Do you consider UKIP good or bad?

Original post by GCSEsitter

I think if at least one of the main stream parties promised to control immigration and benefits then they could take the next election. IMO, Ukip are too dangerous to win but some of their policies should be used by other parties

I can't stand this sort of pandering to populism, but the Conservatives have done precisely that: "Capping Welfare and Reducing Immigration": http://www.conservatives.com/Plan/CapWelfareReduceImmigration.aspx.

Ugh though. I wish they could address people as fully-functional, thinking individuals rather than feeding them misleading soundbites.

Reply 704

Original post by Troytheboy

I think they are extremist, who should not deserve to rule the country

To think UKIP is extremist you must be so far left you make Karl Marx look tory.

Reply 705

redferry

19

Original post by MrKappa

Meh, I'm still not voting for Clegg or Miliband. Might give Dave another chance.

Green?

Reply 706

Original post by TATP

To think UKIP is extremist you must be so far left you make Karl Marx look tory.

Well that's ridiculous... UKIP's policies are pretty much extremist by conservative standards. They're proposing much more sudden changes than the other parties.

Reply 707

Original post by lerjj

Well that's ridiculous... UKIP's policies are pretty much extremist by conservative standards. They're proposing much more sudden changes than the other parties.

They are extremist in the sense they are diverting from the long standing status quo of the 3 main parties. I don't think that is what the guy meant that I was quoting though. I believe he thinks UKIP are extremist in the sense that they are some sort of fascists or neo-nazis in his mind.

Reply 708

Original post by hexagonalRod

UKIP have argued for:

8) The 2010 manifesto, which Farage has admittedly called "drivel", called for taxi drivers to be required to wear uniforms, dress codes for the theatre and for the Circle line on London's underground to be made a circle again.

9) Their friends in Europe are on the far right

13) UKIP’s MEPs have consistently failed to represent the interests of women. They have voted against or simply not turned up to key votes in the European Parliament on ensuringequal pay, combating violence against women and ruling out FGM, to name but a few.

17) Increase in Tax for 88% of the poorest people in Britain.

In all honestly, I like Britain the way it is, and I'd rather not see it change, the way UKIP does.

This is devil's advocate as I think their other policies are awful, but here goes: 8) If their previous manifesto has been abandoned, then where are you getting these policies from? Surely moving away from drivel and recognising it as such is only a good thing.

9) Relevance? I have friends who are conservatives and friends who are green (and some who are UKIP). We know that UKIP are a right-wing party, this is not inherently bad.

13) Not very excusable, but I didn't think UKIP MEPs voted much at all in the EU parliament, so unless I see better statistics, I shall assume this to be cherry-picking

17) Seeing as I have tried to argue this point before, I do agree with it. But its quite hard to find those figures as they haven't published any figures and have renounced their previous manifesto (which does do this I think).

Also, I don't understand why supporting package holidays and making the circle line a circle are bad things. Weird policies perhaps, but not bad (I could be wrong, I don't really know why they are relevant is all).

Edit: removed the stuff about the female MPs. Misread the text
/d's advocate

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 709

Original post by TATP

They are extremist in the sense they are diverting from the long standing status quo of the 3 main parties. I don't think that is what the guy meant that I was quoting though. I believe he thinks UKIP are extremist in the sense that they are some sort of fascists or neo-nazis in his mind.

And yet you insulted him because of your interpretation, despite accepting that my alternative is perfectly valid? They are extremists in an objective sense. They are also the furthest-right party in our system and so there's some support for a fascist line (although tbh, I only know that fascists are right wing, I'm not really sure what the word means... :s-smilie:

)

Reply 710

Original post by Skip_Snip

Wanting to cut (not entirely stop, CUT) immigration is a fine policy, if they just focused on that, achieved it, and sodded off it would be poifect :smile:

They have four years in power though if you voted for them- they literally can't just do that. Lobby the other parties to introduce your desired immigration policy, don't vote for a one policy party.

Reply 711

Original post by lerjj

And yet you insulted him because of your interpretation, despite accepting that my alternative is perfectly valid? They are extremists in an objective sense. They are also the furthest-right party in our system and so there's some support for a fascist line (although tbh, I only know that fascists are right wing, I'm not really sure what the word means... :s-smilie:

)

I gathered that from reading his other posts about UKIP previously. He continuously posts "AAAAH UKIP WANT TO TAX THE POOR INTO OBLIVION, PRIVATISE THE NHS TO PAY FOR 100 BANKERS HELICOPTERS, TAKE AWAY YOUR MUMS HUMAN RIGHTS SO THEY CAN BUY 20 SHOTGUNS FOR THEIR BANKER MATES" style stuff. I betcha 20p he did mean he thought UKIP was extremist in the sense that he believes they are fascists and not that they are extremists objectively. He already implied in another thread UKIP is potentially the next Hitler.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 712

Quady

20

Original post by lerjj

14) Kinda defeats your own point by starting with "only 2 female MEPs... have left the party". Why haven't the others left?

