The 'Brexit Meaningful Vote' Thread - May loses 432-202

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This entire fiasco has symbolised 'by hook or by crook' to the extreme.

Yes, but although I'm a Remainer, I feel frustrated with the attitude of a lot of the MPs who are saying they are voting against the May deal this evening, the reasons they give are often incorrect or spurious. The fact is, if we are leaving, as seems to be inevitable now, we need a deal. The one in front of MPs is the best that can be gotten given the inevitable difficulties, particularly the Irish border. The DUP are being particularly cynical and obstructive - it's horrible listening to their half truths and obvious lies. Labour appear to be opposing just for the sake of it and without reference to the national interest.

It might be that the big vote against tonight will result in a second referendum, or a prolonging of the Article 50 period to give more time to negotiate, but it might just as easily lead to a crash out. There isn't really any evidence that the EU will be willing to do any more negotiating.

I personally hope there will be another referendum, but it will mean years of further uncertainty and political chaos, which is itself very damaging.

Now I am forced to listen to the ludicrous Brexiteer Owen Paterson claiming that a 52:48 win was 'overwhelming' and that to review it is 'treachery'. :rolleyes:

Reply 81

Burton Bridge

Original post by Dez

The people voted in an advisory referendum that they (well, 52% of them) believe the UK should not be a member of the European Union. That's all the ballot paper can tell you. You cannot infer from that whether the voters wished the UK to leave with a deal or without. Opinion polls conducted since then make it clear that neither a no-deal Brexit nor May's deal enjoy a majority of public support.

Not true nothing about that is true, it was not an advisory referendum at all. You cannot reinvent history just because it suits your views better.

The question put to the British people was extremely clear and reforming the EU was clearly spoken about, remaining as it was before was never an option. Listen for yourself

https://youtu.be/w87GNWJHtFM

We opted to leave the club and trade with the rest of the world. It was clear cut. I can't believe you are bringing opinion polls into this, they are known to be highly accurate arnt they?

You must of lived though an alternate reality

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 82

Fullofsurprises

Original post by Burton Bridge

Not true nothing about that is true, it was not an advisory referendum at all. You cannot reinvent history just because it suits your views better.

The question put to the British people was extremely clear and reforming the EU was clearly spoken about, remaining as it was before was never an option. Listen for yourself

https://youtu.be/w87GNWJHtFM

We opted to leave and make trade Outside of Europe. That was the vote

You may believe that was the vote, but none of that was on the ballot paper - it was a simple question.

Reply 83

MrSuavetopia

Original post by Burton Bridge

Not true nothing about that is true, it was not an advisory referendum at all. You cannot reinvent history just because it suits your views better.

I mean, it was. Go ahead and read the EU Referendum Act. There is no provision that results needed to be implemented. It was a consultative/pre-legislative referendum.

Reply 84

Dez

Original post by Burton Bridge

Not true nothing about that is true, it was not an advisory referendum at all. You cannot reinvent history just because it suits your views better.

The EU Referendum Act makes it abundantly clear that the referendum was not legally binding, i.e. advisory only.

Original post by Burton Bridge

The question put to the British people was extremely clear and reforming the EU was clearly spoken about, remaining as it was before was never an option. Listen for yourself

The ballot did not mention anything about EU reform. Yes, it was spoken about but that's kinda irrelevant to the point you were originally making, so I don't know why you're bringing this up.

Original post by Burton Bridge

We opted to leave the club and trade with the rest of the world. It was clear cut.

Why would you trade with countries that are hundreds of miles away instead of trading with your next-door neighbours? When your fridge is empty do you drive from Burton to Salisbury and back in order to visit Tesco?

Reply 85

Burton Bridge

Original post by SHallowvale

"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

That was the question. The referendum did not specify anything on the benefits of membership, membership of the customs union or single market, whether we should leave with a deal or no deal. Nothing.

The remain camp and the leave camp spent months explaining these issues to the British people.

Reply 86

hiroktherock

Original post by paul514

Fixed for you.

why this british select brexit, now brexit not acceptable, i don't know " british peoples select brexit blindly!😀

Reply 87

Fullofsurprises

Original post by Burton Bridge

The remain camp and the leave camp spent months explaining these issues to the British people.

So 'explaining' was what Leave were doing was it then? Not repeatedly and blatantly lying then.

