if I get all the grades necessary, does one of my five uni choices have to accept me.
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Original post by Notoriety
A-Levels are harder than Access in terms of content. The problem with Access is that to max out on distinctions really only shows you're an AAA student (going off UCAS equiv, and really it's more BBB in terms of actual content).
For the most competitive law courses, you rather need something more or you could benefit from something more. That is where an A-Level comes in. But it is more sensible to do a 1-year A-Level alongside Access (which takes a whole lot of commitment, organisation and skill) rather than have 45 at distinction (basically AAA) achieved and then have an A-Level. By the time you're applying, you'd have no prediction/an unreliable prediction for the A-Level -- which is the problem of applying with Access in the same application cycle.
If OP is just going to Westminster anyway, the blindness of the Access prediction won't matter. Firstly, Westminster is not competitive. Secondly, they'd likely have all their Access grades in by Clearing.
For the most competitive law courses, you rather need something more or you could benefit from something more. That is where an A-Level comes in. But it is more sensible to do a 1-year A-Level alongside Access (which takes a whole lot of commitment, organisation and skill) rather than have 45 at distinction (basically AAA) achieved and then have an A-Level. By the time you're applying, you'd have no prediction/an unreliable prediction for the A-Level -- which is the problem of applying with Access in the same application cycle.
If OP is just going to Westminster anyway, the blindness of the Access prediction won't matter. Firstly, Westminster is not competitive. Secondly, they'd likely have all their Access grades in by Clearing.
Access courses are slightly higher than A levels, nevertheless it isn't lower by any means and in some cases more preferred, but the failure rate is too high in access courses, law has no specific subject requirements so access isn't a problem.
I'm just gonna take 3 A levels this September for a year because I want traditional qualifications alongside an access course, the versatility of my resume will be unique.
As having A btec level 2 in performing arts, a six month intensive access course, and 3 A levels in philosophy, drama and creative writing.
I will have a prediction for A levels as I will have my btec level 2 and access to higher education in law, I can probably get into a good uni with the access course alone let alone doing 3 A levels with, so I will have approximately 6 A levels that are very different and versatile to one another, having both a focused intensive course considered slightly higher than A levels, and the average traditional qualifications through a broad range of subjects.
Original post by Efron
Access courses are slightly higher than A levels,
No it isn't. Check the UCAS Tariff points.
Distinctions in AccessHE = 144 points
3 A* at A-level = 168 points
Have you actually checked entry requirements for "good unis" with an AccessHE alone?
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Original post by Doonesbury
Have you actually checked entry requirements for "good unis" with an AccessHE alone?
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Well the one that I'm doing which was told by my tutor to be slightly higher, as it is an intensive course rather than a year.
All the uni's said we accept access courses without A levels for law, UCL said that to me, but for other subjects because they have specific subject requirements then it is best to do A Levels, but it isn't for law.
Original post by Efron
I think it's the UK education authority that would not accept it by law if a student got all the grades but still didn't get accepted to one of their five choices in which they got the necessary grades to enter in.
Not true, every year you get straight A/A* grade students who have no university place simply because they applied to very competitive courses and unis and were unlucky enough to get rejected.
There is no law that guarantees a student a university place - you apply and hopefully get offers. If not, most people will just take a gap year and reapply.
Original post by Efron
Well the one that I'm doing which was told by my tutor to be slightly higher, as it is an intensive course rather than a year.
All the uni's said we accept access courses without A levels for law, UCL said that to me, but for other subjects because they have specific subject requirements then it is best to do A Levels, but it isn't for law.
All the uni's said we accept access courses without A levels for law, UCL said that to me, but for other subjects because they have specific subject requirements then it is best to do A Levels, but it isn't for law.
It's your choice to do an accelerated course. It doesn't attract more tariff points as a result.
And did you ask UCL if you meet their GCSE requirements too?
