Why are a lot of people seeminlgy unkind/humourless about eccentricity?
I will of course include those with mild mental illness, although for me the line with eccentricity is slightly blurred here. But plenty of life's greatest thinkers and geniuses, artistic and scientific, have been eccentric-the trend is well established. I've got a bit of a thing for eccentric girls and sometimes find them really funny and have a soft spot. I may be judging by the web and only certain people, a selective sample that are posting. I'll give you an example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSVOVYV7FdI
Basically, I just think there is a lack of compassion, and to be honest, a lot of eccentric people are a hell of a lot more likeable and charming than the taking themselves seriously, oh-so cool/po-faced people, who have only ever thought conformist thoughts. Maybe it's just that a lot of hateful people post online. Because here the comments don't match the scene, the guy next to her even says take care/nice to meet you and the other girls laugh. Tbh I'd rather have a tube journey with her than the pompous, humourless, typical London cow going on about 'paying for her ticket'. I mean, she's quite endearing and harmless, and the tube is so fin miserable and full of those who take themselves seriously.
My contention is this-
If we hate eccentricity, have no empathy for it, when it is a bedfellow of freedom and liberty and individuality, then as an individual or a society we harbour totalitarian traits. The two are closely linked-the authoritarian conformist personality hates eccentricity the most. You can say you respect the woman who has a problem, but listen to her, imagine trying to have any kind of laugh with her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSVOVYV7FdI
Basically, I just think there is a lack of compassion, and to be honest, a lot of eccentric people are a hell of a lot more likeable and charming than the taking themselves seriously, oh-so cool/po-faced people, who have only ever thought conformist thoughts. Maybe it's just that a lot of hateful people post online. Because here the comments don't match the scene, the guy next to her even says take care/nice to meet you and the other girls laugh. Tbh I'd rather have a tube journey with her than the pompous, humourless, typical London cow going on about 'paying for her ticket'. I mean, she's quite endearing and harmless, and the tube is so fin miserable and full of those who take themselves seriously.
My contention is this-
If we hate eccentricity, have no empathy for it, when it is a bedfellow of freedom and liberty and individuality, then as an individual or a society we harbour totalitarian traits. The two are closely linked-the authoritarian conformist personality hates eccentricity the most. You can say you respect the woman who has a problem, but listen to her, imagine trying to have any kind of laugh with her.
(edited 8 years ago)
Scroll to see replies
'Seemingly' that should read.
Part 2 is better
Part 2 is better
(edited 8 years ago)
http://www.amerika.org/social-reality/eccentricity/
“The British are sadly changed from Hayek’s description of them. A sense of irony is the first victim of utopian dreams. The British tolerance of eccentricity has also evaporated; uniformity is what they want now, and are prepared informally to impose. They tolerate no deviation in taste or appearance from themselves: and certainly in the lower reaches of society, people who are markedly different, either in appearance because of the vagaries of nature, or in behavior because of an unusual taste they may have, especially for cultivation, meet with merciless ridicule, bullying, and even physical attack. It is as if people believed that uniformity of appearance, taste, and behavior were a justification of their own lives, and any deviation an implied reproach or even a declaration of hostility. A young patient of mine, who disliked the noise, the vulgarity, and the undertone of violence of the nightclubs where her classmates spent their Friday and Saturday nights, was derided and mocked into conformity: it was too hard to hold out. The pressure to conform to the canons of popular taste—or rather lack of taste—has never been stronger. Those without interest in soccer hardly dare mention it in public, for fear of being considered enemies of the people. A dispiriting uniformity of character, deeply shallow, has settled over a land once richer in eccentrics than any other. No more Edward Lears for us: we prefer notoriety to oddity now.”
Fascinating.
“The British are sadly changed from Hayek’s description of them. A sense of irony is the first victim of utopian dreams. The British tolerance of eccentricity has also evaporated; uniformity is what they want now, and are prepared informally to impose. They tolerate no deviation in taste or appearance from themselves: and certainly in the lower reaches of society, people who are markedly different, either in appearance because of the vagaries of nature, or in behavior because of an unusual taste they may have, especially for cultivation, meet with merciless ridicule, bullying, and even physical attack. It is as if people believed that uniformity of appearance, taste, and behavior were a justification of their own lives, and any deviation an implied reproach or even a declaration of hostility. A young patient of mine, who disliked the noise, the vulgarity, and the undertone of violence of the nightclubs where her classmates spent their Friday and Saturday nights, was derided and mocked into conformity: it was too hard to hold out. The pressure to conform to the canons of popular taste—or rather lack of taste—has never been stronger. Those without interest in soccer hardly dare mention it in public, for fear of being considered enemies of the people. A dispiriting uniformity of character, deeply shallow, has settled over a land once richer in eccentrics than any other. No more Edward Lears for us: we prefer notoriety to oddity now.”
