Should Britain Ban the Burkha?
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Faith01
It's their choice, people wear what they want to wear, if they have worn it for many years and they feel that they have to wear- it's wrong to suddenly ban it. If Britain try to ban burkhas, what will be next? Headscarfs?
I really don't understand the fact why it should be banned, yes they look different but why??
I really don't understand the fact why it should be banned, yes they look different but why??
Hoodies? O wait they have banned them
.
Lord Hysteria
France is considering banning the Burkha. I think we should do it here, too.
Personally, I think that veiled women are probably subjugated and no matter how much they protest that they choose to wear the veil, this is only due to indoctrination from an early age, and probably pressure from their fathers/family members. Also, in Islam the Burka is not compulsory! You need to dress modestly ... the way they dress is a humiliation and quite simply degradation. And has no place in a modern world.
I also came across an intersting article (yes, from the Mail) - Why I, as a British Muslim woman, want the burkha banned from our streets
Personally, I think that veiled women are probably subjugated and no matter how much they protest that they choose to wear the veil, this is only due to indoctrination from an early age, and probably pressure from their fathers/family members. Also, in Islam the Burka is not compulsory! You need to dress modestly ... the way they dress is a humiliation and quite simply degradation. And has no place in a modern world.
I also came across an intersting article (yes, from the Mail) - Why I, as a British Muslim woman, want the burkha banned from our streets
I absolutely agree with everything you said in the second paragraph, it's a result of oppression and brainwashing, however, banning it is overly authoritarian in my opinion.
That said, I think wearing it certain professions e.g. doctor, teacher is impractical, so not allowing it in those situations is alright.
RosePetal
Once again, burkas are not forcefully worn by most muslim women why don't you get this.
It's not that simple. If a person is conditioned to believe from childhood that a woman who doesn't wear a headscarf is NAKED, then it's not exactly easy to escape that judgement.
A woman is often pressured by her community to wear a scarf and by her family. People react so negatively to girls who choose to remove their headscarf that it's not easy going against the tide. This of course can happen in any community for example a conservative family that abhors their children dressing up as punks, but what is really abhorrant about the hijab are the ideas that are attached to it: women must hide their hair to prevent thenselves being raped/enticing men. The onus is on the woman to conform in order to make life easier for men. This is not only insulting to women, but to men as well as it suggests that they have little self-control and are so animalistic that they may rape a woman who doesn't cover her body and her hair. The issue is not the material being placed over a woman's hair, but the misogynistic ideas that go alongside this act.
miz100
how stupid is this? some seriously insecure individuals want the burkha to be banned because they can't see who they are talking to?
It's a reasonable concern.
miz100
What about Sikhs carrying Kirpans (knife), surely that should be given more notice?
That's a debate for another day. Let's stay on topic.
miz100
Sarcozy comes across as the saviour of women everywhere. Why are women not allowed to be priests in the catholic church?
The Roman Catholic Church is a religious organisation, so this is a poor analogy.
miz100
the answer is: it will cause him to lose a high amount of votes. By coming across as anti-muslim he will gain many more far right votes.
Muslim victim mentality.
miz100
what the blundering idiot needs to understand is that there are 5 million muslims in his country, by making them feel isolated and hated he will be causing many more racial problems for his country and the rest of europe.
He's not 'isolating' or inciting hatred against French Muslims. The majority of French Muslims support a ban on the burka (and the ban on the headscarf in schools). Indeed, recent polls have found that the majority of Muslims here in the United Kingdom also support a ban on the burka in public.
The majority of French Muslims support a ban on the burka (and the ban on the headscarf in schools). Indeed, recent polls have found that the majority of Muslims here in the United Kingdom also support a ban on the burka in public.
Reply With Quote
what polls?
Every muslim I know diasgrees with the ban. And I know many muslims.
Reply With Quote
what polls?
Every muslim I know diasgrees with the ban. And I know many muslims.
Lord Hysteria
France is considering banning the Burkha. I think we should do it here, too.
Personally, I think that veiled women are probably subjugated and no matter how much they protest that they choose to wear the veil, this is only due to indoctrination from an early age, and probably pressure from their fathers/family members. Also, in Islam the Burka is not compulsory! You need to dress modestly ... the way they dress is a humiliation and quite simply degradation. And has no place in a modern world.
