Grandma mistakenly booked into all-male jail, staff thought she was transgender
Scroll to see replies
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
Ok, ignoring that "real woman" is a transphobic remark (suggesting that trans women aren't real...),
Ok, ignoring that "real woman" is a transphobic remark (suggesting that trans women aren't real...),
In your opinion maybe.
And where did one suggest they don't exist? I don't recall making any such suggestion and you'd do well to apologise for lying on that count.
you don't need to be trans to experience the results of transphobia on a day to day basis because discrimination like this affects those who are perceived as being in that group, regardless of whether they are or not - so transphobia also affects GNC cis people as well
You could just say normal people instead of these utterly ridiculous little adjectives.
Original post by Napp
In your opinion maybe.
And where did one suggest they don't exist? I don't recall making any such suggestion and you'd do well to apologise for lying on that count.
You could just say normal people instead of these utterly ridiculous little adjectives.
And where did one suggest they don't exist? I don't recall making any such suggestion and you'd do well to apologise for lying on that count.
You could just say normal people instead of these utterly ridiculous little adjectives.
No, referring to cis people (cis is not a ridiculous adjective, it's the antonym of trans) as real and normal, implying then that trans people are fake or abnormal, is transphobic. Nor did I lie there, you referred to the woman in the story as a real woman, with the obvious implication being that trans women aren't real women...
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
No, referring to cis people (cis is not a ridiculous adjective, it's the antonym of trans) as real and normal, implying then that trans people are fake or abnormal, is transphobic.
I am perfectly aware of what it means but nevertheless it is still ridiculous. If trans people don't want to be called ******* or what not as they consider it offensive then i'd ask you stop referring to me as "cis", period.
Normal simply means 'conforming to a standard: usual, typical or expected' ergo if you're born with a vagina and identifying as a woman is normal as the vast majority of people do that. Getting all pissy at being abnormal [which doesnt necessarily imply a negative connotation] is simply pety and frankly rather whiny in this instance. It does little more than validate the opinions of people who say that certain people are looking to get offended and get their knickers in a twist.
Equally why do you all simply stick phobic on the end of any and every word you can lay your hands on? It's really getting a little much now, surely?
Original post by Napp
I am perfectly aware of what it means but nevertheless it is still ridiculous. If trans people don't want to be called t*****s or what not as they consider it offensive then i'd ask you stop referring to me as "cis", period.
The two are not comparable, and any reasonable person would know that. T***** is a slur with a long history, cis is merely a Latin prefix meaning "on the same side of" (as opposed to trans: "on the opposite side of") and with nothing else behind it. It's a completely necessary adjective - as demonstrated in the post you took objection to - GNC cis people are people who don't abide by traditional gender standards for their assigned at birth gender, but identify with it, but trans people can be gender non-conforming as well - they're not an example of how transphobia affects non trans people as well, the harassment GNC cis people face is.
Normal simply means 'conforming to a standard: usual, typical or expected' ergo if you're born with a vagina and identifying as a woman is normal as the vast majority of people do that. Getting all pissy at being abnormal [which doesnt necessarily imply a negative connotation] is simply pety and frankly rather whiny in this instance
Err no, the notion that some one is abnormal is intended to imply negative connotations. Trans people are a rather small minority (estimates are generally in the 0.5-1% range) and by sheer numbers cis people are the usual state of affairs, but similarly we don't refer to ginger people (ca 2% of global population) or northern Irish people (ca. 3% of UK population) as abnormal - suggesting someone is abnormal is intended to be degrading.
Equally why do you all simply stick phobic on the end of any and every word you can lay your hands on? It's really getting a little much now, surely?
Phobic/Phobia is used in this situation to refer to an extreme aversion to, fear of or hatred of something. So applied to transphobia it's an extreme aversion to, fear of or hatred of trans people. Unless you want to pretend that no-one hates or fears trans people (despite most of the society sub forum on here to the immediate contrary), no it's not getting "too much", because the discrimination exists to be described
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
No, referring to cis people (cis is not a ridiculous adjective, it's the antonym of trans) as real and normal, implying then that trans people are fake or abnormal, is transphobic. Nor did I lie there, you referred to the woman in the story as a real woman, with the obvious implication being that trans women aren't real women...