Fascinating.
(edited 8 years ago)
Oh, and don't flame me, but would it not be fair to suggest that women are bigger dislikers of it than men? Or is that too generalized? I've noticed that women seem to love to categorize everything and have men in categories they can comprehend, even terms like bad boys etc falls into this, track record with women judgements, etc. So two questions in addition to the rest of the thread- 1)are women more conformist, or less tolerant of eccentricity
And 2)Have the British begun to lose their eccentricity? On that last question, here is Dalrymple's full article, with another passage on this...you have to scroll down, it's before the one I quoted.
http://www.city-journal.org/html/15_2_oh_to_be.html
Oh and don't let an interesting thread go beggin please.
And 2)Have the British begun to lose their eccentricity? On that last question, here is Dalrymple's full article, with another passage on this...you have to scroll down, it's before the one I quoted.
http://www.city-journal.org/html/15_2_oh_to_be.html
Oh and don't let an interesting thread go beggin please.
Yes... Actually, no.. Wait what???? Can you repeat the question please.
Original post by SaucissonSecCy
]
“The British are sadly changed from Hayek’s description of them. A sense of irony is the first victim of utopian dreams. The British tolerance of eccentricity has also evaporated; uniformity is what they want now, and are prepared informally to impose. They tolerate no deviation in taste or appearance from themselves: and certainly in the lower reaches of society, people who are markedly different, either in appearance because of the vagaries of nature, or in behavior because of an unusual taste they may have, especially for cultivation, meet with merciless ridicule, bullying, and even physical attack. It is as if people believed that uniformity of appearance, taste, and behavior were a justification of their own lives, and any deviation an implied reproach or even a declaration of hostility. A young patient of mine, who disliked the noise, the vulgarity, and the undertone of violence of the nightclubs where her classmates spent their Friday and Saturday nights, was derided and mocked into conformity: it was too hard to hold out. The pressure to conform to the canons of popular taste—or rather lack of taste—has never been stronger. Those without interest in soccer hardly dare mention it in public, for fear of being considered enemies of the people. A dispiriting uniformity of character, deeply shallow, has settled over a land once richer in eccentrics than any other. No more Edward Lears for us: we prefer notoriety to oddity now.”
Fascinating.
“The British are sadly changed from Hayek’s description of them. A sense of irony is the first victim of utopian dreams. The British tolerance of eccentricity has also evaporated; uniformity is what they want now, and are prepared informally to impose. They tolerate no deviation in taste or appearance from themselves: and certainly in the lower reaches of society, people who are markedly different, either in appearance because of the vagaries of nature, or in behavior because of an unusual taste they may have, especially for cultivation, meet with merciless ridicule, bullying, and even physical attack. It is as if people believed that uniformity of appearance, taste, and behavior were a justification of their own lives, and any deviation an implied reproach or even a declaration of hostility. A young patient of mine, who disliked the noise, the vulgarity, and the undertone of violence of the nightclubs where her classmates spent their Friday and Saturday nights, was derided and mocked into conformity: it was too hard to hold out. The pressure to conform to the canons of popular taste—or rather lack of taste—has never been stronger. Those without interest in soccer hardly dare mention it in public, for fear of being considered enemies of the people. A dispiriting uniformity of character, deeply shallow, has settled over a land once richer in eccentrics than any other. No more Edward Lears for us: we prefer notoriety to oddity now.”
Fascinating.
It's funny that other people attack our society for the exact opposite, having too many eccentric hipsters.