I also came across an intersting article (yes, from the Mail) - Why I, as a British Muslim woman, want the burkha banned from our streets
Personally, I think that veiled women are probably subjugated and no matter how much they protest that they choose to wear the veil, this is only due to indoctrination from an early age, and probably pressure from their fathers/family members. Also, in Islam the Burka is not compulsory! You need to dress modestly ... the way they dress is a humiliation and quite simply degradation. And has no place in a modern world.
I also came across an intersting article (yes, from the Mail) - Why I, as a British Muslim woman, want the burkha banned from our streets
Islam does not even insist that women are veiled - I was friends with a Muslim family when I was a child and none of the women wore veils. The mother dressed modestly, in long skirts and tops, but they saw no reason to cover themselves any more than that.
It especially annoys me that children are made to wear a headscarf - as well as being alienating for them, it is a bit creepy. The point of dressing modestly is that you aren't supposed to allow men other than your husband to see your body. Why are children included in this?
An outright ban of the burka would set a dangerous precedent. By all means it should be banned in places where having your face covered is a security risk, and establishments should be free to set a dress code that may exclude the burka. But I don't see any justification for banning it when walking down the street.
123_456
i am a muslim.. y dont u lot just shut the heck up n mind ur own business,, and let muslim women cover her face if she likes to do so u have no right to judge someone, u get that
I am a muslim. Yes ban the burkha. It is irrevelant. It is intimidating and threatening. Secondly, when in Rome, do what Romans do...the muslims in this country, and asians do not even make the effort to intergrate. The burkha is one of the few things that is holding this "intergration" back. The only use I can think of for the burkha is in the cinemas hiding popcorn bought from tescos, the popcorn is exspensive- rip off.
123_456
u have no right to judge someone, u get that
A Muslim telling others not to judge people - hilarious! In my experience, Islam is the most judgemental, self-righteous religion in the world. If Muslims like yourself don't want to be judged, you shouldn't judge others e.g. gay and lesbian people, women who dress in a certain manner, etc.
123_456
and dont u ppl dare to say anything about islam, if u dnt no anything about that pure religion
We'll say whatever I want.
The Burqu' is the veil that covers the whole face. It usually has the slit for the eyes, though it has an extra flap to cover the eyes which is rather thin, allowing them to see out, but not allowing others to see in.
The Niqaab is the veil with a slit.
“O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed..."
[Al-Ahzaab 33:59]
The meaning of the word Muslim is "one who submits". To be a Muslim you have to then follow the words of Allah The Almighty and the words of His Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him).
Really? Even though she herself declared she was Muslim by name only? Which of course there is no such thing as, either you are Muslim or you are not. There's no such thing as "I'm Muslim.... You see I have a name that fits in with the Muslims, so therefore I must be considered one of them, even though I hate them and what they do."
Now who is trying to prevent integration? "Yes we wish you to integrate with us, but what are you doing buying our clothes, in our shops!" As for the matter about wearing it in public, not everybody wants to be treated in a diminished manner on the streets, with lecherous men leering at her body, her face. Why should she have to put up with it? Doesn't she want to preserve herself for her partner? She is like a pearl. Hidden, but beautiful, for the right people.
There is nothing wrong with them buying it/ Perhaps they wanted to sell it? Or give it as a gift to a non-Muslim woman? Or *shock* *horror* perhaps they wanted to wear it at home, or at wedding party?
Bring your evidence. Just because they are covered when they go out in public doesn't mean they don't get any sun. Some people are blessed enough to have some grass behind the house, where the sun shines. Perhaps they call it a garden.
I believe that the UK is indeed quite tolerant of other beliefs and accommodates most people, and I am grateful for that. However, when was the right to tell other people what they can and cannot wear created in British law?
Perhaps it could be used to keep them away from harm? How many Muslim women are raped compared to other women? Look at the statistics from the United Nations - http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/eighthsurvey/8sv.pdf
13,395 Women were raped in the UK in 2002 compared to 10,601 in 2001
95,136 Women were raped in the USA in 2002 compared to 90,863 in 2001
The figures are increasing. Isn't this proof that something is wrong?
Look at South Africa, a woman is raped every 26 seconds.
Perhaps she has merely read the word "Koran". Refer to the verse at the top of this post. In any case, in Islamic Jurisprudence we don't merely take the Qur'an as a source, but also the Hadeeth (Prophetic Traditions). There are numerous ahadeeth that provide evidence for it.