Reply 88

Burton Bridge

Original post by Dez

The EU Referendum Act makes it abundantly clear that the referendum was not legally binding, i.e. advisory only.

The ballot did not mention anything about EU reform. Yes, it was spoken about but that's kinda irrelevant to the point you were originally making, so I don't know why you're bringing this up.

Why would you trade with countries that are hundreds of miles away instead of trading with your next-door neighbours? When your fridge is empty do you drive from Burton to Salisbury and back in order to visit Tesco?

It's not irrelevant at all, your trying to make out that there is no mandate for leaving the EU without a deal. Apprantly we never knew leaving the EU would mean operating outside of the EU trade deals, this is clearly not true. It is simply a lie, we was informed.

As for why trade with countries miles away, we do this already. Could I just put a little idea out there, may be we start buying locally and actually start growing our own economy again? Maybe if we stop our obsession with large corporate brandings where profits get hidden away in off shore bankacounnts the country might actually start making money again.

Reply 89

Burton Bridge

Original post by Fullofsurprises

So 'explaining' was what Leave were doing was it then? Not repeatedly and blatantly lying then.

Not particularly, certainly no more than remain was doing. 6 of one half a dozen of the other as the old saying goes

Reply 90

Darren Beattie

In an ideal world I wouldn’t mind if my country hit the eject button before this jet smashes into a cliff face with the force of an atomic warhead.
That being said if public opinion polls are to be trusted which is becoming less likely each year then damage control seems the way forward . An end to Brexit would appear to be the end to the extreme fiscal uncertainty however it’s still anyone’s game on the season premier episode of The UK Season 19

Reply 91

Burton Bridge

Original post by MrDystopia

I mean, it was. Go ahead and read the EU Referendum Act. There is no provision that results needed to be implemented. It was a consultative/pre-legislative referendum.

So you actually think the referendum carried no weight, In which case why have it?

Reply 92

Dez

Original post by Burton Bridge

Prior to the vote, the Brexit campaigners' main message on trade was that we would remain a part of the EFTA post-Brexit (Norway model). There was no major campaign group calling for a no-deal Brexit. Of course after the vote the EU said it would stipulate free movement if we were to join EFTA, so a lot of Brexiteers suddenly forgot about that promise. Almost like they didn't actually care about trade/economy at all…

Original post by Burton Bridge

As for why trade with countries miles away, we do this already. Could I just put a little idea out there, may be we start buying locally and actually start growing our own economy again? Maybe if we stop our obsession with large corporate brandings where profits get hidden away in off shore bankacounnts the country might actually start making money again.

So you think we should rebuild the UK's farming and manufacturing sectors, and start competing with US, China, Taiwan etc.? And somehow leaving the EU, which has a massive logistical network with direct links to the UK, is the best way to go about this?

Reply 93

Burton Bridge

Personally I'd like fly you in a plane to a cliff front. And just before we hit eject I'd say 'that's a cliff edge, me duck if we hit that we die! We are not falling off a cliff edge, the fact older people whom remember life pre EU are not running around scared stiff shows this'

Reply 94

Darren Beattie

Original post by Burton Bridge

Yes but then again the world is in a very different place in nearly every aspect compared to back then.

Reply 95

mojojojo101

How awesome is it that during this time of political and democratic turmoil that, maybe, generously, 20% of MPs have decided to turn up and actually take part, even in some token sense, in the beate in the HoC.

What a fabulous demonstration of where the core of British democracy lies.

Reply 96

Fullofsurprises

Original post by Burton Bridge

Not particularly, certainly no more than remain was doing. 6 of one half a dozen of the other as the old saying goes

It most definitely wasn't. The Leave campaign bombarded the British public with 1bn facebook ads depicting completely false claims. The Remain campaign did nothing of that kind.

Reply 97

Fullofsurprises

Original post by mojojojo101

A lot more will be joining later as the debate moves towards H-Hour, but yes, the Commons is not over-full given how important this is. The problem is that they are all very familiar with the arguments and in a way, who can blame intelligent people for not wanting to sit through the sort of DUP ******** currently being spouted?

Reply 98

Burton Bridge

Not true mate, remain lost because they ran a negative campaign. I sometimes think I could of made a more positive arugement tkfor remain than they did.

Leave campaign lead a positive campaign to which struck a cord with people better. Both sides lied and stretched the truth