You could also count nerd culture. I think we are coming back around. I'm pretty obsessed with A Song of Ice and Fire, for example, and I don't feel that much hostility. I feel like people having a passion for comic books, video games, things like that, are now more socially acceptable than they were twenty, thirty years ago.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by SaucissonSecCy
I will of course include those with mild mental illness, although for me the line with eccentricity is slightly blurred here. But plenty of life's greatest thinkers and geniuses, artistic and scientific, have been eccentric-the trend is well established. I've got a bit of a thing for eccentric girls and sometimes find them really funny and have a soft spot. I may be judging by the web and only certain people, a selective sample that are posting. I'll give you an example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSVOVYV7FdI
Basically, I just think there is a lack of compassion, and to be honest, a lot of eccentric people are a hell of a lot more likeable and charming than the taking themselves seriously, oh-so cool/po-faced people, who have only ever thought conformist thoughts. Maybe it's just that a lot of hateful people post online. Because here the comments don't match the scene, the guy next to her even says take care/nice to meet you and the other girls laugh. Tbh I'd rather have a tube journey with her than the pompous, humourless, typical London cow going on about 'paying for her ticket'. I mean, she's quite endearing and harmless, and the tube is so fin miserable and full of those who take themselves seriously.
My contention is this-
If we hate eccentricity, have no empathyfior it, when it is a bedfellow of freedom and liberty and individuality, then as an individual or a society we harbour totalitarian traits. The two are closely linked-the authoritarian conformist personality hates eccentricity the most. You can say you respect the woman who has a problem, but listen to her, imagine trying to have any kind of laugh with her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSVOVYV7FdI
Basically, I just think there is a lack of compassion, and to be honest, a lot of eccentric people are a hell of a lot more likeable and charming than the taking themselves seriously, oh-so cool/po-faced people, who have only ever thought conformist thoughts. Maybe it's just that a lot of hateful people post online. Because here the comments don't match the scene, the guy next to her even says take care/nice to meet you and the other girls laugh. Tbh I'd rather have a tube journey with her than the pompous, humourless, typical London cow going on about 'paying for her ticket'. I mean, she's quite endearing and harmless, and the tube is so fin miserable and full of those who take themselves seriously.
My contention is this-
If we hate eccentricity, have no empathyfior it, when it is a bedfellow of freedom and liberty and individuality, then as an individual or a society we harbour totalitarian traits. The two are closely linked-the authoritarian conformist personality hates eccentricity the most. You can say you respect the woman who has a problem, but listen to her, imagine trying to have any kind of laugh with her.
Being eccentric means being vastly different to most people therefor as most people in society fear what they don't understand they end up disliking eccentric people.
Original post by Mankytoes
It's funny that other people attack our society for the exact opposite, having too many eccentric hipsters.
You could also count nerd culture. I think we are coming back around. I'm pretty obsessed with A Song of Ice and Fire, for example, and I don't feel that much hostility. I feel like people having a passion for comic books, video games, things like that, are now more socially acceptable than they were twenty, thirty years ago.
You could also count nerd culture. I think we are coming back around. I'm pretty obsessed with A Song of Ice and Fire, for example, and I don't feel that much hostility. I feel like people having a passion for comic books, video games, things like that, are now more socially acceptable than they were twenty, thirty years ago.
The comic bit may be true because of comic stories being taken to the big screen at the same time I hear less people are buying comics so people being more accepting of comic readers does not really translate into people supporting the comic industry, never actually seen anyone read a comic in Transport.
Original post by Mankytoes
It's funny that other people attack our society for the exact opposite, having too many eccentric hipsters.
You could also count nerd culture. I think we are coming back around. I'm pretty obsessed with A Song of Ice and Fire, for example, and I don't feel that much hostility. I feel like people having a passion for comic books, video games, things like that, are now more socially acceptable than they were twenty, thirty years ago.
You could also count nerd culture. I think we are coming back around. I'm pretty obsessed with A Song of Ice and Fire, for example, and I don't feel that much hostility. I feel like people having a passion for comic books, video games, things like that, are now more socially acceptable than they were twenty, thirty years ago.
Hipsters are actually conformist to hipster culture IMO
Original post by SaucissonSecCy
I will of course include those with mild mental illness, although for me the line with eccentricity is slightly blurred here. But plenty of life's greatest thinkers and geniuses, artistic and scientific, have been eccentric-the trend is well established. I've got a bit of a thing for eccentric girls and sometimes find them really funny and have a soft spot. I may be judging by the web and only certain people, a selective sample that are posting. I'll give you an example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSVOVYV7FdI
Basically, I just think there is a lack of compassion, and to be honest, a lot of eccentric people are a hell of a lot more likeable and charming than the taking themselves seriously, oh-so cool/po-faced people, who have only ever thought conformist thoughts. Maybe it's just that a lot of hateful people post online. Because here the comments don't match the scene, the guy next to her even says take care/nice to meet you and the other girls laugh. Tbh I'd rather have a tube journey with her than the pompous, humourless, typical London cow going on about 'paying for her ticket'. I mean, she's quite endearing and harmless, and the tube is so fin miserable and full of those who take themselves seriously.