Hmm. Inventing a language and then attempting to bully the rest of us to use it under threat of being called transphobic is utterly ridiculous and certainly does not help your cause. I shall continue to call women women and men men, whether they dress up as the opposite sex or not.
Speaking personally, I am not transphopbic, merely transactivistphobic and bullyphobic.
Original post by Good bloke
Hmm. Inventing a language and then attempting to bully the rest of us to use it under threat of being called transphobic is utterly ridiculous and certainly does not help your cause. I shall continue to call women women and men men, whether they dress up as the opposite sex or not.
Speaking personally, I am not transphopbic, merely transactivistphobic and bullyphobic.
Speaking personally, I am not transphopbic, merely transactivistphobic and bullyphobic.
Sweet, I invented Latin? Come at me linguistic scholars.
Original post by Napp
I am perfectly aware of what it means but nevertheless it is still ridiculous. If trans people don't want to be called trannies or what not as they consider it offensive then i'd ask you stop referring to me as "cis", period.
Normal simply means 'conforming to a standard: usual, typical or expected' ergo if you're born with a vagina and identifying as a woman is normal as the vast majority of people do that. Getting all pissy at being abnormal [which doesnt necessarily imply a negative connotation] is simply pety and frankly rather whiny in this instance. It does little more than validate the opinions of people who say that certain people are looking to get offended and get their knickers in a twist.
Equally why do you all simply stick phobic on the end of any and every word you can lay your hands on? It's really getting a little much now, surely?
Normal simply means 'conforming to a standard: usual, typical or expected' ergo if you're born with a vagina and identifying as a woman is normal as the vast majority of people do that. Getting all pissy at being abnormal [which doesnt necessarily imply a negative connotation] is simply pety and frankly rather whiny in this instance. It does little more than validate the opinions of people who say that certain people are looking to get offended and get their knickers in a twist.
Equally why do you all simply stick phobic on the end of any and every word you can lay your hands on? It's really getting a little much now, surely?
Maybe he’s Napphobic?
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
Sweet, I invented Latin? Come at me linguistic scholars.
Cis, in Latin, means 'on this side' or 'on the near side'. It certainly does not mean 'same' (which is translated by 'idem'). It implies a crossing and can be most famously seen in the names of Cisapline Gaul (this side of the Alps for the Romans) and Transalpine Gaul (the far side of the Alps).
So, your use of cis, in fact, indicates that a cisperson is a person who has not yet made a transition, not one who is not going to make a transition. hence, should only be used for pre-trans people and not for the rest of us. You merely emphasise that women are women and that men are men and that trans people are different.
Trying to be clever in your bullying is a trap for the unwary.
Why did the nurse presume she had male parts? Women of that age take HRT for obvious reasons, so this seems bizarre. It seems more like a story from The Onion.
Original post by Good bloke
Cis, in Latin, means 'on this side' or 'on the near side'. It certainly does not mean 'same' (which is translated by 'idem'
. It implies a crossing and can be most famously seen in the names of Cisapline Gaul (this side of the Alps for the Romans) and Transalpine Gaul (the far side of the Alps).
So, your use of cis, in fact, indicates that a cisperson is a person who has not yet made a transition, not one who is not going to make a transition. hence, should only be used for pre-trans people and not for the rest of us. You merely emphasise that women are women and that men are men and that trans people are different.
Trying to be clever in your bullying is a trap for the unwary.
. It implies a crossing and can be most famously seen in the names of Cisapline Gaul (this side of the Alps for the Romans) and Transalpine Gaul (the far side of the Alps).So, your use of cis, in fact, indicates that a cisperson is a person who has not yet made a transition, not one who is not going to make a transition. hence, should only be used for pre-trans people and not for the rest of us. You merely emphasise that women are women and that men are men and that trans people are different.
Trying to be clever in your bullying is a trap for the unwary.
