tired of telling you, not a very good excuse.

Reply 71

initiation

12

Yes we should, I would be happy to see Empire Day reborn as Commonwealth day where people can be educated about how Britain came to be in such a powerful position and explore the cultures of other Commonwealth nations.

To pick on the British empire is also slightly ignorant of the much worse treatment of natives under other European empires such as in the Congo free state.

Gremlins

Why are you proud of that? They have nothing to do with you.

By this logic then we shouldn't feel proud of anything that we were not directly involved in. We shouldn't feel proud of say a British athlete or sports team who win a competition, we shouldn't feel proud that it was British citizens who developed a whole host of inventions and ideas which make today's world possible, we shouldn't feel proud of the fact that we helped liberate Europe after the Nazi conquest or that Britain was one of the first major powers to officially abolish slavery and enforce it with the might of the Royal Navy?

Reply 72

Gremlins

11

DrunkHoboGuy

Look at the African countries formerly British colonies. Compare these with other European colonies.

With the specil exception of Zimbabwe (the bread basket of Africa) until they spectactularly f*d up with Mugabe, they are doing much better than the compatriots.

Hm. Not sure how far this is true tbh. Pretty much every African state apart from SA (which for these purposes probably shouldn't count) and Botswana is a bit of a mess. I mean, look at Nigeria, that was a British colony, and that stumbles from military coup to secessionary civil war to electoral hoax and back to military coup on a fairly regular basis.

Guy at my school who is from Sudan says "Black people can't rule themselves"

This person is a bit silly.

Although Sudan, of course, is a perfectly good example of a completely ******-up former British colony (which, for what it's worth, is run by Arabs).

Point being, it's not Britain's fault that Africa is in the state it is now, Britain did a lot of good for Africa regardless of the intentions.

What good, exactly, did Britain (or France or Italy or Belgium or Germany) do for Africa?

Reply 73

Renner

19

Gremlins

What good, exactly, did Britain (or France or Italy or Belgium or Germany) do for Africa?

What good did Africa do for Britain? A hell of a lot of good. Its all well and good looking back now and saying 'oh how awful' when Britain and Europe would not be as advanced, not have the same good standard of living, without the money that came from the colonies in Africa amongst others.

What good did Britain do for Africa? Well the worst thing we did was leave

Reply 74

rob501

As we all know, the British empire was a huge way for the British to enslave the whole of the world, extracting on average the equivalent today of £1m in goods and services from each man, woman and child in the colonies.

Equally however, all talk of British brutality is ridiculous, the British were right all along!

:eek3:

Reply 75

Gremlins

11

Renner

What good did Africa do for Britain? A hell of a lot of good. Its all well and good looking back now and saying 'oh how awful' when Britain and Europe would not be as advanced, not have the same good standard of living, without the money that came from the colonies in Africa amongst others.

Oh, I'm not denying that the European colonies often did very well out of their colonies. Quite how this justifies it, I'm not entirely sure. If I go up in the street to someone who's eating a chocolate bar and steal the chocolate bar off him, am I justified as long as I eat the chocolate bar?

What good did Britain do for Africa? Well the worst thing we did was leave

Justification for statement above, bitteschoen.

Reply 76

Bagration

18

In some places, Europe absolutely devastated others. In some places, it made them richer than some places in Europe (Rhodesia). Meh, it all depended strictly on the Government of the area.

Reply 77

Renner

19

Gremlins

Oh, I'm not denying that the European colonies often did very well out of their colonies. Quite how this justifies it, I'm not entirely sure. If I go up in the street to someone who's eating a chocolate bar and steal the chocolate bar off him, am I justified as long as I eat the chocolate bar?

In my unashamedly nationalistic view; the furthering of our country and the increase in standard of living to our own countrymen/ancestors is justification at a time when the plight of many a Briton was awful to say the least.

Justification for statement above, bitteschoen.

Aside from the fact there is still huge material wealth in Africa. I firmly believe the standard of living and the plight of many an African country would be many times better if Britain had remained in power, and over time the native man could have been introduced into modern politics and how to run his country. Rather than taking it in a civil war then going “Now what?....”

Reply 78

jen_biochem

7

L i b

Yes, it does. Because we accept that to have civilised government, there is always going to be problems, abuse of power and so forth. Therefore lessening that is nothing short of a success.

Unless you hold that government is inherently bad, then I think your position is self-contradictory.

British Imperialism ruined lives and countries? Utter nonsense. What countries has it ruined, pray tell? What country was in a worse state after the British left than before they arrived?

who gave the British government the right to go and rule in other countries?
so you are saying that it's ok for goverments to torture people and to abuse their power and we should do nothing about it?

'utter nonsense?' how to you justify events like this then:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_Massacre

- that's not ruining lives at all, is it? you must be so proud.

India used to be a very rich country before the British empire came along. The reason Britian is so rich is that you took money from other countries and are now living off it. People in those countries are still sufferening and will carry on doing so for hundreds of years to come.

Reply 79

Gremlins

11

Renner

In my unashamedly nationalistic view; the furthering of our country and the increase in standard of living to our own countrymen/ancestors is justification at a time when the plight of many a Briton was awful to say the least.

Oh. I don't suppose you've ever heard of this empathy thing, have you? It's supposed to extend beyond whatever group you've arbitarily decided to identify yourself with.

Aside from the fact there is still huge material wealth in Africa. I firmly believe the standard of living and the plight of many an African country would be many times better if Britain had remained in power, and over time the native man could have been introduced into modern politics and how to run his country. Rather than taking it in a civil war then going “Now what?....”

In most African states there was a programme for decolonisation, and handovers of power were largely peaceful. However, it turns out that you can't run an independent country the same way you run a colony, especially not a colony which was a bunch of lines on a map drawn up by a civil servant thousands of miles away, and the only purpose of which was to provide cheap crops or raw materials and to provide somewhere shoddy British merchandise ( :rolleyes:

) could be dumped on in the (common) event of noone else wanting it.

Should we still be proud of the British Empire?

Related discussions

Latest

Trending

Trending

Articles for you