(if you only have two female MEPs you can't lose more than two...)

Reply 713

Original post by Quady

(if you only have two female MEPs you can't lose more than two...)

Woops! Maybe I misread that a little

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 714

Stiff Little Fingers

21

Original post by lerjj

This is devil's advocate as I think their other policies are awful, but here goes: 8) If their previous manifesto has been abandoned, then where are you getting these policies from? Surely moving away from drivel and recognising it as such is only a good thing.

9) Relevance? I have friends who are conservatives and friends who are green (and some who are UKIP). We know that UKIP are a right-wing party, this is not inherently bad.

13) Not very excusable, but I didn't think UKIP MEPs voted much at all in the EU parliament, so unless I see better statistics, I shall assume this to be cherry-picking

14) Kinda defeats your own point by starting with "only 2 female MEPs... have left the party". Why haven't the others left?

17) Seeing as I have tried to argue this point before, I do agree with it. But its quite hard to find those figures as they haven't published any figures and have renounced their previous manifesto (which does do this I think).

Also, I don't understand why supporting package holidays and making the circle line a circle are bad things. Weird policies perhaps, but not bad (I could be wrong, I don't really know why they are relevant is all).

/d's advocate

13) they don't turn up to vote, in general they refuse to vote, but when they turn up they vote to block good things like banning FGM.

14) completely missed what they were saying - ukip had 2 female MEP's, both left.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 715

Original post by TATP

I gathered that from reading his other posts about UKIP previously. He continuously posts "AAAAH UKIP WANT TO TAX THE POOR INTO OBLIVION, PRIVATISE THE NHS TO PAY FOR 100 BANKERS HELICOPTERS, TAKE AWAY YOUR MUMS HUMAN RIGHTS SO THEY CAN BUY 20 SHOTGUNS FOR THEIR BANKER MATES" style stuff. I betcha 20p he did mean he thought UKIP was extremist in the sense that he believes they are fascists and not that they are extremists objectively. He already implied in another thread UKIP is potentially the next Hitler.

Ask him, if so then I'll put 20p into your bank account. Enter your pin number here:____ and card number here: __________

Reply 716

Original post by lerjj

Ask him, if so then I'll put 20p into your bank account. Enter your pin number here:____ and card number here: __________

I don't need to ask him, he just implied to me in another thread that UKIP is all just a sham and that if they ever get into power, they'll immediately go full fascist, dump all their previously pledged policies and establish the 4th reich.

Reply 717

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

13) they don't turn up to vote, in general they refuse to vote, but when they turn up they vote to block good things like banning FGM.

14) completely missed what they were saying - ukip had 2 female MEP's, both left.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Fixed that. Do you have a list of things which they block? I'm still calling cherry-picking here until I see stats.

Their MEPs are probably sexist just because they don't have many women at the moment. It doesn't mean that that's necessarily the party line, but that previously they had only a few MEPs who were all male and probably the same social class etc. it doesn't show that that's UKIP's main policy.

Having said that, getting feminists to vote anti-UKIP would be a step in the right direction. If they're going to have sexist policies, they ought to lose the corresponding 50% of the vote.

Reply 718

Original post by TATP

I don't need to ask him, he just implied to me in another thread that UKIP is all just a sham and that if they ever get into power, they'll immediately go full fascist, dump all their previously pledged policies and establish the 4th reich.

But how will we settle our bet!? What worries me is that they won't dump all their previously pledged policies, and will immediately go full kipper.

This is my perspective of what will happen (best case scenario):
UKIP gets lots of protest votes, gets a handful of seats
Conservatives get majority of seats, but not enough for a government
Con/Lib/UKIP coalition
Everyone hates UKIP because they sold their souls and joined a coalition, where the conservatives outnumber them 10:1 and they can't pass their policies.
Everyone votes green as a protest vote, because we've now used up LibDem and UKIP.

So in summary, we should vote for UKIP, weather the inevitable 4 year storm, and then be green and happy 4ever!
:bunny:

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