What utter nonsense. Cis doesn't mean not yet to transition, it's used in reference to experienced gender vs assigned gender across the binary imposed in law (the binary doesn't really exist, there's a far better case for infinite sexes than 2 since sex is a continuum but that's another discussion) - with trans people their experienced gender is opposite to their assigned one (as in trans-2-butene, where the methyl groups are on opposite sides of the double bond when viewed as a 3D structure) while cis people have their experienced gender the same as their assigned one (as in cis-2-butene, where the methyl groups are on the same side of the double bond when viewed as a 3D structure).
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
What utter nonsense. Cis doesn't mean not yet to transition, it's used in reference to experienced gender vs assigned gender across the binary imposed in law (the binary doesn't really exist, there's a far better case for infinite sexes than 2 since sex is a continuum but that's another discussion) - with trans people their experienced gender is opposite to their assigned one (as in trans-2-butene, where the methyl groups are on opposite sides of the double bond when viewed as a 3D structure) while cis people have their experienced gender the same as their assigned one (as in cis-2-butene, where the methyl groups are on the same side of the double bond when viewed as a 3D structure).
We all know how it is used. It is used to bully your opposition into submission. That doesn't mean that you have the meanings right - you don't, and this appears (to judge by your wriggling) to be an embarrassing revelation. It means something you don't want it to mean, which, since you and your fellow-travellers won't change your usage, means you are doomed to continue making the same gaffe.
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
The two are not comparable, and any reasonable person would know that
Please stop presenting your opinion as fact, it isnt.
. T***** is a slur with a long history,
And i am taking you reffering to normal people as 'cis' as a slur. You can't complain about it only going one way.
cis is merely a Latin prefix meaning "on the same side of" (as opposed to trans: "on the opposite side of"
and with nothing else behind it. It's a completely necessary adjective - as demonstrated in the post you took objection to - Please stop attempting to appear smart by explaining the derivation of the word, we all did Latin and we all know. You are simply coming across as an ass by putting it in text form, especially when you know exactly what i mean.
GNC cis people are people who don't abide by traditional gender standards for their assigned at birth gender, but identify with it, but trans people can be gender non-conforming as well - they're not an example of how transphobia affects non trans people as well, the harassment GNC cis people face is.
T***** and what not [no slur intended but since you insist on using the term cis i will use this, for equalities sake] can identify with whatever they damn well please. I could give not a single solitary **** if they identify as male, female or the sun. What I am objecting to is your attempt to ram your quaint ideology down my throat. If you want people to respect your position then you should extend that same curtesy to others and not be a hypocrite.
Err no, the notion that some one is abnormal is intended to imply negative connotations. Trans people are a rather small minority (estimates are generally in the 0.5-1% range) and by sheer numbers cis people are the usual state of affairs, but similarly we don't refer to ginger people (ca 2% of global population) or northern Irish people (ca. 3% of UK population) as abnormal - suggesting someone is abnormal is intended to be degrading.
Nill point.
If you wish to refer to those groups as abnormal you are perfectly welcome to but seeing as we arent discussing them i'd kindly ask you to not make another false equivalence between them. Especially given as being ginger or irish is in no way, shape or form the same as being a transexual.
Phobic/Phobia is used in this situation to refer to an extreme aversion to, fear of or hatred of something. So applied to transphobia it's an extreme aversion to, fear of or hatred of trans people. Unless you want to pretend that no-one hates or fears trans people (despite most of the society sub forum on here to the immediate contrary), no it's not getting "too much", because the discrimination exists to be described
Once again why are you attempting to explain common suffixes to me?
I made no comment on people opinion about this group but given that near enough every adjective appears to have a corresponding "phobia" attached to it now it would seem to one to have thoroughly stripped it of all meaning. Especially when [since you mentioned other users comments] few seem to have expressed any "fear and/or hatred" for transexuals as opposed to not wanting this aberrant ideology thrust upon them. Once again, you are entitled to support that particular view point but you cannot at the same time start whining about an opposing one without making an utter mockery of your starting position. It's one or the other, you can't have both.