So we just change whatever beliefs we have at the drop of a hat, regardless what type of mainstream culture it is? If there was mainstream culture in which rape was prevalent and perhaps not illegal, then Saira Khan the great British "Muslim" woman must be only too happy to oblige sah? Even though it goes against everything she believes in?
It is. Ask 95% of the women wearing it and you will find they wish to wear it. Why, you may ask, would you wish to wear something that is oh so "restrictive, oppressive and humiliating"? Well the simple fact of the matter is because the believe that Allah is her Lord. She will submit to him, as he is the Lord of the worlds. If she does so, she will obtain admission into paradise, and be removed from the hellfire. Now, if there is an argument against this point, then it is not really the Burqu' or the Niqaab on trial. It is Islam, as if the questioner were to become Muslim there would be no argument. Allah says about the Muslims in the Qur'an in Al-Baqarah second to last verse
"Qaaloo sami'naa wa ata'naa."
"They (the Muslims) say we hear, and we obey."
She has confused Islam with her own Pakistani culture. Unfortunately the people of Pakistan are not really the best examples of Islam.
As for the rest of her article it is copy and paste from her article on when Jack Straw made similar comments.
The Niqaab is the veil with a slit.
“O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed..."
[Al-Ahzaab 33:59]
The meaning of the word Muslim is "one who submits". To be a Muslim you have to then follow the words of Allah The Almighty and the words of His Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him).
Why I, as a British Muslim woman, want the burkha banned from our streets
Really? Even though she herself declared she was Muslim by name only? Which of course there is no such thing as, either you are Muslim or you are not. There's no such thing as "I'm Muslim.... You see I have a name that fits in with the Muslims, so therefore I must be considered one of them, even though I hate them and what they do."
Shopping in Harrods last week, I came across a group of women wearing black burkhas, browsing the latest designs in the fashion department.
The irony of the situation was almost laughable. Here was a group of affluent women window shopping for designs that they would never once be able to wear in public.
The irony of the situation was almost laughable. Here was a group of affluent women window shopping for designs that they would never once be able to wear in public.
Now who is trying to prevent integration? "Yes we wish you to integrate with us, but what are you doing buying our clothes, in our shops!" As for the matter about wearing it in public, not everybody wants to be treated in a diminished manner on the streets, with lecherous men leering at her body, her face. Why should she have to put up with it? Doesn't she want to preserve herself for her partner? She is like a pearl. Hidden, but beautiful, for the right people.
There is nothing wrong with them buying it/ Perhaps they wanted to sell it? Or give it as a gift to a non-Muslim woman? Or *shock* *horror* perhaps they wanted to wear it at home, or at wedding party?
Shockingly, the Dickensian bone disease rickets has reemerged in the British Muslim community because women are not getting enough vital vitamin D from sunlight because they are being consigned to life under a shroud.
Bring your evidence. Just because they are covered when they go out in public doesn't mean they don't get any sun. Some people are blessed enough to have some grass behind the house, where the sun shines. Perhaps they call it a garden.
We are led to believe that we must live with this in the name of 'tolerance'.
I believe that the UK is indeed quite tolerant of other beliefs and accommodates most people, and I am grateful for that. However, when was the right to tell other people what they can and cannot wear created in British law?
The veil is simply a tool of oppression which is being used to alienate and control women under the guise of religious freedom.
Perhaps it could be used to keep them away from harm? How many Muslim women are raped compared to other women? Look at the statistics from the United Nations - http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/eighthsurvey/8sv.pdf
13,395 Women were raped in the UK in 2002 compared to 10,601 in 2001
95,136 Women were raped in the USA in 2002 compared to 90,863 in 2001
The figures are increasing. Isn't this proof that something is wrong?
Look at South Africa, a woman is raped every 26 seconds.
I have read the Koran. Nowhere in the Koran does it state that a woman's face and body must be covered in a layer of heavy black cloth. Instead, Muslim women should dress modestly, covering their arms and legs.