Original post by Doonesbury
It's your choice to do an accelerated course. It doesn't attract more tariff points as a result.
And did you ask UCL if you meet their GCSE requirements too?
And did you ask UCL if you meet their GCSE requirements too?
They said that they take specific circumstances if you haven't completed them, which I do have a personal circumstance as I had to leave my education because of my mothers illness, evan though I was doing well.
Either way I do have the equivalent of 4 A stars and universitys do not really look at GCSE's as much as A levels. If I prove myself with the Access course in law, and 3 A levels in Philosophy, English language, Drama, I doubt they will point fingers at me and tell me to do more or better GCSE's.
I emailed the Oxford law faculty and they didn't seem to highlight GCSE's at all, and I reckon if they didn't highlight it then most likely other healthy universities wouldn't apply pressure to it. Here I'll copy and paste there email for you.
Dear Efron,
The Law degree at Oxford does not require prospective students to have studied any specific subjects within their qualifications, so long as their qualifications meet the entrance requirements:https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses-listing/law-jurisprudence?wssl=1.*We don’t accept General Studies as a subject, which means we don’t accept the course called ‘General Studies’ or ‘Critical Thinking’ or any other form of generalised course that your school might offer.
Whilst we are unable to give personal advice on applications,*we would always encourage students to study those subjects they have academic enthusiasm for – and in which, therefore, they are likely to get the best marks.
There is no absolute requirement for particular grades at GCSE; although a competitive applicant would normally have a majority of As and A*s, this is by no means a barrier for entry. Also, when we look at GCSE results, we look at them in the context of the overall performance of the school or college where you studied. So if, for example, you didn’t get all As, but your results were among the best in your year group, that will be taken into account. Furthermore, if you feel that you underperformed at GCSE, we are always happy to take into account extenuating circumstances as long as there is more recent evidence of really strong academic performance at AS or A-level. You should talk about why in your personal statement, and it’s really helpful if your referee can mention it too.
*
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Efron
Access courses are slightly higher than A levels, nevertheless it isn't lower by any means and in some cases more preferred
45 distinctions is AAA. Some courses will accept 30 distinctions and some will require 45, even if A-Level reqs are A*AA+. That is not to say that an Access course's content is more challenging than A-Level or that less than 45 is as impressive as AAA or A*AA+ at A-Level; it simply factors in the steep learning curve Access students have and the general difficulty of performing well from beginning to end. The actual substance of the course is below that of A-Level. It is not preferred by anyone; the type of learner (i.e independent and mature) might be. I would say that a university would prefer the learner type who also studied A-Level.
but the failure rate is too high in access courses, law has no specific subject requirements so access isn't a problem.
Because there is a steep learning curve and Access is completed by learners who have usually left education with little success. The traits which caused them to fail first time usually linger when they retry, hence there being a high drop-out rate. Also the learners are busier than your typical A-Level student, and have to balance real-life obligations with this complicated course which promises employment and academic success several years down the line. Much better to go back to working in the office full time, and having a steady stream of income and immediate reward.
I'm just gonna take 3 A levels this September for a year because I want traditional qualifications alongside an access course, the versatility of my resume will be unique.
I would not advise taking 3 accelerated A-Levels. That will be a great challenge; people normally only do 1 or 2 concurrently. And if you bomb them you'll still have to put them on your UCAS.
so I will have approximately 6 A levels
No, you'll have an Access course and 3 A-Levels. They will not be considered as 6.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Notoriety
No, you'll have an Access course and 3 A-Levels. They will not be considered as 6.
Aproximately 6 as an access course is the equivalent of 3 A levels, access courses are not lower by any means, Universitys do not look at the ucas points and peaple have gone to Oxford and Cambridge with an access course alone, or having a btec level 3 extended diploma alone.
Original post by Efron
Aproximately 6 as an access course is the equivalent of 3 A levels, access courses are not lower by any means, Universitys do not look at the ucas points and peaple have gone to Oxford and Cambridge with an access course alone, or having a btec level 3 extended diploma alone.