Original post by Good bloke
Hmm. Inventing a language and then attempting to bully the rest of us to use it under threat of being called transphobic is utterly ridiculous and certainly does not help your cause. I shall continue to call women women and men men, whether they dress up as the opposite sex or not.
Speaking personally, I am not transphopbic, merely transactivistphobic and bullyphobic.
Speaking personally, I am not transphopbic, merely transactivistphobic and bullyphobic.
Hear hear!
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
Ok, ignoring that "real woman" is a transphobic remark (suggesting that trans women aren't real...), you don't need to be trans to experience the results of transphobia on a day to day basis because discrimination like this affects those who are perceived as being in that group, regardless of whether they are or not - so transphobia also affects GNC cis people as well
1.
"-phobic" suggests fear. Reluctance to call a man a woman based on an understanding of biology and genetics is not transphobia.
Mmmm, doublethink.
If it hadn't been for the likes of Stiff Little Fingers and their specious attempts to bully the rest of us the prison staff would not have had the opportunity to mistreat this woman in this way.
@Stiff Little Fingers i love you for every single point youre making hello
Original post by todorokishouto
trans women r women !!!!!!!
Only if you subscribe to this new age sophistry that gender is a choice.
die mad !!!!!!!!
eh?
Original post by Napp
waffling
A) stop using slurs. B) Cis is not a slur, it's a qualification indicating that a person's experienced gender matches their assigned one, and your lack of understanding about the term is precisely why I explained it's meaning to you, I gave benefit of the doubt and assumed lack of understanding about the subject rather than wilful ignorance
Original post by Tootles
Mmmm, doublethink.
1.
"-phobic" suggests fear. Reluctance to call a man a woman based on an understanding of biology and genetics is not transphobia.
2.
Trans women are real. They're real men.
Mmmm, doublethink.
Well no, phobia also means aversion or hatred, and transphobes clearly do hate trans people.
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
A) stop using slurs.
Only when you stop using them? What kind of ideology makes you think you can try and offend others and not expect it in return?
B) Cis is not a slur,
You don't get to make that decision dear. If you take ****** as a slur im well within my rights to take your use of cis as a slur.
it's a qualification indicating that a person's experienced gender matches their assigned one,
again, stop presenting your opinion as gospel fact.
and your lack of understanding about the term is precisely why I explained it's meaning to you, I gave benefit of the doubt and assumed lack of understanding about the subject rather than wilful ignorance
Wrong on both counts i'm afraid. then again i guess its better than blind rank hypocrisy of the worst order.
Well no, phobia also means aversion or hatred, and transphobes clearly do hate trans people.
Which bit of stop trying to explain [poorly i might add] these words did you miss? Especially when i literally just said that.
I think its you who is being willfully ignorant, or just stupid, if you cant read what i wrote which was in specific regard to the comments i have perosnally seen in said section.
Quick Reply
Related discussions
- Worried about BRCA gene and don’t know if I’m eligible for testing
- Nervous about having a male driving instructor
- Confused about my gender identity
- worried about BRCA gene and don’t know if I’m eligible for testing
- NHS trust says transgender milk just as good for babies as normal milk
- I feel like I can't talk to my parents.
- i need friends
- withdrawn from university due to non payment of tuition fees
- Am i a bad gf?
- Gender equality struggles? misogyny? something like that
- Dating with kids help! 10 year age gap
- Dating as a Trans Person
- Should I give up my social housing and go private?
- Most overrated Uni in general in the uk
- Weird male worker at the train station
- Our country's justice system is an ABSOLUTE joke!
- Is there anything more attractive than a guy who takes mirror selfies?
- Toxic work situation or am I overreacting
- Thoughts on Abortion?
- moved out and trouble with school
Latest
Trending
Last reply 3 days ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 3 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 3 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Research Rankings of universities if you add Research Quality & Intensity percentagesLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?Trending
Last reply 3 days ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 3 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 3 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Research Rankings of universities if you add Research Quality & Intensity percentagesLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?