My contention is this-
If we hate eccentricity, have no empathyfior it, when it is a bedfellow of freedom and liberty and individuality, then as an individual or a society we harbour totalitarian traits. The two are closely linked-the authoritarian conformist personality hates eccentricity the most. You can say you respect the woman who has a problem, but listen to her, imagine trying to have any kind of laugh with her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSVOVYV7FdI
Basically, I just think there is a lack of compassion, and to be honest, a lot of eccentric people are a hell of a lot more likeable and charming than the taking themselves seriously, oh-so cool/po-faced people, who have only ever thought conformist thoughts. Maybe it's just that a lot of hateful people post online. Because here the comments don't match the scene, the guy next to her even says take care/nice to meet you and the other girls laugh. Tbh I'd rather have a tube journey with her than the pompous, humourless, typical London cow going on about 'paying for her ticket'. I mean, she's quite endearing and harmless, and the tube is so fin miserable and full of those who take themselves seriously.
My contention is this-
If we hate eccentricity, have no empathyfior it, when it is a bedfellow of freedom and liberty and individuality, then as an individual or a society we harbour totalitarian traits. The two are closely linked-the authoritarian conformist personality hates eccentricity the most. You can say you respect the woman who has a problem, but listen to her, imagine trying to have any kind of laugh with her.
The girl's a chav, and an utterly stupid one at that. I'm neither pompous nor humourless on my tube journeys, especially when I'm with friends, but we can all agree that screaming at the top of your lungs is obnoxious and inconsiderate.
The example is a poor one IMO. Have you ever heard a loud, high-pitched female screech like that in close quarters in an environment where sound echos off the walls very loudly? It physically hurts your ears. More obnoxious less eccentric, I think.
Do you believe that the people in suits are inherently conformists? Not being facetious just curious here.
Do you believe that the people in suits are inherently conformists? Not being facetious just curious here.
Original post by SwedishRedhead
Hipsters are actually conformist to hipster culture IMO
Well the term is used loosely. In any case, they do generally appear to be eccentric. The general criticism is they are trying too hard to be individualistic and unusual, but surely they would only act like that if a society valued those qualities? I think people like to have it both ways- they say they value eccentricity, but in practise, they don't actually like those people.
Original post by Mancini
The comic bit may be true because of comic stories being taken to the big screen at the same time I hear less people are buying comics so people being more accepting of comic readers does not really translate into people supporting the comic industry, never actually seen anyone read a comic in Transport.
I guess, it was only part of a wider point. I was thinking specfically of Obama (American I know, but there is a lot of shared culture) talking about being into comic books, making geeky references, I think that might have been considered weird a few decades ago.
For me personally, I don't think my idiosyncracies, which I don't really hide, get too harshly judged. Maybe I have enough mainstream interests- football, rock music, drinking- to cover them, but more often I find the issue is just a lack of crossover interests. Especially with some women who have stereotypical interests- fashion, shopping, chart music, soaps/reality tv- I just can't hold a conversation, there's no common interests, rather than overt hostility.
It sounds arrogant, but I think the issue is often intelligence, smarter people usually trend towards individuality and nonconformity, less intelligent people are usually more conformist.
Original post by Mankytoes
It's funny that other people attack our society for the exact opposite, having too many eccentric hipsters.
You could also count nerd culture. I think we are coming back around. I'm pretty obsessed with A Song of Ice and Fire, for example, and I don't feel that much hostility. I feel like people having a passion for comic books, video games, things like that, are now more socially acceptable than they were twenty, thirty years ago.
You could also count nerd culture. I think we are coming back around. I'm pretty obsessed with A Song of Ice and Fire, for example, and I don't feel that much hostility. I feel like people having a passion for comic books, video games, things like that, are now more socially acceptable than they were twenty, thirty years ago.
Yeah but that's interesting, there's some comments on one of the articles I posted about it. It's almost like the Americanised 'nerds' 'jocks' etc. Nerd culture or hipsters are part of a group that is very conformist. There's nothing very nonconformist or eccentric about hipsters in my view, they are collectivists.
There are supposedly non conformist groups that are part of rigid, ordered categories now.