You can check Unistats and say what percentage of students enrolled on Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, UCL, KCL, Durham, Notts, Bristol, Warwick, even Exeter have taken Access. It will be 1% or 0%, or was the last time I checked.
The only people I have worked with who've been rejected for 5 top-tier law schools are Access students; it is fairly common, which is why you've been advised to manage your expectations and aim for lower than Oxford. On here, there are Access students who've got into UCL, KCL and the likes ... after a decade in highly complicated and demanding professional work. You do not have that; you only have your previous qualifications, what you can rustle together for your personal statement, and the reference of someone used to sending students to the ex-poly. The odds are heavily against you.
Original post by Notoriety
I would not advise taking 3 accelerated A-Levels. That will be a great challenge; people normally only do 1 or 2 concurrently. And if you bomb them you'll still have to put them on your UCAS.
144% agree.
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Original post by Notoriety
You can check Unistats and say what percentage of students enrolled on Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, UCL, KCL, Durham, Notts, Bristol, Warwick, even Exeter have taken Access. It will be 1% or 0%, or was the last time I checked.
The only people I have worked with who've been rejected for 5 top-tier law schools are Access students; it is fairly common, which is why you've been advised to manage your expectations and aim for lower than Oxford. On here, there are Access students who've got into UCL, KCL and the likes ... after a decade in highly complicated and demanding professional work. You do not have that; you only have your previous qualifications, what you can rustle together for your personal statement, and the reference of someone used to sending students to the ex-poly. The odds are heavily against you.
The only people I have worked with who've been rejected for 5 top-tier law schools are Access students; it is fairly common, which is why you've been advised to manage your expectations and aim for lower than Oxford. On here, there are Access students who've got into UCL, KCL and the likes ... after a decade in highly complicated and demanding professional work. You do not have that; you only have your previous qualifications, what you can rustle together for your personal statement, and the reference of someone used to sending students to the ex-poly. The odds are heavily against you.
Original post by Notoriety
You can check Unistats and say what percentage of students enrolled on Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, UCL, KCL, Durham, Notts, Bristol, Warwick, even Exeter have taken Access. It will be 1% or 0%, or was the last time I checked.
The only people I have worked with who've been rejected for 5 top-tier law schools are Access students; it is fairly common, which is why you've been advised to manage your expectations and aim for lower than Oxford. On here, there are Access students who've got into UCL, KCL and the likes ... after a decade in highly complicated and demanding professional work. You do not have that; you only have your previous qualifications, what you can rustle together for your personal statement, and the reference of someone used to sending students to the ex-poly. The odds are heavily against you.
The only people I have worked with who've been rejected for 5 top-tier law schools are Access students; it is fairly common, which is why you've been advised to manage your expectations and aim for lower than Oxford. On here, there are Access students who've got into UCL, KCL and the likes ... after a decade in highly complicated and demanding professional work. You do not have that; you only have your previous qualifications, what you can rustle together for your personal statement, and the reference of someone used to sending students to the ex-poly. The odds are heavily against you.
The odds are not 1%, you are mistaken I know a girl who had a btec and went to Oxford to study psychology, it is a qualification on Oxford and ucl says that it makes no difference whether you do A levels or access as long as you get the grades. There are more people who get in with A levels simply because there are more people doing A levels, most school leavers go on to work rather than come back to education.
Furthermore I haven't been advised anything, because I'm doing 3 academic A levels anyway after I finish my access
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Efron
Aproximately 6 as an access course is the equivalent of 3 A levels, access courses are not lower by any means, Universitys do not look at the ucas points and peaple have gone to Oxford and Cambridge with an access course alone, or having a btec level 3 extended diploma alone.