Perhaps she has merely read the word "Koran". Refer to the verse at the top of this post. In any case, in Islamic Jurisprudence we don't merely take the Qur'an as a source, but also the Hadeeth (Prophetic Traditions). There are numerous ahadeeth that provide evidence for it.
t is alien to the mainstream culture
So we just change whatever beliefs we have at the drop of a hat, regardless what type of mainstream culture it is? If there was mainstream culture in which rape was prevalent and perhaps not illegal, then Saira Khan the great British "Muslim" woman must be only too happy to oblige sah? Even though it goes against everything she believes in?
Every time the burkha is debated, Muslim fundamentalists bring out all these women who say: 'It's my choice to wear this.'
It is. Ask 95% of the women wearing it and you will find they wish to wear it. Why, you may ask, would you wish to wear something that is oh so "restrictive, oppressive and humiliating"? Well the simple fact of the matter is because the believe that Allah is her Lord. She will submit to him, as he is the Lord of the worlds. If she does so, she will obtain admission into paradise, and be removed from the hellfire. Now, if there is an argument against this point, then it is not really the Burqu' or the Niqaab on trial. It is Islam, as if the questioner were to become Muslim there would be no argument. Allah says about the Muslims in the Qur'an in Al-Baqarah second to last verse
"Qaaloo sami'naa wa ata'naa."
"They (the Muslims) say we hear, and we obey."
And behind the closed doors of some Muslim houses, countless young women are told to wear the hijab and the veil. These are the girls who are hidden away, they are not allowed to go to university or choose who they marry. In many cases, they are kept down by the threat of violence.
She has confused Islam with her own Pakistani culture. Unfortunately the people of Pakistan are not really the best examples of Islam.
As for the rest of her article it is copy and paste from her article on when Jack Straw made similar comments.
Provocative
A Muslim telling others not to judge people - hilarious! In my experience, Islam is the most judgemental, self-righteous religion in the world. If Muslims like yourself don't want to be judged, you shouldn't judge others e.g. gay and lesbian people, women who dress in a certain manner, etc.
We'll say whatever I want.
We'll say whatever I want.
Every other religion is "judgmental". Every person is "judgmental". I don't understand what your point is exactly and how the **** it is relevant to the topic, which I perceive to understand is that whether the Burkha prevent integration in a multi-cultural Britain?
I think they should actually. Ones that cover the head are fine but ones that cover the whole face are just abit creepy-you don't know who your talking to and could be anyone under there. Whats the point anyway?
Mozzy1411
T
Perhaps it could be used to keep them away from harm? How many Muslim women are raped compared to other women? Look at the statistics from the United Nations - http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/eighthsurvey/8sv.pdf
13,395 Women were raped in the UK in 2002 compared to 10,601 in 2001
95,136 Women were raped in the USA in 2002 compared to 90,863 in 2001
The figures are increasing. Isn't this proof that something is wrong?
Perhaps it could be used to keep them away from harm? How many Muslim women are raped compared to other women? Look at the statistics from the United Nations - http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/eighthsurvey/8sv.pdf
13,395 Women were raped in the UK in 2002 compared to 10,601 in 2001
95,136 Women were raped in the USA in 2002 compared to 90,863 in 2001
The figures are increasing. Isn't this proof that something is wrong?
What a stupid statement to make. She is not asking Muslim Women to dress down and show their cleavage. Dress modestly, she even goes on to accept that the hijab (the thing that covers the head) is ok. But the viel covers the face is not.
I agree with those sentiments. Stop being judgemental hardly Islamic is it?
I'm not allowed to smoke weed even though I believe in it.
I'm not allowed to walk around naked even though i'd feel perfectly comfortable doing it.
Why should muslims be allowed to wear religious clothing in workplaces etc just because they believe in a deity?
What makes their beliefs more valid than mine?
I'm all for banning it, if I can't do the things I believe in.
I'm not allowed to walk around naked even though i'd feel perfectly comfortable doing it.
Why should muslims be allowed to wear religious clothing in workplaces etc just because they believe in a deity?
What makes their beliefs more valid than mine?
I'm all for banning it, if I can't do the things I believe in.
4G_dollars
Every other religion is "judgmental".
In which case Muslims shouldn't demand that others refrain from making judgments about them.
4G_dollars
Every person is "judgmental".
Some more so than others.
4G_dollars
I don't understand what your point is exactly and how the **** it is relevant to the topic, which I perceive to understand is that whether the Burkha prevent integration in a multi-cultural Britain?
I was responding to a comment made by another person. Why don't you ask him why he thinks it's relevant to the debate?
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