Original post by StrangeBanana
The girl's a chav, and an utterly stupid one at that. I'm neither pompous nor humourless on my tube journeys, especially when I'm with friends, but we can all agree that screaming at the top of your lungs is obnoxious and inconsiderate.
Chav, that's snobby. Why is it ok as a term? Humour is subjective. You and your middle class friends can have a laugh but she can't? Maybe some people find 'Oooo mai gawd' and the affected elongated vowels of the aspirational incredibly grating but I don't expect others would support us if we asked for those people ('bitches') to be 'knocked out'. Class and race a factor here.
Tories Conservativism
Original post by Little Popcorns
Tories Conservativism
The class struggle and repressive culture and the need to get position within society causes people to be obsessed with how they present themselves.This can make them very pompous and humourless, it place so much restriction on everything that eccentricity like this has to happen. If this girl lived in a different society that didn't insist on this stuff, she could have turned out much more balanced. It's the continual judgement, and obsession with stupid petty protocol and class judgement, not to mention hypocritical manners, that cause all this. Indirectly maybe.
That's off the top of my head and I paint with a broad brush.
Original post by SaucissonSecCy
Yeah but that's interesting, there's some comments on one of the articles I posted about it. It's almost like the Americanised 'nerds' 'jocks' etc. Nerd culture or hipsters are part of a group that is very conformist. There's nothing very nonconformist or eccentric about hipsters in my view, they are collectivists.
There are supposedly non conformist groups that are part of rigid, ordered categories now.
There are supposedly non conformist groups that are part of rigid, ordered categories now.
I guess we can only talk about our own experiences. In my experience, I don't know many people who actually fit these cliches. They exist, but they're the minority. I dip into nerd culture with some books, but I'm not interested in comic books, not massively into video games, etc. I can enjoy hard rock and metal without conforming to a metalhead cliche. Some people I know would be considered "jocks" generally, but then you find out they're obsessed with Star Trek. Real people aren't generally so easy to pidgeon hole. Trying to fit a pre existing cliche (like skater, goth, metalhead) is more something that people grow out of once they're out their teens. Honestly, I think some people like to view others in this simplistic way to feel better about what a special and unique person they are.
Eccentric means "a person of unconventional and slightly strange views or behaviour". Whether you like it or not, hipsters fit the definition. This is my point- people like the idea of eccentrics more than they actually like them.
Original post by Mankytoes
I guess we can only talk about our own experiences. In my experience, I don't know many people who actually fit these cliches. They exist, but they're the minority. I dip into nerd culture with some books, but I'm not interested in comic books, not massively into video games, etc. I can enjoy hard rock and metal without conforming to a metalhead cliche. Some people I know would be considered "jocks" generally, but then you find out they're obsessed with Star Trek. Real people aren't generally so easy to pidgeon hole. Trying to fit a pre existing cliche (like skater, goth, metalhead) is more something that people grow out of once they're out their teens. Honestly, I think some people like to view others in this simplistic way to feel better about what a special and unique person they are.
Eccentric means "a person of unconventional and slightly strange views or behaviour". Whether you like it or not, hipsters fit the definition. This is my point- people like the idea of eccentrics more than they actually like them.
Eccentric means "a person of unconventional and slightly strange views or behaviour". Whether you like it or not, hipsters fit the definition. This is my point- people like the idea of eccentrics more than they actually like them.
I will reply to both here
I agree hipsters are eccentric in differing from the mainstream, however hipster culture is actually fairly wide spread in young people these days, and they do do a lot of similar things. For example, hipster men often have beards, they listen to EDM music, ride fixie bikes, are into art, often vegan, get tattoos. The girls like to get short haircuts and dye their hair, or wear glasses, and things like skater dresses with doc martens or odd shoes. If you were not like that you would not be accepted or fit into "hipster culture." I know a lot because they are common in Sweden. Hipsters can be conformist amongst themselves
Original post by SaucissonSecCy
Chav, that's snobby. Why is it ok as a term? Humour is subjective. You and your middle class friends can have a laugh but she can't? Maybe some people find 'Oooo mai gawd' and the affected elongated vowels of the aspirational incredibly grating but I don't expect others would support us if we asked for those people ('bitches'
to be 'knocked out'. Class and race a factor here.
to be 'knocked out'. Class and race a factor here.Her behaviour was unacceptable. There is no debate to be had.
(edited 8 years ago)
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