I'd recommend learning how to spell words like 'universities' and 'people' before thinking of attending any university. Your confusion about the law stems from if you have an offer from a university and you actually achieve the requirements of the offer, they have to accept you because that is a binding contract. However that is only if any university actually gives you an offer in the first place, which they do not legally have to do at all; it's only if you have an offer that a contract is formed.
Thousands of people fail to get into university every year by getting 5 rejections (even when they have the standard grades for entry for each university they've applied to) and a lot of those people will have worked their asses off. Their options are to try to get into university through Clearing (no university has to legally take anyone through Clearing), or take a gap year and apply again in the next admissions cycle. A lot of universities, including LSE, state that either having or being predicted the standard grades for entry does not guarantee a place at all. There is no UCAS requirement or law that at least 1 of your 5 choices has to give you an offer.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Efron
The odds are not 1%, you are mistaken I know a girl who had a btec and went to Oxford to study psychology, it is a qualification on Oxford and ucl says that it makes no difference whether you do A levels or access as long as you get the grades. There are more people who get in with A levels simply because there are more people doing A levels, most school leavers go on to work rather than come back to education.
Furthermore I haven't been advised anything, because I'm doing 3 academic A levels anyway alongside my access
Furthermore I haven't been advised anything, because I'm doing 3 academic A levels anyway alongside my access
I never said your odds are 1%. I said the percentage of people enrolled at Oxford or Cambridge ... will be 0% or 1%. In fact, when I last checked I think Cambridge was 1% and Oxford was 0%. Now Oxford is 0% and Cambridge is 0%. That heavily suggests that Access students do not have an easy ride to Oxbridge, even if one or two students manage to get in every year. There's an exception to every rule.
I think I have given you enough information here. If you have any questions, do tag me.
Original post by Efron
The odds are not 1%, you are mistaken I know a girl who had a btec and went to Oxford to study psychology
@Notoriety
Oxford Access HE offers (and acceptances) between 2011 and 2016 without any other Level 3 qualification = zero
(This is for the entire university, not specifically Law)
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/how_many_students_have_been_acce#incoming-890633
Original post by Doonesbury
@Notoriety
Oxford Access HE offers (and acceptances) between 2011 and 2016 without any other Level 3 qualification = zero
(This is for the entire university, not specifically Law)
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/how_many_students_have_been_acce#incoming-890633
Oxford Access HE offers (and acceptances) between 2011 and 2016 without any other Level 3 qualification = zero
(This is for the entire university, not specifically Law)
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/how_many_students_have_been_acce#incoming-890633
Oh my ... I never expected it to be that bad!
Thank you for sharing that.
If the analysis is extended to include those with other Level 3 qualifications in addition to Access to HE (e.g. at least 1 A-level):
It's just one or 2 per year. So rather exceptional.
@Notoriety @Efron
It's just one or 2 per year. So rather exceptional.
@Notoriety @Efron
Original post by Doonesbury
@Notoriety
Oxford Access HE offers (and acceptances) between 2011 and 2016 without any other Level 3 qualification = zero
(This is for the entire university, not specifically Law)
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/how_many_students_have_been_acce#incoming-890633
Oxford Access HE offers (and acceptances) between 2011 and 2016 without any other Level 3 qualification = zero
(This is for the entire university, not specifically Law)
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/how_many_students_have_been_acce#incoming-890633
But it's still possible but rare, same goes for btec, nevertheless UCL accepts it as I have contacted them and asked.
But Oxford is just a universal exception, I'm still doing 3 A levels this September alongside an access course.
Original post by Notoriety
Oh my ... I never expected it to be that bad!
Thank you for sharing that.
Thank you for sharing that.
Cambridge is "better":
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/306959/response/752046/attach/2/FOI%202015%20437%20Slingsby%20response%20letter%20and%20data.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1
Original post by Efron
I'm still doing 3 accelerated A levels this September alongside an access course.
Which is likely to be 1 or 2 too many to do well. It's neither necessary nor desirable.
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